[Rhodes22-list] Ballast
The Rhodes 22 Email List
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Wed Apr 1 20:49:29 EDT 2015
I have a 1996 R22 (recycled 2012). Last spring I placed seven 26 lb. lead
bricks (2" x 4"x 8") alongside and forward of the centerboard trunk. I
cannot really gauge the effect since there are so many variables affecting
how a sailboat responds to steadily increasing windspeeds or to a gust. If
I add any more ballast I would, per Stan, place it father forward, on the
centerline just aft of the vee berth bulkhead and as low as possible.
Richard Arking R22 on Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn NY
On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 5:10 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> The boat is right beside me here in Ontario near Kingston. Want a beautiful
> 55' steel cutter hull?
>
> Graham
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 22
> Email
> List
> Sent: April-01-15 3:36 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Ballast
>
>
> Graham,
>
> Lead will soon be the new gold.
> Not really... but it IS getting harder to find with the latest EPA
> regulations. Where is your friend's boat?
>
> Todd T.
>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 at 2:05 PM
> From: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Ballast
> Sometime in 1976 the internal ballast changed from Steel bricks to
> cement. I
> don't know what is used today. Steel is obviously much denser than
> cement so
> I expect that the actual ballast weight is greater with steel than
> with the
> cement unless the volume of the cement is considerably larger.
> My neighbour has given up on the construction of a 55' steel cutter
> after
> working on it for 40 years - on and off. As a result he has tons
> (literally)
> of lead bricks and I can buy some for Agile. I had thought about
> placing
> some on either side of the centreboard housing and forward along with
> the
> steel bricks that are there already.
> Does anyone have any thoughts about how one might determine where and
> how
> much ballast might be added? At this point I am thinking that I will
> place
> some bricks loose in the bilge and play with the distribution until it
> feels
> right - but that could constitute a lot of fiddling. All that time
> spent
> sailing detracts substantially from the time I have available to work
> on the
> repair of the boat.
> Graham
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 22
> Email
> List
> Sent: April-01-15 1:32 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
> Graham:
> Ok. I didnt add the extra ballast. It had it already. I called it
> "extra"
> since i consider needing to add internal ballast a design flaw or a
> building
> shortcut (i.e. Concrete instead of lead). But hey i am not criticizing
> the
> boat, just explaining my word choice.
> Yes i too am adding LIMBER HOLES too. At 4 am i woke up remembering
> that i
> called them "stringer scuppers" yesterday which isnt nautically
> correct!
> Hahaha!
> For the main center floor stringers i cut them from 2x6" pressure
> treated
> lumber. The wider area will make adding the floor and bilge inspection
> hatch easier and acually was cheaper than 5/4" deck wood.
> I am still deciding what to do about my hull/deck joint. Access is
> good
> from inside at this point. I found these great caulk gun tubes of two
> part
> epoxy that mix as you pump it that i should be able to use to easily
> fill
> the joint. We will see! The other option is the Np-1 Rummy
> recommended.
> I think that there is also a fair amount of water that finds its way
> into
> the bilge from condensation. I am designing a solar powered bilge
> dryer.
> Another "we will see"
> Another idea is that i am adding floor vents to keep air moving under
> the
> floor boards and to allow the bilge to dry.
> Bob (palatka)
> > On Apr 1, 2015, at 1:12 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >
> > Bob:
> >
> > When you say that you installed "extra" ballast I am wondering what
> > was there already and how much you added. I would like to add some
> > myself but don't know how much or where exactly to put it.
> >
> > The stringers under the settee and galley rotted out for me as well.
> > Water gets trapped there - especially under the galley where it is
> not
> > visible and rots out the wood. The source of water for me primarily
> > was a leaking hull deck join. I have glassed the joint so that
> should
> > finally end the leaks but I also put drain holes in the bottom of
> the
> > stringers to ensure that any water that makes its way in, and it
> will,
> > can drain out on its own. Further, I put an inspection hole in the
> > bottom self of the galley so I can reach in to the space should I
> want
> > to check for water or retrieve anything the might fall in behind the
> > shelf. I am also encapsulating the settee and galley stringers in
> > multiple coats of epoxy. I am putting white Formica laminate on the
> > face of these pieces and all other wood surfaces to give a
> maintenance
> free and easy to clean interior.
