[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1

David Bradley dwbrad at gmail.com
Fri Aug 24 21:10:32 EDT 2012 

Sorry Eric - no worries.  You were clear in your post.  I guess I'm grumpy
from spending my vacation dismantling my boat instead of sailing it.  But
the process of building or recycling a R22 is fun so I'll get to do that
again.

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Ejor2 <ejor2 at aol.com> wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion, I agree they may serve a purpose on our R22's and
> are certainly worth a try. I have lost a boat to a hurricane and understand
> the grief. I was not in anyway criticizing them for the purposes discussed
> here. Only that they are made, advertised, and sold for use on dinghies,
> that's the part I don't understand.
>
> Eric J
>
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 3:08 PM, David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think the point of the thread was to use them while at a mooring, not
> for use during sailing. What's pathetic is seeing your boat tied to its
> mooring laying on its side at in 6 feet of water with the mast stuck to the
> bottom.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Aug 24, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Ejor2 <ejor2 at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Rummy,
> >>
> >> I agree 100 percent!! Having sailed/raced many dinghies, primarily
> lasers, you are not sailing if you don't lay the boat over! The only excuse
> I could see for these on a dinghy is if you are learning to launch/retrieve
> on a beach. The force of the breaking waves would probably be too much for
> it to help anyway.
> >>
> >> I am not discounting the possible use as we are discussing, but they
> are made for dinghies and that's pathetic!
> >>
> >> Eric J
> >> Another on the extreme Rhodes sailing team!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 24, 2012, at 12:49 PM, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Having previously owned and sailed a Hobie 16 for many years, I can
> tell
> >>> you with some certainty that no skipper would want one of those floats
> on the
> >>> top of his mast. It screams......ASSHOLE ALERT. Look at me. I can't
> sail
> >>> so I  have a safety float on the top of my mast. If you really need a
> life
> >>> jacket for  your mast, it's time to sell your boat and purchase a
> recliner and
> >>> watch sailing  on your TV. Sailing is not for the feeble minded or
> weak of
> >>> heart. It is  dangerous, but we accept those challenges every single
> time we
> >>> go out.
> >>>
> >>> Rummy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 8/24/2012 8:27:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >>> spreadgoodnews at gmail.com writes:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I  would think by the time it deployed it would already be stuck in the
> >>> mud, but  maybe.  The hobie mast head is designed to minimize windage.
>  Plus i
> >>> have always thought they were cool!
> >>> I have NEVER seen a masthead float on a  cruiser.
> >>> Others might think you to be an extreme racer! Lol!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On  Aug 24, 2012, at 1:53 AM, "Chris Geankoplis" <napoli68 at charter.net
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I wonder if there is an auto inflate device out there that  would
> inflate
> >>>> when the mast is submerged a couple of feet.  It  would mean less
> windage
> >>>> than the big ball on an old Hobie  mast.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris G
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original  Message-----
> >>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of David
> Bradley
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 8:21 PM
> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email  List
> >>>> Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd think the  combination of centerboard down and water shallow
> enough to
> >>>> put  mast/spreader in the mud would introduce a different and
> potentially
> >>>> bigger problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> A float on the mast head would be an  interesting option and might
> have
> >>> freed
> >>>> mine.  Does anyone know,  is that a standard item?  When I took my
> mast
> >>> down
> >>>> yesterday the  mast head was still full of dried mud. I'm surprised my
> >>>> spreader was  not bent.
> >>>>
> >>>> It does seem that the flared hull, freeboard and  cabin profile
> combine to
> >>>> create a tendency to roll in a lateral  wind.  The extreme weather
> >>> patterns
> >>>> this year have created more  cyclonic winds on the East Coast than I
> ever
> >>>> recall experiencing.  However, there were a number of other boats that
> >>> went
> >>>> over in the  storm that hit us. One estimate was that 30 boats went
> over,
> >>>> most  self-righting. Because our boat can be moored in shallower
> water,
> >>>> usually a benefit, it worked against us this time with the storm
> hitting
> >>> at
> >>>> low tide.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dave
> >>>>
> >>>> On Aug 23, 2012,  at 10:35 PM, Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> This is a very interesting set of observations!  It seems  the Rhodes
> >>> has a
> >>>> weakness being lightly ballasted and an unusual wind  scoop (but
> otherwise
> >>>> beneficial) hull flare.  Sudden gust heeling  the vessel 90+ degrees
> >>> buried
> >>>> mast In shallow water.  This is a  big problem.
