[Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
Michael D. Weisner
mweisner at ebsmed.com
Wed Apr 10 21:53:46 EDT 2013
Peter,
Nothing gets past you ...
Mike
s/v <-no name -> ('91)
Nissequogue River, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of peter klappert
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:08 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
Graham--
"When I get it up I will take pictures and post them..."
We're all looking forward to this event.
(-:
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Stewart" <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:29:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
Thanks Michael:
I was in touch with Lou a few years back and read the excellent account of
his fix. The problem he had was quite different from the one I am facing -
and probably worse than mine. As I recall the issue he faced was that the
side of the centreboard slot bulged out and pressed against the centreboard.
He had to fix the fibreglass that was inside a 2" slot. My problem is on the
bottom of the keel - which is at least accessible when the boat is raised.
When I get it up I will take pictures and post them..
Graham Stewart
gstewart8 at cogeco.ca
613 389-1737
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael D. Weisner
Sent: April-09-13 7:31 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
Graham,
I understand the joy one can derive from such an endeavor. I have completed
many similar tasks to both of my R22s, although I never gave up more than a
single season. I try not to lose sight of the fact that these are sailboats
and are therefore to be sailed. Project boats are best sold, as many have
learned.
Similar centerboard repairs have been done in the past. Lou Rosenberg's
"Miracles" is one such vessel. He recruited help from Roger Pihlaja for the
centerboard repairs
(http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2011-November/070015.html).
Good luck!
Mike
s/v <-- NoName --> ('91)
Nissequogue River, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Graham Stewart
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:08 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
Mike:
Yes, I know it looks insane. That is my wife's opinion. To reclaim a bit of
credibility perhaps I should day that I have been sailing for 30 years and
had the Rhodes for 20 before I began this task - avoiding major repair the
whole time. I became motivated when a boat surveyor to me it was hopeless
to fix it. I should use it for a few years and then take it to the dump. The
"DUMP"? No way I would take my Rhodes to the dump so I realized that I would
either fix it or die trying. Given my age (66), what the actual result will
be is still a tossup.
I have spent more on the rebuild than the boat was worth and that doesn't
count my time. But the fact is that I love the boat's design and enjoy the
challenge of the rebuild, don't have the heart to put t out of its misery,
and can't stand it when someone tells me I can't do something.
My advice to others is don't do a major boat rebuild if the point of the
exercise is to have a boat, but do it if you enjoy the rebuilding process -
especially the sanding part, are too sentimental to say good bye or are
unable to take the advice of a professional. You have to enjoy the work at
least as much as you enjoy sailing - so that eliminates those who view such
preferences as perverse.
Yes, I know, it is insane and this is my second boat. The first one took 9
summers over 10 years to complete. In both cases the project began when I
decided to tightened a screw but kept finding new and bigger issues.
But it gets worse. My next major "challenge" with the Rhodes might be more
than I can handle. I discovered late last summer that there is a huge crack
in the very bottom of the keel that goes all the way around the centreboard
opening. You can't see it unless you are flat on your back under the keel
and so it was missed as I don't normally spend much time there. I have
almost completed building a big boat lift that is intended to lift the boat
about 6' off the ground and, if it works as intended, I hope to be able to
work on the keel bottom while standing on the ground.
The big question right now is how to fix the keel? Glassing will be very
difficult as the space between the crack and the centreboard hole is only
about 1.5" and I can't make the slot narrower. If anyone has done such a
fix or has an idea of how it might be approached, I would love to hear from
them. I am wondering if it is feasible to bolt on a steel plate with the
rods going right up through the cabin sole. That might strengthen the keel
bottom and add some ballast.
Graham Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael D. Weisner
Sent: April-09-13 5:37 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
Wow! I take my hat off to you for being really thorough. I like to get
things correct, too, but I would buy a new boat before I put in three
summers rebuilding one. All these years I thought that the hobby was to
sail a sailboat. Life is short and the wind is free. If you're not ready
to sail this summer please find one of the Rhodies who lives close to you
and get out on the water.
Mike
s/v <-- NoName --> ('91)
Nissequogue River, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Graham Stewart
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 3:43 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
All this concern about attaching hardware might seem like overkill but
perhaps my experience might put it all into context. On my older Rhodes (74)
I had spider cracking around absolutely every hole drilled to hold any
hardware. In addition I had rot in the fore deck core. I have now replaced
the core in the entire foredeck, stripped the boat of absolutely all
hardware, dug out or ground away all of the cracks, filled everything with
epoxy filler, re-glassed and faired all of the areas that had been non-skid,
sanded all of the deck and cockpit surfaces - repeatedly and endlessly- ,
applied epoxy base coat and am in the process of spray painting the whole
deck - having first to learn how to spray paint. After the painting I will
need to apply non-skid and reinstall all of the hardware. All of this is
not a trivial task having consumed most of my free summer time for three
years now and you can be darned sure that when I get to the point of
reinstalling the hardware the holes will be oversized, the core exposed in
the hole will be well sealed with epoxy, it will be bedded in butyl, not
silicone or 5200, the opening will be bevelled and there will be backing
plates on everything.
Personally, I plan to do all that Todd and others have suggested and
anything else that might be suggested before attaching hardware and consider
it an absolutely trivial investment in time compared to the time and
expense associated with making major deck repairs. My suggestion to anyone
planning to re-bed hardware that they take the opportunity to do it right or
do it my way.
Graham Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of sprocket80
Sent: April-09-13 12:32 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
The whole exercise of over drilling and filling the hole with epoxy (in
cored decks) then re-drilling to the diameter of the screw is to seal the
deck coring completely. Bedding compound eventually shrinks, wears, gets
exposed to the elements, etc., and fails. Especially on chocks and chain
plates which are also put under heavy mechanical loads. Squirting bedding
compound into the holes and spreading it under the fixture offers little
barrier to water intrusion into the core once it has failed, especially
since the screw is going to push almost all of it out of the hole and into
the cabin. Boat owners should re-bed the deck hardware every few seasons or
so but often only find out the bedding compound has failed is when they feel
a soft spot in the deck and the core is already failing.
Countersinking the hole (getting a clean cut with a countersink bit--NOT
drill bit) accomplishes two jobs. First the flat underside of the fitting is
going to force the compound into the countetsunk hole and around the
fastener. Forcing it into a narrowing beveled hole is going to create a
tighter plugging effect of the compound. Second, it removes a stress point
of the screw against the edge of the gelcoat skin. Bedding compound should
not completely harden and remain somewhat pliable. A fitting like a chock
which gets lateral loading, is going to want to move by some small amount.
With a straight drilled hole, the screw is going be in direct contact with
and put stress on the edge of the skin around the hole. And as Dennis
pointed out, we all know what stress does to the gelcoat.
Todd T
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Graham Stewart
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 10:29 AM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bow Chocks
Rummy is probably right. There is no wood core in the edge that can rot
anyway and the fibreglass is quite thick there. So that would not be a
concern. If you decide to do that I would countersink slightly the screw
holes in the gel coat and bed the chock carefully as you will otherwise
probably get spider cracks in the gel coat around the screws over time.
Graham Stewart
-> snipped
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