[Rhodes22-list] interior paint

Mon May 13 23:57:45 EDT 2013

Dennis:
GBX is the code for General Boats, the manufacturer, 220 is the boat number,
I think that 630 is June 30th and 74 is the year. So there was a space of
only 4 boats between your boat and mine when the centreboard arrangement
changed. 

Hoisting the boat to remove the swing keel is rather dramatic unless you
have a marina with a lift that they don't need for a while. I am actually
just completing a lift of my own to use with the Rhodes and two other boats
I own. The rig turned out to be much larger and expensive and time consuming
to build  than what I expected when I starter, nothing new there, and I
would be a bit reluctant to go to all that trouble in your case. I suspect
that you would only need to lift the boat about 18" to get the swing keel
out and if you remove the cover inside the housing all of the pulleys and
access to the tether should be available. In my case the tether line needed
replacing and the pulleys were jammed and also needed replacing. So serving
the inside of the housing seems inevitable at some point and with it being a
74 that point can't be too far off. The problem with raising it only 18
inches is that it gives you no room to get inside the housing to clean it
and apply anti-fouling which I expect it will need sorely.

The other option that I would consider after getting some feedback from
others and especially Stan if possible, would be to use a grinder to cut off
the top of the housing a few inches above the stringers and then create a
flange joint for future servicing. With the miracle of epoxy that should not
be an impossible job and would put you in a position where future serving is
just a pain - not a major challenge. Clearly, making the top removable was
an improvement that stuck with future boats and if you are putting that much
work into the boat this could be an important improvement to copy.

Removing the concrete ballast might turn out to be a nightmare. The concrete
would be much harder than the hull and I would worry that trying to break
the bond could severely damage the boat. That said I recall pictures,
probably still in the archives, of boats where the concrete appeared to
separating from the hull by itself. If that is the case I would worry that
it might break loose on a high heel and the thought of several hundred
pounds of concrete crashing through the floorboards when I am already in a
panic that the boat might be going over gives me pause. If it is loose, I
would take it out, if the bond is good I would leave it in place. I don't
know how they bonded the concrete to the hull in the first place but I would
be very concerned that new cement would bond properly. I guess the other
change between boat 220 and 224 was to replace the concrete with the steel
bars. If I were removing the concrete I would do the same. If it would be
helpful I could measure the volume if the ballast and take more pictures for
you so you can estimate what you need and where to put it. I have thought
that I would like to add ballast to my boat but am unsure where to put it or
how much to add.

When you say that there is exposed cloth in the bilge I would consider using
multiple layers of epoxy as well as paint to cover and seal it. I wonder if
the cloth is exposed because of abrasion. I would also considered adding a
layer of cloth if it appears that the wear is substantial. My concerns would
be that water sitting in the bilge for a long time where the cloth is
exposed might work its way into the substrate and that can contribute
substantially to osmosis from what I have read. Before sealing the surface I
would want to make darn sure that the bilge fibreglass is thoroughly dry. I
would be tempted to seal up the boat and run a dehumidifier in it until no
more water is extracted. 

Good luck,
Graham 

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Frappier
Sent: May-13-13 5:59 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] interior paint

Hi  Graham,
Great job on fixing that flange.  I wish I had one to access my centerboard.
I am not sure what number my hull is, it has a stamp of the stern that says
GBX 220630974.  Someone told me the last 2 numerals are the year and maybe
the month before it?
 My trunk is solid and the only moving parts are the pendant for the
centerboard and a little 3 in x 5 in. cover on top that I have not gotten
off yet that I think goes to a pulley arrangement for the centerboard.  I
would love to change the pendant and inspect the entire centerboard but
sitting on the trailer under the 2x2 framed and plastic building it is hard
to plan on jacking up the boat and taking the trailer away to drop the
centerboard.  I do have a little medal fitting on each side of the hull
where I imagine the pivot is for the centerboard.  I thought they were Zincs
but they may also be access ports for the centerboard pivot. 
My hull inside is pretty clean but a fair amount of cloth is showing and I
was thinking about rolling and brushing in some epoxy resin to seal it
before put the stringers in and tab them with some 4 in cloth. I was even
thinking about lifting the cement ballast and epoxying under it and then
returning it in the same place.  I have custom cut the stringers to fit the
curve of the hull. 

Sincerely,

Dennis Frappier

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Graham Stewart
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:24 AM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] interior paint

Dennis:
What a relief to know that there is someone else out there with a 74 Rhodes.
Interesting that you and I both have 74s yet the centreboard and ballast
construction is so different. What is your hull number? Mine is 244. 

