[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
Michael D. Weisner
mweisner at ebsmed.com
Thu Nov 4 15:24:33 EDT 2010
Ben,
I mostly fly electric RC planes now, although I have an electric RC
sailboat. It used to be fun to sail it behind my R22 when the seas were
very calm.
One of our club Grummanites has a very large carrier that he "sails" on Lake
Ronkonkoma (on LI), I have done touch and goes on the deck with a small
ducted fan "jet" for some great photos. Not enough room for landing (no
arrester wire either) or taking off for these underpowered planes. If I can
find the photos I will post to the list (real photos, need to scan them in
someday). I only wish that we had videos but we were too far ahead of the
technology (before battery powered camcorders).
Mike
s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
Nissequogue River, NY
From: "BenCittadino" Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:58 PM
>
> MIke;
>
> I love that model. How did you come across it? Very impressive. Are you a
> modeler?
>
> BenC
>
> R22MikeW wrote:
>>
>> Ben,
>>
>> Most life lines are too low anyway to keep a 6' adult on board.
>>
>> Now, how about increasing the width of the walkway to accommodate a
>> walker
>> ...
>>
>> Mike
>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>
>> From: "BenCittadino" Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:12 PM
>>>
>>> Rummy & Dave;
>>>
>>> I remember being taught in the USN to NEVER sit upon, lean against, or
>>> even
>>> touch the life line railings aboard ship. The only time anyone should
>>> touch
>>> them is when maintaining or repairing them. The idea is they are only
>>> there
>>> as a last resort and if you have to grab them you shouldn't be out there
>>> to
>>> begin with.
>>>
>>> I would never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you from
>>> going overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the money,
>>> but
>>> remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain, or
>>> reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really
>>> need
>>> them.
>>>
>>> BenC
>>> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no railings)
>>>
>>> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>> Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just my
>>>> 2
>>>> cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
>>>>
>>>> Rummy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> Rummy, I think the railings are okay. They make great hangers for the
>>>> fenders at the dock. [?]
>>>> I could do without them, but my wife likes them. They are handy to
>>>> lean
>>>> against a little, for balance, when cleaning or doing various chores
>>>> about
>>>> the boat.
>>>> When under sail, actually they don't get in the way or interfere with
>>>> the
>>>> 175. They virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go
>>>> in
>>>> further anyway.
>>>> The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process of
>>>> tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to
>>>> go
>>>> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it
>>>> remotely.
>>>> However, I would be interested in the views of others that have rails.
>>>> I
>>>> was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be persuaded
>>>> either
>>>> way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an unlikely
>>>> event).
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> The fact that you have the side railings makes your boat a completely
>>>>> different animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but I
>>>>> can
>>>>> imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for
>>>> advice
>>>>> from
>>>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't like them on a 22
>>>>> foot
>>>>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a larger boat, but I
>>>>> understand
>>>>> why they might be needed. Your inability to make the 175 work for
>>>>> you
>>>>> is
>>>>> directly related to the railings. You might want to consider
>>>>> replacing
>>>>> your
>>>>> furling drum with one that allows a complete sail change on the
>>>>> fly,
>>>>> unlike
>>>>> the GB furler.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee, thanks for your comments. I may give you a call, as I will
>>>>> have
>>>> to
>>>>> decide which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the 175
>>>>> I
>>>>> have
>>>>> been using. Last weekend the wind was mild but steady--about 5 mph.
>>>>> Using
>>>>> the full 175 was very pleasant. But in gusty or changeable winds
>>>>> (our
>>>>> most
>>>>> common lake condition), and where sailing close hauled is important,
>>>>> the
>>>>> 175
>>>>> is simply too much sail area too far forward, and even when largely
>>>>> furled,
>>>>> the boat doesn't point well--worse than all the other boats that I
>>>>> see.
>>>>> Unless the genoa is furled way in, I don't see how I could lead the
>>>> sheets
>>>>> through the inner guides on the deck, inside the shrouds. I was
>>>> surprised
>>>>> that you mentioned that the smaller genoa would be closer to the
>>>>> deck.
>>>> I
>>>>> haven't seen one, but I assumed that the 130/140/150 sizes would
>>>>> simply
>>>> be
>>>>> made in their smaller sizes by shortening or raising the foot of the
>>>> sail.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also use my full 175 less than 20% of the time, and when I am on a
>>>> reach
>>>>> in mild weather conditions, it is a very nice sail. So if you can
>>>>> keep
>>>> a
>>>>> decent sail shape and still furl it way in for other conditions and
>>>>> re-route
>>>>> the sheets to one of the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>>>>> multi-purpose compromise for a sail. 80% of the time, I have the
>>>>> genoa
>>>>> furled in to greater or lesser degrees, and I am telling myself that
>>>> next
>>>>> time I am going to have a smaller sail.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have the steel side rails, which are very convenient, but the
>>>>> sheets
>>>>> do often catch between the rails and the stays on tacking, and I
>>>>> have
>>>>> to
>>>>> go
>>>>> forward and free them up. This is avoided by furling in
>>>>> substantially
>>>>> just
>>>>> before tacking, and then letting the sail back out, but a smaller
>>>>> sail
>>>>> would
>>>>> be just that much more convenient.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33 PM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Dave,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "I have never
>>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake."
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer to the
>>>>> > wind
>>>>> as
>>>>> > much as re-routing your sheets. You still won't be able to pull
>>>>> > your
>>>>> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your boat if your
>>>>> > sheets
>>>>> > are run outside of the outer shroud.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as tight as a
>>>> smaller
>>>>> > Genoa. A smaller Genoa won't have as much rolled-up bulk around
>>>>> the
>>>>> > furler and the sail will be closer to the deck, which will
>>>>> > probably
>>>>> > improve performance slightly if you're on a close reach.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller Genoa is because I
>>>>> > use
>>>> the
>>>>> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the time. When I do use the full
>>>> 175% I
>>>>> > swear I'll never go with anything smaller.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss upwind
>>>> performance.
>>>>> > 202.476.5369
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Good luck!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Lee
>>>>> > 1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>>>>> > Kent Island, MD
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> > Rhodes22Dave
>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
>>>>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Interesting. I will try this. I also thought that re-routing the
>>>> genoa
>>>>> > sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught. I have
>>>> never
>>>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake. I can do
>>>>> > a
>>>>> > little
>>>>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail
>>>> area--but
>>>>> > at a
>>>>> > cost of sail shape with all the furling. I may get a second R22
>>>>> and
>>>> am
>>>>> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending
>>>>> > jib.
>>>>> > But
>>>>> > what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
>>>>> > Dave
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend,
>>>>> > > and
>>>>> > > I
>>>>> > want
>>>>> > > to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally"
>>>>> re-routing
>>>> the
>>>>> > > Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for
>>>>> > > better
>>>>> > upwind
>>>>> > > sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but
>>>>> I
>>>> was
>>>>> > > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't
>>>>> let
>>>>> the
>>>>> > > Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt
>>>>> > > like
>>>> I
>>>>> > > could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new
>>>>> route
>>>> for
>>>>> > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in
>>>>> the
>>>>> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > BenCittadino
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > __________________________________________________
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > View this message in context:
>>>>> > http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
>>>>> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>> archives
>>>>> > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>> archives
>>>>> go
>>>>> > to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>
>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>> archives
>>>> go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30134738.html
>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
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>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30135129.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
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