> >>>>> Preventative measures:
> >>>>> Leave centerboard  down,
> >>>>> Increase ballast,
> >>>>> Fly an "anchor rider"  sail,
> >>>>> Add a hobie masthead float.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Perhaps  even a combination.  Any other ideas for prevention on a
> >>> mooring?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Aug 23, 2012,  at 12:35 PM, Richard MacArthur
> >>>> <Richard at MacArthurLawFirm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> What's going on? I thought my Rhodes 22  was self righting. Self
> >>> righting
> >>>> means that in even the strongest wind  it will blow over 90 degrees
> but
> >>> not
> >>>> roll. It's supposed to stay at 90  degrees until the wind lets up and
> then
> >>>> right itself. A couple of  weeks ago I was caught in a front moving in
> >>> and it
> >>>> blew about 35  knots. I let all sail free and with that I was heeling
> at
> >>>> about 45  degrees. It didn't go down all the way and as soon as I got
> the
> >>>> sail  in, no problem. It seems that when the flare of the hull digs
> in the
> >>>> boat stiffens up. What happens to make it roll? The only thing I can
> >>> think
> >>>> of  is if the vessel is held by the wind with the mast in  the water
> so
> >>> that
> >>>> water can somehow enter the cabin then it loses its  stability and has
> >>> only
> >>>> the flotation to keep it from sinking and this  would allow it to turn
> >>>> turtle. I know some catamarans use a flotation  device at the top of
> the
> >>> mast
> >>>> to stop the mast going to the bottom but  the weight in the keel is
> >>> supposed
> >>>> to do that in a sel!
> >>>> f!
> >>>>> r!
> >>>>>> ighting vessel, unless the interior fills  with water. Am I right on
> >>> this?
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
> >>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23,  2012 12:01 PM
> >>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions  to
> >>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,  visit
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>> or, via  email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>>>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You can  reach the person managing the list at
> >>>>>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When  replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Today's Topics:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. Re: Advise me (Joe Camp)
> >>>>>> 2. Re: Advise me  (Joe Camp)
> >>>>>> 3. Re: It's national rum month. (Charles  Nieman)
> >>>>>> 4. Re: Advise me (Lowe, Rob)
> >>>>>> 5. Re:  Advise me (Stephen Staum)
> >>>>>> 6. Re: Advise me (David  Bradley)
> >>>>>> 7. Re: It's national rum month. (Shawn  Boles)
> >>>>>> 8. Major Jones (Chris Geankoplis)
> >>>>>> 9.  Re: Advise me (Chris Geankoplis)
> >>>>>> 10. Re: Advise me (Chris  Geankoplis)
> >>>>>> 11. Anchor light housing replacement (Patrick  Fletcher)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Message: 1
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:02:43  -0700 (PDT)
> >>>>>> From: Joe Camp  <jjcampjr at yahoo.com>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise  me
> >>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>> Message-ID:
> >>>>>> <1345651363.78003.YahooMailNeo at web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mary Lou:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ? ? ?I think you really have the  solution here in considering the
> >>> flared
> >>>> hull as a potential (or the  most likely)
> >>>>>> reason for these roll-overs... or mine,  anyway.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ? ? ?I have noted how tender the boat  is when motoring with the
> tiller
> >>>> locked. ?The boat cannot maintain a  straight course if I am moving
> about
> >>> the
> >>>> cabin. ?Of course, I am 230  pounds, and that's more ballast to
> adjust the
> >>>> course, but I have  learned to steer the boat by changing my position
> >>> (even
> >>>> slightly) in  the cockpit. ?My good sailing friend has a McGregor 25
> and
> >>> he
> >>>> has more  "wetted surface" ?(to borrow a term from Stan). ?He can
> lock his
> >>>> tiller and wander fore and aft and beam to beam yet still maintain his
> >>> basic
> >>>> course. He is more stable and takes more wind to heel the boat.  ?Our
> keel
> >>>> weights are about the same. ?In the event that flipped my  boat, his
> >>> moored
> >>>> just a hundred feet away, didn't have a cushion out  of place. True,
> this
> >>>> could be due in part to the nature of the weather  event itself, but
> still
> >>>> telling as to the side to side stability  issue. ?BNy the way, the
> >>> integrity
> >>>> of my mast has been compromised by  being buried in the bottom
> >>>>>> mud. Looks like a new mast is in  the picture. ?Ah well, you've got
> to
> >>>> have stories to call yourself a  sailor. ?Aye, mates??
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ?  ??
