[Rhodes22-list] Battery Advice
Goodness
spreadgoodnews at gmail.com
Thu Apr 5 14:16:36 EDT 2012
Nice point. Perhaps agm's are worthwhile if maintainence can be dispensed with. The best price i have seen is from northern tool and equipment.
On Apr 5, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
> I thought I'd put in one reason to consider AGMs for R22s. The
> location of the battery may vary considerably from boat to boat. Ours
> is wedged between the water tank and the bulkhead that supports the
> v-berth. We have it tied down but there is no room for a battery box
> or tray in there. It's also not all that accessible for maintenance.
> So no-spill, low maintenance were important to us. We're on our
> second AGM, our 3rd battery in 14 years. The first was a wet cell
> that died early maybe from lack of maintenance. We charge from shore
> power and use a charger that accommodates an AGM - I think we're on
> our second charger.
>
> Mary Lou
> 1991 R22 Fretless
> Rock Hall, MD
>
>
> At 11:53 PM 4/4/2012, you wrote:
>> As i understand AGM (absorbed glass matt) batteries were originally
>> invented for US fighter jets. They can spin 360 without spilling
>> acid. (very beneficial for offshore circumnavigators!). Are lighter
>> (yet larger) than equivalent amp/hr lead acid and have a similar
>> lifespan. (thus better for light displacement downwind planing
>> raceboats and catamarans). Turns out they use less lead, but are a
>> little harder to make ($$-??)
>> They love trickle charging but can still off gas and crack(thus leak
>> and fail) if charged too quickly with high amp chargers. A regular
>> battery is more resistant to this but only if water levels are
>> maintained. Either way ventilation for hydrogen gas must still be
>> provided to reduce explosion hazard. (hydrogen high LP gas low)
>> In summary i dont see the benefit for AGM in the Rhodes except for
>> gee whiz hob snobbery. If you have the extra money i suggest
>> donation to help promote sailing among kids or you other favorite!
>>
>>
>> On Apr 3, 2012, at 7:20 PM, Bob Keller <r22yankeeclipper at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure that AGM batteries are better than the standard
>> lead-acid types but the cost difference is so large that I have
>> never taken the plunge. I use two of the largest Wal-Mart marine
>> batteries that they sell - I believe they are group 27 - and they
>> cost $85 each. They last 5 years and you can almost put it on your
>> calendar that they will last 5 years. Both of mine are in the
>> cabin and I never have to add water, except when they are
>> new. Can't explain that but I check them every year or even a
>> couple times a year. My batteries are each on solar panels with a
>> charge regulator and I also charge them when my 8hp electric start,
>> 2 stroke Tohatsu is running. I have more electronics than most and
>> my batteries never run down including: autopilot, GPS, wind
>> instrument, depth & knot meter, stereo,
>> refrigerator/freezer...etc. When I recently looked at buying AGM
>> batteries for the boat at $230 each, the salesperson said they
>> would last 5 years as did the information I read a!
>> bo!
>>> ut them. Much as I wanted to buy them and have the "best", I
>> could not find a good reason and my cheapness ultimately won
>> out. I buy Wal-Mart batteries for everything I own - cars and
>> boats. Regarding Rummy's comments, Sea Doos are totally different
>> animals and it is probably worth the money for those things...Bob K
>>>> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 10:10:55 -0700
>>>> From: LKUHN at cnmc.org
>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battery Advice
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rummy,
>>>>
>>>> Just when I thought I knew more than I needed to know about batteries.
>>>>
>>>> So for my purpose would I best be served getting a dual purpose
>> battery for
>>>> the one connected to the motor?
>>>>
>>>> I like the idea of AGM long lasting maintenance and spill free--might be
>>>> worth the extra cost.
>>>>
>>>> The guy at West Marine who knew nothing about batteries did show me a $30
>>>> solar panel controller.
>>>>
>>>> It's all so confusing that I should probably just take the "What
>> me worry?"
>>>> attitude and ignore my batteries for another seven years.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>>
>>>> p.s. Last night I was admiring my neighbor's new $10,000+
>> canvas job (just
>>>> the cockpit not sail covers) on his Catalina46 and even though
>> he had three
>>>> windows in the top I asked if it were difficult to view his sail
>> shape. He
>>>> switched on the giant monitor on his helm pedestal and showed me
>> a beautiful
>>>> view of his deck from the masthead camera. No problem seeing his sails.
>>>> Didn't ask him if he paid extra to get AGM batteries.
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> Lee,
>>>> Correction on one point. AGM batteries will last longer than lead acid
>>>> batteries. They cost more, but I like the maintenance free part.
>> I use only
>>>> agm batteries in our SeaDoo and it has more cranking power than
>> a lead acid
>>>> battery. I have two deep cycle batteries on Rum Runner and only use shore
>>>> power for charging. I know from personal experience that without a charge
>>>> controller, solar panels can easily overcharge a battery. You
>> can also buy
>>>> "dual purpose" batteries which allow for deep discharge and also give you
>>>> cranking power for an electric starter. It all depends on how
>> you use your
>>>> boats power.
>>>>
>>>> Rummy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>
>>>>> Great website with an incredible amount of information. It's
>> amazing what
>>>>> I know and don't know about batteries now. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like I can forget about checking amps.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like my battery gave a "false capacity" because it was dead.
>>>>>
>>>>> To summarize, I should ensure my voltage remains between 12.06 and 12.42,
>>>>> approximately.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Lee,
>>>>> If you had 13.4 volts on a battery not being actively charged, something
>>>>> doesn't sound right with that battery. A fully charged battery should be
>>>>> around 12.7 volts. But then you did say your battery was dead.