> >
> > With the floor stringers I am intending to use pressure treated deck
> boards.
> > A previous owner used pressure treated fence boards and while they
> > stood up very well to rot and held to epoxy very well, being only
> 1/2"
> > thick did not give a sufficient area to screw the deck boards to. Of
> > course I will be putting drain holes in them as well.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes
> 22
> > Email List
> > Sent: March-31-15 10:05 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
> >
> > Mine is a 1983 and is in excellent condition for a boat of that age.
> > (I have had three 1983 sailboats and one 1982 sailboat) My deck is
> rock
> solid!
> > I can see under the front of my cockpit floor and it seems to have
> > pine boards set in the glass but not real sure. That floor is also
> rock
> solid.
> >
> > My floor rotted out most likely because it was stored with the hatch
> open.
> > There was one design "flaw" and it was that there were several areas
> > that trapped water. I am making sure all water can get to the bilge
> > pump. I am sure Stan probably puts in bilge scuppers in these
> stringers
> now.
> > I am rebuilding these with pressure treated wood/plywood. I dried it
> > out for several months so fiberglass will stick to it. I also have
> > had good luck with waterproof construction adhesive holding it in
> > place until the glass goes off.
> > Oh and my extra ballast is concrete glassed over just forward of the
> > main bulkhead.
> > I sealed this over with fiberglass cloth soaked in epoxy when i
> placed
> > the main bulkhead base. I didnt want the moisture in the concrete to
> > keep the wood wet.
> >
> > Bob (palatka)
> >
> >>> On Mar 31, 2015, at 8:35 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bob:
> >> Don't let me spook you. Any boat that old is bound to have some
> >> problems but just about anything can be fixed. The trick is to not
> >> let problems go too long - especially problems with the deck core.
> >> Some, if not all, of the problems I identified are probably unique
> to
> >> my boat. I don't know whether the contractors who built the older
> >> boats did the layup or just assembled the parts. Nor do I know how
> >> many contractors were used and what the differences might be
> between
> them.
> >>
> >> Many of the older boats have problems with the floor stringers
> >> rotting out - which is not a surprise given that the bilge is often
> >> wet and the stringers are wood.
> >>
> >> What is the ballast arrangement with your boat? In mine I have a
> >> stack of steel bars fiberglassed to the hull just forward of the
> >> forward
> > bulkhead.
> >> Some boats apparently have cement there.
> >>
> >> Graham
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes
> >> 22 Email List
> >> Sent: March-31-15 6:55 PM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
> >>
> >> What years were built where and by whom?
> >>
> >> Bob (palatka)
> >>
> >>>> On Mar 31, 2015, at 12:59 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Graham - thanks for clarifying the porta-potti issue. And for
> the
> >>> invitation!
> >>>
> >>> I didn't realize 76's were built by 3rd parties. That's
> unsettling.
> >>> I will check out my keel, bearing in mind the problems you have
> had.
> >>> And the other flaws you detected.
> >>>
> >>> Much appreciated,
> >>>
> >>> Jefferson
> >>>
> >>> On 15-03-29 3:55 PM, "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Jefferson:
> >>>> You can use a porta-pottie on Ontario waters so long as it is
> fixed
> >>>> in place and has a deck pump out. Most porta-potties have kits
> for
> >>>> this purpose. No need for a separate holding tank.
> >>>>
> >>>> You would be most welcome if you make the trip to my place and
> can
> >>>> tie up at my dock given that my boat is still on the hard. I also
> >>>> have a mooring that you can use. I am located just west of
> Lemoines
> >>>> Point on the north Shore of Lake Ontario.
> >>>>
> >>>> The Rhodes 22 were built under contract with 3rd parties in 1976
> >>>> and as a result some of the construction details were lacking. A
> >>>> few things that you might want to check on the boat that might
> >>>> cause problems.
> >>>>
> >>>> - The transom rings were installed without nuts on the inside,
> >>>> - the deck leaked where the air vent for the holding tank went
> >>>> through the deck at the front - you may not have one if you don't
> >>>> have a holding tank but that is a prime spot for water to make
> its
> >>>> way into the core.. The softness that my deck developed when
> walked
> >>>> on was not due to rot as I suspected but was because the deck
> skin
> >>>> simply separated from the core, There was minimal sealant used to
> >>>> join the two surfaces and it simply let go. That is actually good
> >>>> news as it is possible to reattach the core by injecting epoxy
> >>>> under the skin rather than having to remove the deck and replace
> the
> core.