I have attached a picture of my cabin bilge taken from the same angle as
your picture.

I do not have cement ballast but instead what I think are  steel bricks
stacked and glassed over just in front of the forward cross strut shown at
the bottom of the photo. The main bulkhead and mast post sit on that strut.
(I call the pieces gong fore and aft "stringers" and the cross pieces
"struts" for a lack of better terminology.) 

Also, my boat has a cap on the swing keel housing, currently removed, with a
flange that allows it to be bolted down to the flange on the lower piece -
shown n the picture. To understand what you are seeing, originally, the cap
was covered with a layer of cloth that wrapped around the flange. Getting it
off was difficult and in the process the matching surfaces of the flanges
were badly damaged. To make smooth surfaces for mating I cut a piece of 1/8"
aluminium and bonded it to the lower flange with epoxy filler and bolts -
which you can see in the photo. I then covered it with a layer of wax paper
and then bonded the cap to the lower surface. Once cured, I removed the cap
and wax paper to have perfectly matching surfaces that help making a proper
seal with a gasket and silicone. I should also note that the cap was broken
during the first removal and needed to be made stronger and more rigid by
adding some layers of cloth and epoxy resin. That was not original. With the
cap removed I am able to simply lift the swing keel straight up and out of
the boat.  Is there a way to get the swing keel out of your housing?

I am not sure exactly what you mean when you ask whether you " should epoxy
the fibreglass beneath the stringers" I think it makes sense to fasten the
stringers to the hull with epoxy or resin filler and tape. Mine are all
attached in this way. It preserves the wood in addition to adding strength
as I think the stringers give the hull increased stiffness which is
important especially on the older boats which appear t have less structural
stiffness in the hull lay-up. Do the stringers fit the hull of are they
suspended above it. Mine fit snugly making the glassing process easier.

Graham 

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Frappier
Sent: May-12-13 9:08 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] interior paint

I am working on the cabin of a 74 that has nothing in the cabin but the
V-Berth and the concrete ballast forward of the centerboard trunk.  I have
cut a couple of 2x4 stringers and planned to put them about 6 in. from the
trunk.  I have epoxy coated the stringers and will also install the more
outboard stringers from 3/4 plywood for the step under the cabinet and the
seat area.  I am not sure if I should epoxy the fiberglass beneath the
stringers?  Any suggestions?  I am anxious to get the sole down so I can get
the bulkheads in especially the bulkhead with the compression post for the
mast.  Then I can install the new mast plate and mounting bracket for the
mast.  
I think I have a picture attached but this is the first post with picture so
I am not sure.  My centerboard trunk is different than the pictures I have
seen previously.  Suggestions are appreciated as I am a novice on this
project. 

Sincerely,

Dennis Frappier

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Graham Stewart
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 3:28 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] interior paint

 Mike:
Interlux Bilge Coat gives a shiny tough finish that is resistant to
chemicals and seems to me to be abrasive resistant. I used it on my wooden
boat and am quite satisfied. It is cheaper than epoxy. Epoxy has no UV
protection and should be normally be painted anyway .
The floor stringers in my boat were replaced many years ago by a previous
owner with pressure treated fence boards. They were glassed in place and
have stood up remarkably well. I would be inclined to use 5/4 pressure
treated deck boards instead as the 1/2" fence boards as they give a much
larger edge area to screw the floor boards into.
I would definitely glass the boards to the hull and cover the rest with
epoxy.
The original stringers on my boat were placed quite close to the centreboard
cap making it rather difficult to get in to  the bolts to remove the cap or
get in with a sponge to remove bilge water. I plan to redo mine but place
them about 1" out from the current position.

Graham Stewart

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hellyar
Sent: May-12-13 12:52 PM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] interior paint

Picked up a Rhodes 22. Needs TLC especially interior. Want to paint raw
fiberglass under seating behind cabinets and under cabin flooring around the
bilge trough. Whatever was there - appears to have been painted at some time
- has mostly peeled. Need to keep cost down but want washable clean looking
finish. Can anyone recommend type of paint or can epoxy be used 

Bilge trough wood frame ( my own term ) around the keelboard housing trunk
was under water for some time and need to be replaced. Any recommendations ?
Appears to have been glassed and tabbed to the cabin floor. Looks like
damaged wood still good enough to overlay with epoxy and cloth or just
thickened epoxy. Any suggestions ?

Mike Hellyar
sent from my iPad
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