[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

Rhodes22Dave Rhodes22Dave at gmail.com
Thu Oct 28 01:14:58 EDT 2010 

I'm glad to learn there is another R22 not too far away, and I've just
learned of yet another one on Lake Travis, besides my 2001 R22.  Sometime
this winter I will be taking delivery of a new 2010 model that I have
ordered from Stan.

I'd enjoy seeing yours sometime.  Did you get a new one four years ago, or a
refurbished older one?  We can compare notes on experiences including with
the options we have on our boats.

Did you have a particular reason for electing the 130 over, say, a 140?  I
ordered a new Rhodes 22 today and have decided to go smaller than the 175,
but haven't yet decided how much smaller for our weather and lake
conditions.  I guess if I might want to add a UPS or other foresail, I
should consider asking Stan to add an extra halyard and hardware--besides
for what is already there for the furling Genoa.  But since I am not racing,
I am not convinced that I need an extra sail.  I am already used to having
the slowest boat over 20 feet on the lake, as far as I can tell.  It doesn't
hurt enjoying the wine and cheese near sunset, at all.  I was an
intercollegiate sailboat racer.  I retired from that decades ago.

Anyone who wants to see my R22 can find it in Slip D-2 at Sail & Ski Marina
(formerly called Yacht Harbor) on Lake Travis,  just north of Lakeway off of
FM 620 turning to the lake on Stewart Road.  I'd be happy to sail with
another Rhodie. 

Dave (David Keyes)