> >>>> I
> >> discovered this the hard way.
> >>>> - The keel on my boat split open at the bottom of the keel at the
> >>>> centreboard slot. I could only see it by laying flat on my back
> >>>> right under the keel - a position I rarely found myself in. The
> >>>> sharp corner seems to be the weakest point. Of course you might
> >>>> well not have that problem and I have no idea why it developed in
> >>>> mine, but by the time I realized that I had this problem it was
> >>>> probably years from the time it started and a crack had spread
> all
> >>>> the way around the centreboard opening. I only noticed the
> problem
> >>>> when I saw some of the internal filling hanging from the keel. I
> >>>> suspect that some water got into the keel and froze. I discovered
> >>>> that there were large voids in the keel where water could collect
> >>>> in substantial volume if it found its way in. It took 3 gallons
> of
> >>>> resin to fill the voids that I was able to find. My advice is to
> >>>> check it out before you launch. You probably will not have that
> >>>> problem but given that our boats were built so close together and
> >>>> potentially by the same builder it might be a reasonably prudent
> > examination to make.
> >>>> - The cap on my centreboard housing had been installed with a
> layer
> >>>> of fibreglass over it and the flange sealed with something like
> 3M
> >>>> 5200. I suspect that might have been a repair done by a
> subsequent
> >>>> owner but I can't be sure. It was a pain to remove the cap and
> >>>> impossible to do so without badly damaging it.
> >>>> - When I removed the bottom paint last summer I discovered that
> the
> >>>> gelcoat and even the substrate of the hull was damaged where the
> >>>> boat sat against the front struts of the trailer. Fortunately it
> >>>> isn't difficult to fix and the repair is ultimately covered by
> the
> >>>> bottom paint. I would look carefully in that area especially if
> you
> >>>> remove the existing paint. I repaired the glass by grinding out
> the
> >>>> damaged areas and replacing with multiple layers of cloth and
> epoxy.
> >>>> I plan to add some reinforcement to the inside of the hull this
> >>>> summer - particularly in that region as the fibreglass is thin
> >>>> there and dents badly on the trailer. Newer boats were built with
> >>>> thicker hulls to address that problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just because I had these problems does not mean that any of them
> >>>> will apply to you. But they did seem to me to be weak spots and
> you
> >>>> might be reassured to know they aren't a problem in your case.
> >>>>
> >>>> Take care,
> >>>>
> >>>> Graham Stewart
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
> Rhodes
> >>>> 22 Email List
> >>>> Sent: March-29-15 1:02 PM
> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Graham,
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you for the welcome. I'm gobsmacked there are only two
> Rhodes
> >>>> in the whole country. Throw a rock in any marina and you'll hit a
> >>>> Catalina 22 - a very inferior design to the Rhodes to my mind.
> >>>>
> >>>> My sympathies for your major restoration. I have neither the
> >>>> skills nor the patience and am praying that my hull is sound. But
> >>>> it is good to know someone out there knows. I went to Queen's U
> and
> >>>> know Bath well. Beautiful country, and great sailing around
> >>>> Kingston. I'd love to trailer my boat up there - going up the
> >>>> Richelieu from Lake Champlain and then up through the endless
> locks
> >>>> to Lake Ontario is something I have done once and don't need to
> do
> >>>> again! But I read somewhere that porta-potties are forbidden on
> >>>> Ontario lakes so I'd have to plumb in a head and holding tank or
> risk
> getting busted.
> >>>>
> >>>> I pulled the tarp off Patience this morning and sat in the cabin
> >>>> taking stock until my feet froze. Bring on Spring!
> >>>>
> >>>> Jefferson
> >>>>
> >>>> On 15-03-28 12:28 PM, "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Jefferson:
> >>>>> I am very excited to see that there may now be two Rhodes 22
> boats
> >>>>> in Canada. Welcome.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My boat, Agile, is hull number GBX220052G76 making mine a 1976
> as
> well.
