[Rhodes22-list] Ballast
The Rhodes 22 Email List
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Wed Apr 1 15:05:20 EDT 2015
I have a true 1974 and it has concrete ballast. Starts under the water tank and forward bunk and stops just before the keel well. During my rebuild I had to replace the stringers, framing and decking. I also cut in stringer scupper style drains so the bilge water does not pool up and stay trapped. In Arizona humidity and condensation are not a issue but I also put hinges on my cabin sole plate so I can lift them up to inspect, clean and air out the bilge on occasion.
Fred Haag
Mesa, Az
Fred
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 5 ACTIVE™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Date:04/01/2015 11:11 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Ballast
I have read on the list that extra ballast performs well just forward of the mast and by the water tank. I plan to do that with a battery bank.
Bob (palatka)
> On Apr 1, 2015, at 2:05 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>
> Sometime in 1976 the internal ballast changed from Steel bricks to cement. I
> don't know what is used today. Steel is obviously much denser than cement so
> I expect that the actual ballast weight is greater with steel than with the
> cement unless the volume of the cement is considerably larger.
>
> My neighbour has given up on the construction of a 55' steel cutter after
> working on it for 40 years - on and off. As a result he has tons (literally)
> of lead bricks and I can buy some for Agile. I had thought about placing
> some on either side of the centreboard housing and forward along with the
> steel bricks that are there already.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts about how one might determine where and how
> much ballast might be added? At this point I am thinking that I will place
> some bricks loose in the bilge and play with the distribution until it feels
> right - but that could constitute a lot of fiddling. All that time spent
> sailing detracts substantially from the time I have available to work on the
> repair of the boat.
>
> Graham
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 22 Email
> List
> Sent: April-01-15 1:32 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
>
> Graham:
> Ok. I didnt add the extra ballast. It had it already. I called it "extra"
> since i consider needing to add internal ballast a design flaw or a building
> shortcut (i.e. Concrete instead of lead). But hey i am not criticizing the
> boat, just explaining my word choice.
>
> Yes i too am adding LIMBER HOLES too. At 4 am i woke up remembering that i
> called them "stringer scuppers" yesterday which isnt nautically correct!
> Hahaha!
>
> For the main center floor stringers i cut them from 2x6" pressure treated
> lumber. The wider area will make adding the floor and bilge inspection
> hatch easier and acually was cheaper than 5/4" deck wood.
>
> I am still deciding what to do about my hull/deck joint. Access is good
> from inside at this point. I found these great caulk gun tubes of two part
> epoxy that mix as you pump it that i should be able to use to easily fill
> the joint. We will see! The other option is the Np-1 Rummy recommended.
>
> I think that there is also a fair amount of water that finds its way into
> the bilge from condensation. I am designing a solar powered bilge dryer.
> Another "we will see"
>
> Another idea is that i am adding floor vents to keep air moving under the
> floor boards and to allow the bilge to dry.
>
> Bob (palatka)
>
>>> On Apr 1, 2015, at 1:12 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>
>> Bob:
>>
>> When you say that you installed "extra" ballast I am wondering what
>> was there already and how much you added. I would like to add some
>> myself but don't know how much or where exactly to put it.
>>
>> The stringers under the settee and galley rotted out for me as well.
>> Water gets trapped there - especially under the galley where it is not
>> visible and rots out the wood. The source of water for me primarily
>> was a leaking hull deck join. I have glassed the joint so that should
>> finally end the leaks but I also put drain holes in the bottom of the
>> stringers to ensure that any water that makes its way in, and it will,
>> can drain out on its own. Further, I put an inspection hole in the
>> bottom self of the galley so I can reach in to the space should I want
>> to check for water or retrieve anything the might fall in behind the
>> shelf. I am also encapsulating the settee and galley stringers in
>> multiple coats of epoxy. I am putting white Formica laminate on the
>> face of these pieces and all other wood surfaces to give a maintenance
> free and easy to clean interior.
