[Rhodes22-list] ...ventilation [on spray foam and other musings].

Chris Geankoplis napoli68 at charter.net
Thu Feb 16 09:52:32 EST 2012 

Gee Peter,
	I'm a real fan of your solutions!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of peter klappert
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:33 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ...ventilation [on spray foam and other
musings].


Another option is the Nicro day/Night solar fan. It can be mounted in the
fore deck over the rode locker (where it also draws off moisture from the
anchor rode). It's a compact & tidy addition on deck and doesn't get in the
way when you're at the bow. Given the small volume of the R22 cabin and the
amount of air that can come in even when the poptop is down & the companion
way closed, the Nicro provides great air circulation. It moves a lot of air
& runs around the clock because it has a rechargeable battery (which is
supposed to last 2 years). I got the 4" rather than the 3". I owe the
addition to Chris Cowie, who recommended it.
    The Airhead composting head uses a small fan to vent the compost; it
draws very little. Still, were I doing it again I might also add the 3"
Nicro there (on the cabin top).
    I had a boat cover made (eventually I'll post a few photos) & that would
cover a 2nd Nicro. BUT: I had vinyl windows added to the cover so that the 2
solar panels will function even when the boat is covered. I don't see why
there couldn't also be some kind of window & vented area in the cover for a
2nd Nicro.     
     Ventilation is especially important because I keep Aeolia is Florida
where it gets hot & humid. I also added 2 circulating fans inside the cabin:
one where the bulkhead meets the cabin wall on the port side, and one in the
v-berth positioned so it can either push air into the berth area or flush
air from the head. Neither draws much power.



----- Original Message -----
From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:05:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ...on spray foam and other musings....

The key to decreasing condensation on a R22 is air movement. I doubt that  
insulation would hold up very well in our small craft. Years ago I mounted a

 small 12v computer fan behind a stainless steel cowling on the  hatch. 
Plugged into 12 volt and eliminated all the mold and mildew I had
experienced 
previously. Much easier than insulation. There isn't enough exposed  hull to

make it practical in my opinion.
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 2/14/2012 11:50:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
spreadgoodnews at gmail.com writes:

To  decrease interior condensation.  Now that i think more about it 
tek-foil  might be a better option.



On Feb 14, 2012, at 9:29 AM,  R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:

> Bob,
> I'm just curious, why  would you want to insulate the interior hull of a  
> R22?
>  
> Rummy
> 
> 
> In a message dated 2/14/2012 8:32:59  A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> spreadgoodnews at gmail.com  writes:
> 
> Thanks  Rob.  I am building out a 43' steel  sailboat hull.  I am 
finishing  
> the final interior epoxy  coats now then i will spray closed cell 
> polyurethane  foam all  over the interior hull over the stringers and 
ribs.  Then i 
>  have  read i should spray a fire retardant elastomeric paint over the  
foam to 
> resist  ignition in case of an interior fire. This foam  will insulate as 
well 
> as  contribute to the oxygen barrier of  the epoxy.
> what kind of foam did boston  whaler use in their hull  construction?  My 
> friend has a bw dinghy hull  that weighs  about 300 pounds! Thats like 20 
> gallons of absorbed  water!   My understanding of closed cell foam is 
that if it 
>  is cut after spraying it  will absorb some, but i am not sure how  much. 
 I 
> think the Rhodes has the  good stuff in there like  the foam that floats 
> docks.(closed cell  polyurethane?)
>  Also is a pool noodle polyethelene foam? You can get that  stuff in  she
ets 
> and it would be nice to insulate the rhodes interior  hull  with.  It 
wont 
> absorb water either.
>  Thanks,
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> On  Feb 13, 2012,  at 9:58 PM, Rob Granger <rgranger at sbc.edu>  wrote:
>  
>> Okay I didn't want to seem heavy handed when I stated   before that I was
>> "almost certain" that Great Stuff is closed  cell  because there is a 
lot 
> of
>> controversy on this  topic and to be fair,  not all spray foams are the
>> same...  but I'm a chemist and I felt it  was necessary that we get  this
>> straitened out since many of us are DIY   boaters...  so on the topic of
>> spray foam
>>  
>> Some  spray foams are latex and therefore open celled (DO  NOT USE LATEX
>> SPRAY FOAM ON YOUR BOAT) but Great Stuff expanding  spray foam is a
>> polyurethane-based foam and not a latex  foam.  So unlike the latex  
spray
>> foams it is *closed  cell*.   And you should not be  afraid of it  
absorbing
>> water.  It will (however) stick to the  hull  like ... well a 
polyurethane
>> glue (think Gorilla glue).   So  the bag idea is the way to go if you 
ever
>> want to get it  out again...  or line the area with visqueen before you
>>  spray.  I've used both  approaches and they both work fine...   I can 
post
>> pictures if  anyone wants to see the results of  the bag or visqueen
>> approach.
>> 
>> So to  clarify, polyurethane foam (Great  Stuff)  is *closed cell*... so 
 it
>> is fine to use on your boat,  even in low  spots.
>> 
>> The pink and blue foam boards at Lowes  and  HomeDepo are also great to 
use
>> for floatation  foam.  They are  *extruded* polystyrene and so they will 
>  not
>> fall apart into tiny  little balls that make a mess  everywhere... (Iike
>> cheap styrofoam  will).  I have  about six 3" boards cut up and crammed 
> into
>> my   MacGregor 22'.  And all of the little left over pieces are in a   
bag,
>> crammed into a tight spot and filled with spray foam (along  with  some
>> packing peanuts I got in Christmas boxes this  year).
>> 
>> A note on packing peanuts.  They're now  two kinds.  The  old-school 
kind 
> are
>> made of  styrofoam.  Those are fine to use on  a boat.  The other type  
are 
> "*
>> green*" and made of  cellulose.  The  cellulose peanuts will dissolve in
>> water.   Obviously  you do not want to use those.  It is easy to tell 
which
>> type  you have.  Drop one in a glass of water and wait a bit.  Or  you  
can
>> bite one  :-)
>> 
>> If you  are skeptical about the  closed cell nature of Great Stuff 
>  expanding
>> foam...(and it is not a  bad thing to be skeptical)  you can read about 
it 
> on
>> the Dow Chemical  site...  you wont hurt my feelings if you do... I 
promise
>> :-)
>>  
>> Here is the link to the Dow Chemical site
>>  
>>  http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/sealants/windowdoor.htm
>>  
>> 
>> my 2 cents.
>> 
>> ... the other  Rob
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