> >>>>> The
> >>>>> number on the sail is 244. Your boat was built in May and mine
> in
> >>>>> July of that year so they should be almost identical. I have
> been
> >>>>> doing a major restoration and in the process have dissected
> almost
> >>>>> every part of the boat so if you need to know more about what is
> >>>>> under the skin of the boat I should be able to tell you. I am
> >>>>> located on Lake Ontario at Kinston.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here is to great sailing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Graham
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
> >>>>> Rhodes
> >>>>> 22 Email List
> >>>>> Sent: March-28-15 10:21 AM
> >>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Permission to come aboard?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am the new owner of a '76 Rhodes, hull number GBX220092E76.
> >>>>> Despite my admiration for the beauty and ingenuity of the boat's
> >>>>> design I would likely not have dared to make the jump if I
> hadn't
> >>>>> discovered this site and the generosity and patience of its
> >>>>> contributors. I feel honoured to join your ranks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> About me: I grew up in a sailing family. Back in the dawn of
> time
> >>>>> when dinosaurs roamed the earth we sailed 14' Ackroyd dinghies,
> >>>>> then Rhodes Bantams, and on to Lightnings and Flying Dutchmen
> and
> >>>>> most recently Flying Scots. I discovered cruising when a good
> >>>>> friend bought a Catalina 25, and promptly came down with 2
> >>>>> foot-itis - 25 became a Catalina 27, then a Columbia 31 and
> >>>>> finally a Mirage 26. We sailed on Lake
> >>>> Ontario, up the St.
> >>>>> Lawrence River past Quebec City, and all over Lake Champlain -
> >>>>> which is really an inland sea 100 miles long and up to 10 miles
> >>>>> wide in
> >> places.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Then he sold the Mirage, and I thought well hell, now what am I
> >>>>> going to do?
> >>>>> After a lot of looking, I came across the Rhodes and fell in
> love.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The boat: named "Patience," which feels quite appropriate
> consider
> >>>>> how long I looked for it. Among the papers inherited from the
> >>>>> previous owner is the yellowed but legible order sheet for the
> >>>>> boat in 1976, from GBC in Irvington-on-Hudson. With all the
> >>>>> options the original owner chose the bill for a brand spanking
> new
> >>>>> Rhodes Continental came to $8,095. The second owner bought the
> >>>>> boat in the early '80's andy sailed it on the Ottawa River, and
> >>>>> then 22 years ago, so he told me, they bought a cottage on a
> lake
> >>>>> too small for sailing and it has remained on its trailer under
> cover
> ever since.
> >>>>> I did a pretty thorough inspection with someone more experienced
> >>>>> than I, and it seems to be in pretty good shape. All original,
> >>>>> including cushion covers, the icebox, porta-potty and two burner
> >>>>> alcohol stove that was standard on RC models in '76. It is
> >>>>> equipped with a 150 genoa. The work it needs seems to be mostly
> >>>>> cosmetic, aside from running rigging which needs to be updated,
> >>>>> and if it doesn't sink to the bottom on launch day I'll be
> delighted.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm going to moor it on Lake Memphremagog this summer while I
> work
> >>>>> on it, and then on Lake Champlain. I plan to send 10% of the
> price
> >>>>> I paid to Stan, which isn't going to thrill him since I didn't
> pay
> >>>>> much, and in Canadian dollars, but seems the right thing to do
> >>>>> anyway. I'm not sure what I'll be able to afford to buy from
> >>>>> General Boats, given the current exchange rates and my own
> budget.
> >>>>> But it will be my first stop when I go shopping.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So that's me and Patience, slowly emerging from the melting
> snow.
> >>>>> I have about six million questions but will try not to test your
> >>>>> patience. I can't download any attachments with "Old Nabble" in
> >>>>> the address, and if anyone could enlighten me I will continue to
> >>>>> scour the archives for answers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jefferson Lewis
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>>> [1]http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
> >>>>> archives go to [2]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>>> [3]http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>>
> >>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
> >>>> archives go to [4]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >>> [5]http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>>
> >>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
> >>> archives go to [6]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> >> [7]http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>
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> >> archives go to [8]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
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> >> [9]http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> >>
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> >> archives go to [10]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
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> > go to [12]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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> >
> > __________________________________________________
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