>>
>> With the floor stringers I am intending to use pressure treated deck
> boards.
>> A previous owner used pressure treated fence boards and while they
>> stood up very well to rot and held to epoxy very well, being only 1/2"
>> thick did not give a sufficient area to screw the deck boards to. Of
>> course I will be putting drain holes in them as well.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 22
>> Email List
>> Sent: March-31-15 10:05 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
>>
>> Mine is a 1983 and is in excellent condition for a boat of that age.
>> (I have had three 1983 sailboats and one 1982 sailboat) My deck is rock
> solid!
>> I can see under the front of my cockpit floor and it seems to have
>> pine boards set in the glass but not real sure. That floor is also rock
> solid.
>>
>> My floor rotted out most likely because it was stored with the hatch open.
>> There was one design "flaw" and it was that there were several areas
>> that trapped water. I am making sure all water can get to the bilge
>> pump. I am sure Stan probably puts in bilge scuppers in these stringers
> now.
>> I am rebuilding these with pressure treated wood/plywood. I dried it
>> out for several months so fiberglass will stick to it. I also have
>> had good luck with waterproof construction adhesive holding it in
>> place until the glass goes off.
>> Oh and my extra ballast is concrete glassed over just forward of the
>> main bulkhead.
>> I sealed this over with fiberglass cloth soaked in epoxy when i placed
>> the main bulkhead base. I didnt want the moisture in the concrete to
>> keep the wood wet.
>>
>> Bob (palatka)
>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2015, at 8:35 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob:
>>> Don't let me spook you. Any boat that old is bound to have some
>>> problems but just about anything can be fixed. The trick is to not
>>> let problems go too long - especially problems with the deck core.
>>> Some, if not all, of the problems I identified are probably unique to
>>> my boat. I don't know whether the contractors who built the older
>>> boats did the layup or just assembled the parts. Nor do I know how
>>> many contractors were used and what the differences might be between
> them.
>>>
>>> Many of the older boats have problems with the floor stringers
>>> rotting out - which is not a surprise given that the bilge is often
>>> wet and the stringers are wood.
>>>
>>> What is the ballast arrangement with your boat? In mine I have a
>>> stack of steel bars fiberglassed to the hull just forward of the
>>> forward
>> bulkhead.
>>> Some boats apparently have cement there.
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes
>>> 22 Email List
>>> Sent: March-31-15 6:55 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
>>>
>>> What years were built where and by whom?
>>>
>>> Bob (palatka)
>>>
>>>>> On Mar 31, 2015, at 12:59 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Graham - thanks for clarifying the porta-potti issue. And for the
>>>> invitation!
>>>>
>>>> I didn't realize 76's were built by 3rd parties. That's unsettling.
>>>> I will check out my keel, bearing in mind the problems you have had.
>>>> And the other flaws you detected.
>>>>
>>>> Much appreciated,
>>>>
>>>> Jefferson
>>>>
>>>> On 15-03-29 3:55 PM, "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jefferson:
>>>>> You can use a porta-pottie on Ontario waters so long as it is fixed
>>>>> in place and has a deck pump out. Most porta-potties have kits for
>>>>> this purpose. No need for a separate holding tank.
>>>>>
>>>>> You would be most welcome if you make the trip to my place and can
>>>>> tie up at my dock given that my boat is still on the hard. I also
>>>>> have a mooring that you can use. I am located just west of Lemoines
>>>>> Point on the north Shore of Lake Ontario.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Rhodes 22 were built under contract with 3rd parties in 1976
>>>>> and as a result some of the construction details were lacking. A
>>>>> few things that you might want to check on the boat that might
>>>>> cause problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> - The transom rings were installed without nuts on the inside,
>>>>> - the deck leaked where the air vent for the holding tank went
>>>>> through the deck at the front - you may not have one if you don't
>>>>> have a holding tank but that is a prime spot for water to make its
>>>>> way into the core.. The softness that my deck developed when walked
>>>>> on was not due to rot as I suspected but was because the deck skin
>>>>> simply separated from the core, There was minimal sealant used to
>>>>> join the two surfaces and it simply let go. That is actually good
>>>>> news as it is possible to reattach the core by injecting epoxy
>>>>> under the skin rather than having to remove the deck and replace the
> core.