> >>>>>> Joe Camp
> >>>>>> s/v John Dawson
> >>>>>> Bohemia River, MD
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>> From: Mary Lou Troy  <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
> >>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August  21, 2012 8:50 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise  me
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think any small relatively  unballasted boat would be more at
> risk
> >>>>>>> on a mooring. Our  boats also have a fair amount of windage with
> the
> >>>>>>> IMF and  the flared hull. In a strong wind the poptops are probably
> >>>>>>> also a liability unless well secured. I've never felt  unsafe at
> >>>>>>> anchor and we've been anchored in some pretty  high winds but they
> >>>>>>> were of short duration and our  anchorages are typically more
> >>>>>>> protected than most mooring  fields.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Somewhere I saw it noted that  with the warming climate, the world
> is
> >>>>>>> a windier place.  That certainly seems true here on the Chesapeake
> >>>>>>> (though  not today).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mary  Lou
> >>>>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>>>>> Rock Hall,  MD
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At 06:13 PM  8/21/2012, you wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Lack of a deep heavy keel is  definitely a contributing factor.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Stephen
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joe Camp  <jjcampjr at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Luck of the draw."? Yeah, odd that so many R-22s  flipp like
> >>>>>>>> this.? It must be the global warming... er  ah, "climate change"
> >>>>>>>> R-22 effect.? Was this in Al  Gore's movie?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Joe
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> From: Stephen  Staum <snstaum at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes  22 Email List  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent:  Tuesday, August 21, 2012 4:27 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Mine also turtled on its mooring w local  cyclones reported. 1
> >>>>>>>> power boat was wrecked on the  rocks - no other boats in the
> mooring
> >>>>>>>> field were  damaged. I think it is just the luck of the  draw.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Stephen
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent  from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 3:31 PM, Joe Camp  <jjcampjr at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I was not driven ashore.? She flipped  right at the
> >>>>>>>> mooring.? All other moored boats very  near got nothing. I am
> >>>>>>>> looking for a slip for next  season.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Joe
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> From:  Chris Geankoplis  <napoli68 at charter.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'The  Rhodes 22 Email List'  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:19  PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise  me
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> In my case it took a tornado going  thru the "pot" on Poplar
> >>>>>>>> Island to do  the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> deed.? If you sail in shoal waters  it will happen to any boat
> >>>>>>>> given  enough
> >>>>>>>>>>>> sudden wind.? In the last 35  years Joe is the only one I can
> >>>>>>>> recall  other
> >>>>>>>>>>>> than mine, and he was driven  ashore, right?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chris  G
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original  Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>> From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of  PBR
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012  8:15 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email  List
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  Advise me
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't want to wish ill upon anyone  else but...with all this
> >>> talk
> >>>>>>>>>>>> about  Rhodes 22's with Masts stuck in the mud, are our boats
> >>> more
> >>>>>>>>>>>> inclined to suffer this fate or  did these recent storms
> cause a
> >>> lot
> >>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> havoc for other boats the same  size?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with  using the mailing list and
> >>>>>>>> archives go  to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with  using the mailing list and
> >>>>>>>> archives go to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using  the mailing list and
> >>>>>>>> archives go to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the  mailing list and
> >>>>>>>> archives go to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the  mailing list and
> >>>>>>>> archives go to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing  list and
> >>>>>>>> archives go to  http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----
> >>>>>>>> No virus found in this  message.
> >>>>>>>> Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
> >>>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database:  2437/5214 - Release Date:
> >>>> 08/21/12
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To  subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list  and
> archives
> >>>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Message:  2
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>>>> From: Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
> >>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>> Message-ID:
> >>>>>> <1345651740.5488.YahooMailNeo at web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Chris:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ? ? ?Yeah, thank the maker for  insurance. ?I learned yesterday
> that my
> >>>> mast has suffered some dimples  up where the spreaders attach. ?I sent
> >>> pics
> >>>> to Stan, and he confirmed  that these will make the mast weaker, maybe
> >>> even
> >>>> unsafe. ?So, I  suppose I am on the hard for the rest of the season.
> ?The
> >>>> marina crew  has the cabin cleaned out pretty well, so the main issue
> is
> >>> the
> >>>> mast.  ?As I said to Mary Lou: "you've got to have stories to call
> >>> yourself a
> >>>> sailor." ?ttfn.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Joe?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>> From: Chris Geankoplis  <napoli68 at charter.net>
> >>>>>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email  List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday,  August 22, 2012 1:16 AM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  Advise me
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gee  Joe,
> >>>>>>> ??? Sounds like Whack a Mole and you lost.? I'm glad  you have
> >>> insurance,
> >>>>>>> let us know how things came out.?  Sounds like Peter was treated
> well
> >>> by
> >>>> his
> >>>>>>> insurance.
> >>>>>>> Chris G
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From:  rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Joe  Camp
> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:31  PM
> >>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Chris:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I was not  driven ashore. ?She flipped right at the mooring. ?All
> >>> other
> >>>>>>> moored boats very near got nothing. I am looking for  a slip for
> next
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>
> >> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >
> > For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>

More information about the Rhodes22-list mailing list