>>>>>
>>>>> State of Charge 12 Volt battery Volts per Cell
>>>>> 100% 12.7 2.12
>>>>> 90% 12.5 2.08
>>>>> 80% 12.42 2.07
>>>>> 70% 12.32 2.05
>>>>> 60% 12.20 2.03
>>>>> 50% 12.06 2.01
>>>>> 40% 11.9 1.98
>>>>> 30% 11.75 1.96
>>>>> 20% 11.58 1.93
>>>>> 10% 11.31 1.89
>>>>> 0 10.5 1.75
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Much more on batteries, should you care to read. I agree a group 27 deep
>>>>> cycle is appropriate for our boats. Gel and AGM might require less
>>>>> maintenance, but they are costly. - rob
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Top
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David and Geoff,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Went to West Marine and Western Auto yesterday. I guess it depends on
>>>>>> the individual sales/service person, but the Western Auto staff seem to
>>>>>> know far more about boat mechanics. We live in a fishing community so I
>>>>>> guess West Marine is for recreational boaters and Western Auto is for
>>>>>> working boaters. Last month West Marine couldn't figure out what size
>>>>>> spark plug wrench I needed (18mm). Last night they checked
>> the volts but
>>>>>> not the amps on my dead battery and declared it was a
>> connection problem.
>>>>>> Sounds like something I would do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway if you have a 9.9, 4-stroke Mercury you'll need a 12V deep cell
>>>>>> with about 465 amps of marine cranking and 350 amps of cold cranking. A
>>>>>> starting battery might be better for your electric-start
>> outboard but not
>>>>>> for your motor lift. Very important is the group size which tells
>>>>>> nothing more than the physical size of your battery. You want to ensure
>>>>>> it fits in the tray that Stan installed. Mine was a group 27 (27G).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> http://www.mercurymarine.com/service-and-support/storage-and-maintenance/faqs/outboards/?category=electrical
>>>>>>
>> http://www.mercurymarine.com/service-and-support/storage-and-maintenance/faqs/outboards/?category=electrical
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I basically bought the same battery that Stan gave me. The Western Auto
>>>>>> mechanic told me that if it lasted seven years without maintenance then
>>>>>> it was the right battery. Like Geoff he said to check the battery
>>>>>> acid/distilled water level once a year. He said it was impossible to
>>>>>> overcharge the battery with the outboard or solar panels. If you use a
>>>>>> charger without an automatic cut-off you could overcharge the battery
>>>>>> (boils the acid/water). Charging the battery if needed is a good idea,
>>>>>> but you need to check the volts and the amps. My dead battery had 13.4
>>>>>> volts but hardly any amperage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gel and AGM batteries cost more and may not last as long. Big advantage
>>>>>> is that they're maintenance-free and won't leak. Just ensure your
>>>>>> fluid-filled battery covers are on tight for those bury-the-rail heels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> I'd be interested in the same. Original GBI batteries going into their
>>>>>> seventh year, and the boat has been out of the water for almost two
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>> I'll pull the plastic shrink wrap off next weekend and see if the motor
>>>>>> will turn over...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Geoff Farrell
>>>>>> <geoffreylfarrell at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have the same setup as you do. My batteries stay charged with the
>>>>>>> solar panels. It's interesting to note that although I stored my boat
>>>>>>> under a roof from April 15 through Dec 1 my batteries were fully
>>>>>>> charged when I got the boat out of storage. Seems the ambient light
>>>>>>> was enough to keep them topped off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do notice that my batteries use a lot of water, perhaps because they
>>>>>>> are constantly being charged by the panels. I was warned by an old
>>>>>>> salt to check the fluid often, and he was right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recently, I purchased a battery meter that simply plugs into the 12V
>>>>>>> outlet over the galley. It monitors the batteries during charging and
>>>>>>> also while they are being used, and seems to work great. I can measure
>>>>>>> voltage drop while using various combinations of equipment (radio, nav
>>>>>>> lights, etc.). I have been very pleased that on bright sunny days I
>>>>>>> can use the VHF radio and my Ipod (for navigation and music) and
>>>>>>> charge an external portable speaker without any battery drain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My motor is hard wired to battery 2. When cruising I set my battery
>>>>>>> switch to battery 1 to keep battery 2 fully charged for restarting the
>>>>>>> engine. I haven't, however, done any overnighters so my battery use is
>>>>>>> minimal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still have Stan's original batteries and so I would also be
>>>>>>> interested in what the best replacement batteries are for
>> when mine die.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leland wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Need some battery advice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Probably should have replaced my battery long ago. When I need to
>>>>>>> pull-start my outboard in the marina it usually recharges the battery
>>>>>>> enough that I can use the electric start when I'm ready to come in.
>>>>>>> Didn't happen yesterday. By the time I unscrewed everything to get to
>>>>>>> the flywheel I was dangerously close to running into the causeway
>>>>>>> rip-rap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Easy answer would be to replace the battery with the one Stan put in.
>>>>>>> Wasn't sure if there was something better out there now. I've got the
>>>>>>> electric motor winch which I assume uses a ridiculous amount of juice.
>>>>>>> I have one battery hardwired to the motor which is linked to a second
>>>>>>> house battery. Both batteries are linked to two solar panels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've taken zero care of the batteries since I bought the boat seven
>>>>>>> years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should I be concerned about the solar panels overcharging the
>> batteries?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should I periodically charge the batteries to full capacity?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any advice on what battery would be best and what care it needs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>>>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>> http://old.nabble.com/Battery-Advice-tp33544997p33545034.html
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
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>>>
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