>>>>> I
>>> discovered this the hard way.
>>>>> - The keel on my boat split open at the bottom of the keel at the
>>>>> centreboard slot. I could only see it by laying flat on my back
>>>>> right under the keel - a position I rarely found myself in. The
>>>>> sharp corner seems to be the weakest point. Of course you might
>>>>> well not have that problem and I have no idea why it developed in
>>>>> mine, but by the time I realized that I had this problem it was
>>>>> probably years from the time it started and a crack had spread all
>>>>> the way around the centreboard opening. I only noticed the problem
>>>>> when I saw some of the internal filling hanging from the keel. I
>>>>> suspect that some water got into the keel and froze. I discovered
>>>>> that there were large voids in the keel where water could collect
>>>>> in substantial volume if it found its way in. It took 3 gallons of
>>>>> resin to fill the voids that I was able to find. My advice is to
>>>>> check it out before you launch. You probably will not have that
>>>>> problem but given that our boats were built so close together and
>>>>> potentially by the same builder it might be a reasonably prudent
>> examination to make.
>>>>> - The cap on my centreboard housing had been installed with a layer
>>>>> of fibreglass over it and the flange sealed with something like 3M
>>>>> 5200. I suspect that might have been a repair done by a subsequent
>>>>> owner but I can't be sure. It was a pain to remove the cap and
>>>>> impossible to do so without badly damaging it.
>>>>> - When I removed the bottom paint last summer I discovered that the
>>>>> gelcoat and even the substrate of the hull was damaged where the
>>>>> boat sat against the front struts of the trailer. Fortunately it
>>>>> isn't difficult to fix and the repair is ultimately covered by the
>>>>> bottom paint. I would look carefully in that area especially if you
>>>>> remove the existing paint. I repaired the glass by grinding out the
>>>>> damaged areas and replacing with multiple layers of cloth and epoxy.
>>>>> I plan to add some reinforcement to the inside of the hull this
>>>>> summer - particularly in that region as the fibreglass is thin
>>>>> there and dents badly on the trailer. Newer boats were built with
>>>>> thicker hulls to address that problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just because I had these problems does not mean that any of them
>>>>> will apply to you. But they did seem to me to be weak spots and you
>>>>> might be reassured to know they aren't a problem in your case.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>
>>>>> Graham Stewart
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes
>>>>> 22 Email List
>>>>> Sent: March-29-15 1:02 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Graham,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the welcome. I'm gobsmacked there are only two Rhodes
>>>>> in the whole country. Throw a rock in any marina and you'll hit a
>>>>> Catalina 22 - a very inferior design to the Rhodes to my mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> My sympathies for your major restoration. I have neither the
>>>>> skills nor the patience and am praying that my hull is sound. But
>>>>> it is good to know someone out there knows. I went to Queen's U and
>>>>> know Bath well. Beautiful country, and great sailing around
>>>>> Kingston. I'd love to trailer my boat up there - going up the
>>>>> Richelieu from Lake Champlain and then up through the endless locks
>>>>> to Lake Ontario is something I have done once and don't need to do
>>>>> again! But I read somewhere that porta-potties are forbidden on
>>>>> Ontario lakes so I'd have to plumb in a head and holding tank or risk
> getting busted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I pulled the tarp off Patience this morning and sat in the cabin
>>>>> taking stock until my feet froze. Bring on Spring!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jefferson
>>>>>
>>>>> On 15-03-28 12:28 PM, "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jefferson:
>>>>>> I am very excited to see that there may now be two Rhodes 22 boats
>>>>>> in Canada. Welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My boat, Agile, is hull number GBX220052G76 making mine a 1976 as
> well.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> number on the sail is 244. Your boat was built in May and mine in
>>>>>> July of that year so they should be almost identical. I have been
>>>>>> doing a major restoration and in the process have dissected almost
>>>>>> every part of the boat so if you need to know more about what is
>>>>>> under the skin of the boat I should be able to tell you. I am
>>>>>> located on Lake Ontario at Kinston.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is to great sailing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>> 22 Email List
>>>>>> Sent: March-28-15 10:21 AM
>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am the new owner of a '76 Rhodes, hull number GBX220092E76.