David Culp-3 wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave:
> 
> I am your neighbor up the road on Lake LBJ.  I have had my Rhodes 22 for
> the
> last 4 years and didn't realize there was another Rhodie so close by.
> 
> We have basically the same conditions as you do and when I replaced the
> sails this year, I dropped back to a 130 % genoa and added a UPS sail for
> light air/downwind work.  I do a lot of single-handing and the boat was
> over-powered upwind most of the time trying to use the 175 in the winds
> that
> we experience.  If I rolled it up, then I couldn't point too well on what
> you know to be a pretty narrow venue up here.
> 
> I'll take heat for this, but unless my knot meter is lying to me, my
> experience so far is that the boat is faster overall upwind with the
> smaller
> headsail.  I find the boat is fastest when it's flat and the rig balanced
> with a nice entry for pointing.  With just me on board, the 130 comes
> closer
> to accomplishing that in most of the conditions we face here in CenTex. 
> If
> I were on the ocean or a large lake and/or had a bigger crew with more
> opportunities for reaching then it would probably be different.  When I do
> need more sail, I use the UPS, even upwind.  Of course, it won't point as
> well as the 175% in that magical and rare 7-8 kts of steady wind that you
> spoke of, but it's a small price to pay.
> 
> I ordered the 130 from Stan and basically the foot is 5 feet shorter then
> the 175 with a higher clew.  If you are thinking about changing sails you
> can come try mine if you want.
> 
> David Culp
> 
> 
> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:30:27 -0500
> From: David Keyes <rhodes22dave at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTi=-YuWt1H8r5w5_Jv9Uwj1-OLFo-g+6P=u4X5kK at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> My experience on Lake Travis in Austin on a Rhodes 22 for the past ten
> years, using the 175 genoa:
> 
> Prevailing winds are 5-15 knots, sometimes less or more, and of course
> more
> in weather.  Winds are sometimes steady, but often shifty especially when
> passing coves and tributaries.
> 
> The 175 does fine on reaches in winds of at least 4 knots (5-7 is better)
> and on up to as much excitement as you want in heavier winds.  I think the
> sailing is easiest on my lake if the winds are steady at about 7 knots.
>  Often, the wind is 10-15, which makes me focus on keeping the boat steady
> and not heeling very much if my wife is aboard.  You will probably want to
> take in some sail as the winds exceed 15 or even, when over 10, if the
> winds
> are gusty.  When sailing alone in steady, brisk winds (say, 20 knots), I
> am
> happy to use the full 175 and let the lee rail be right at the water
> surface
> when on a reach.  I let the flared hull sit on the water and pretend it's
> a
> Y-Flyer.  However, when my wife is aboard, I need to keep the boat very
> steady and fairly upright. In the first few years of sailing together, she
> thought the boat was going to sink and throw her out with the dishwater if
> it heeled over more than about 10%.  Therefore, I often furl in the 175 as
> necessary for an easy sail.
> 
> The 175 does best when not trying to sail close hauled and heading as
> close
> to the wind as possible.  Furling improves being able to sail closer to
> the
> wind, but, in general, my boat does not point nearly as high upwind as the
> other sailboats on the lake.  In stronger winds, there is some extra push
> away from the wind from its hitting the flared-out portion of the hull.
>  When the 175 is furled to create less sail area, there is some loss of
> shape compared to a sail that would be designed at the smaller size.
> 
> In truly light winds (not uncommon in the hot summer), the 175 sail is so
> heavy, and if there are any motorboats making wakes and choppy water (as
> often happens in the summer), the large 175 with its weight just flaps
> around rather uselessly.  I am not even sure how well it would ghost along
> in really smooth water.
> 
> Even though the boat carries a lot of sail area for its size and usually
> does better with less than full sail in any kind of fresh wind, my boat
> has
> fared well in fairly strong weather on the lake (winds 25-30 with some
> higher gusts), even when sailing by myself.  Nevertheless, I tend most of
> the time to stay ashore if the wind is much over 15 before I even leave
> the
> dock, especially if the wind direction is unfavorable for my getting into
> and out of the dock (which is right near a rocky shore).
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> I am getting a new Rhodes 22, and haven't yet decided whether to get a 175
> again or go smaller.
> 
> David
> 
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
> czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Pat,
>>
>> Like, what a story!  Do you use a furler with the 110?  It almost sounds
>> like you can interchange the two sails.  I am satisfied that my next
>> genoa
>> will be a 135 or 155.  Ed White has sailed his Rhodes in the South Texas
>> winds, also extreme.  I wonder how he best copes with the wind factor. 
>> He
>> takes a much larger boat out now, and his son apparently uses the R22.
>>  Thanks for the input.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Pat & Mary Ann <pmadevig at gra.midco.net>
>> >Sent: Oct 25, 2010 4:57 PM
>> >To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>> >
>> >Art,
>> >7 years ago when Elton delivered my Rhodes 22 I played around with the
>> stock
>> >175% that came with the sail plan.  It soon became apparent that the
>> sail
>> >was not good for the gusty winds of Northwest Minnesota, so I talked
>> with
>> >Stan and he suggested (and sold me) a 110% that has served very well.
>>  About
>> >the only time I use the 175 is down wind with the clew held out with a
> gin
>> >pole.
>> >Pat.
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>> >To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:52 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>> >
>> >
>> >>A few times, a self-tending jib rig has been brought up on the list. 
>> It
>> >>really is simple to set up, regardless of the size of the genoa.  This
>> >>would facilitate changing from a 175% config to beating upwind.
>> >>
>> >> Art
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>From: Rhodes22Dave <Rhodes22Dave at gmail.com>
>> >>>Sent: Oct 24, 2010 11:50 PM
>> >>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> >>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Interesting. I will try this.  I also thought that re-routing the
>> genoa
>> >>>sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught.  I have
>> never
>> >>>liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close to
>> the
>> >>>wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake.  I can do a
>> little
>> >>>better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail
>> area--but
>> at
>> >>>a
>> >>>cost of sail shape with all the furling.  I may get a second R22 and
>> am
>> >>>thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending jib.
>>  But
>> >>>what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
>> >>>Dave
>> >>>
>> >>>Ben Cittadino wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend, and I
>> want
>> >>>> to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally" re-routing
> the
>> >>>> Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for better
>> upwind
>> >>>> sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but I
> was
>> >>>> delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't let
> the
>> >>>> Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt like
>> I
>> >>>> could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new route
> for
>> >>>> the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in the
>> >>>> shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> BenCittadino
>> >>>>
>> >>>> S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> __________________________________________________
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>--
>> >>>View this message in context:
>> >>>http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
>> >>>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >>>
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>> >>
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>> >> __________________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >__________________________________________________
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>> >
>> >For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
>> go
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>>
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>>
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