>>>>>> Despite my admiration for the beauty and ingenuity of the boat's
>>>>>> design I would likely not have dared to make the jump if I hadn't
>>>>>> discovered this site and the generosity and patience of its
>>>>>> contributors. I feel honoured to join your ranks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About me: I grew up in a sailing family. Back in the dawn of time
>>>>>> when dinosaurs roamed the earth we sailed 14' Ackroyd dinghies,
>>>>>> then Rhodes Bantams, and on to Lightnings and Flying Dutchmen and
>>>>>> most recently Flying Scots. I discovered cruising when a good
>>>>>> friend bought a Catalina 25, and promptly came down with 2
>>>>>> foot-itis - 25 became a Catalina 27, then a Columbia 31 and
>>>>>> finally a Mirage 26. We sailed on Lake
>>>>> Ontario, up the St.
>>>>>> Lawrence River past Quebec City, and all over Lake Champlain -
>>>>>> which is really an inland sea 100 miles long and up to 10 miles
>>>>>> wide in
>>> places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then he sold the Mirage, and I thought well hell, now what am I
>>>>>> going to do?
>>>>>> After a lot of looking, I came across the Rhodes and fell in love.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The boat: named "Patience," which feels quite appropriate consider
>>>>>> how long I looked for it. Among the papers inherited from the
>>>>>> previous owner is the yellowed but legible order sheet for the
>>>>>> boat in 1976, from GBC in Irvington-on-Hudson. With all the
>>>>>> options the original owner chose the bill for a brand spanking new
>>>>>> Rhodes Continental came to $8,095. The second owner bought the
>>>>>> boat in the early '80's andy sailed it on the Ottawa River, and
>>>>>> then 22 years ago, so he told me, they bought a cottage on a lake
>>>>>> too small for sailing and it has remained on its trailer under cover
> ever since.
>>>>>> I did a pretty thorough inspection with someone more experienced
>>>>>> than I, and it seems to be in pretty good shape. All original,
>>>>>> including cushion covers, the icebox, porta-potty and two burner
>>>>>> alcohol stove that was standard on RC models in '76. It is
>>>>>> equipped with a 150 genoa. The work it needs seems to be mostly
>>>>>> cosmetic, aside from running rigging which needs to be updated,
>>>>>> and if it doesn't sink to the bottom on launch day I'll be delighted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm going to moor it on Lake Memphremagog this summer while I work
>>>>>> on it, and then on Lake Champlain. I plan to send 10% of the price
>>>>>> I paid to Stan, which isn't going to thrill him since I didn't pay
>>>>>> much, and in Canadian dollars, but seems the right thing to do
>>>>>> anyway. I'm not sure what I'll be able to afford to buy from
>>>>>> General Boats, given the current exchange rates and my own budget.
>>>>>> But it will be my first stop when I go shopping.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So that's me and Patience, slowly emerging from the melting snow.
>>>>>> I have about six million questions but will try not to test your
>>>>>> patience. I can't download any attachments with "Old Nabble" in
>>>>>> the address, and if anyone could enlighten me I will continue to
>>>>>> scour the archives for answers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jefferson Lewis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>
>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>
>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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>>>
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>>
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>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>>
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>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>
> __________________________________________________
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> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>
> __________________________________________________
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