[Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
The Rhodes 22 Email List
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Fri Jan 16 13:06:39 EST 2015
Thanks Todd:
I am glad to see this discussion arise. My stringers were glassed to the hull the full length with some cut outs to allow water to drain Also the port side seat front and the base of the cabinet on the starboard side were also glassed to the hull on the inside but without drains - which I found were needed as water did get in there. I am thinking that the central stringers are over the outer edge of the keel housing where there would be very little flex in the hull but further up would be a different matter. I have seen bats constructed with a series of hollow beams glasses to the hull that were intended to add rigidity. Similarly bulkheads reduce flex where they touch the hull. So this raises the question in my mind about when hull flexibility is a good thing and when is it not?
Is Todd's construction typical - especially in older boats? I would appreciate any feedback.
Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 22 Email List
Sent: January-16-15 11:08 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
Graham,
I've had a couple older boats and from what I have seen, the
stringers, especially the two center most, are only to support the
cabin floor. Mine didn't rest on the hull/bilge. They were tied into
the bulkheads on the ends and only tabbed down to the bilge along
their fore/aft length. The gaps between tabs allowed water to flow to
the center of the bilge area. There was about ¼" between the bottom
of the stringers and the bilge contour.
The stringers were coated in epoxy. But from years of hull flexing and
the movement between the floor and stringers, the epoxy was worn
through on the tops of the stringers. When the bilge filled and
overran, the stringer's open top edge allowed water to penetrate. If
you decide to coat the stringers in epoxy, I'd suggest thickening the
mix or laying a layer or two of glass on that top edge
The two outer stringers (under the settee edge and under the gallery
opening) are only about an inch or so tall. I've never removed these
two but I assume, because of their height and because those side areas
do hold water, that they are epoxied to the hull.
Todd T.
--
Sent from my Android phone with [1]mail.com Mail. Please excuse my
brevity.
The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
Graham,
I don't think any quality boat builder has ever bonded a fiberglass
hull to
stringers with epoxy. Stringers are rigid, fiberglass hulls are
flexible.
Since epoxy cannot absorb flex, the hull would be prone to crack
along the
edges of the stringers bonded with epoxy.
Another caveat on epoxy is using it to coat wood. Anything that
keeps
water out, keeps water in. If you coat stringers with epoxy, you
will need
to follow the same sealing protocol when drilling holes into
epoxied
stringers as you do with the wood cored deck. It would be more
convenient
to coat your new stringers with a bilge primer/sealer.
Rick
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:39 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> Bob:
> I think any of your alternatives might work but when I install
mine next
> summer I intend to use epoxy with fibreglass tape for these
reasons:
> 1, I have done a lot of work with epoxy and am comfortable using
it and I
> have it along with the fillers on hand,
> 2, wood adequately encapsulated in epoxy (3+ coats) should be
impervious to
> rot permitting the use of less expensive wood,
> 3, bonded to the hull the stringers would add very significantly
to the
> rigidity of the hull, and
> 4, the stringers will not flex and therefore will not come loose.
>
> I don't know how important point three is but given that the
original
> stringers were boned to the hull with cloth and polyester resin,
I would
> feel safer doing the same. Polyester is the other choice. It is
much
> cheaper
> than epoxy but not a strong and not impervious to water vapour.
>
> Graham
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
Rhodes 22
> Email
> List
> Sent: January-15-15 1:05 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
>
> Ok let me stir the pot again. Should i bed my new stringers in
5200 or
> epoxy them in or fiberglass tape and resin??
> Thoughts anyone?
> Bob
>
> > On Jan 15, 2015, at 12:07 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >
> > 5200 is also permanent! Don't use it if you think you might
ever want
> > or need to remove it.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
Rhodes 22
> > Email List
> > Sent: January-15-15 10:04 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > 3M 5200 is an adhesive, not a sealant. A silicone sealant will
give
> > you better results.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:55 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
> > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Graham: Yes that is what i meant. These boats have a
notoriously
> >> leaky hull to deck joint. Stan explained it was due to the
workers
> >> ineptitude he had applying the joint caulk during those years.
They
> >> probably caulked the seam after the hull and deck were
fastened
> >> instead of caulking both sides then putting the sandwich
together and
> >> just
> > wiping away the excess.
> >> I am going to remove the rail, clean out as much old caulk as
i can
> >> and then seal it with 3m 5200 and re-attach the rub rail. It
shouldnt
> >> leak any more. I did this once before on an 80's era boat and
it
> >> worked
> > great.
> >> Shortcuts were happening in every industry back then.
> >>
> >>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 9:43 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
> >>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I doubt that it is the rub rail that is leaking. If it is
leaking
> >>> through the screw holes you might get away with just removing
the
> >>> screws one at a time and reinserting with sealant. It is more
likely
> >>> that the leak is
> >> behind
> >>> the rub rail where the deck and hull join.
> >>>
> >>> Graham
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
Rhodes
> >>> 22
> >> Email
> >>> List
> >>> Sent: January-15-15 6:56 AM
> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Rummy.
> >>> Yes i already have the bleach and scrub brush out there. I am
going
> >>> to
> >> do
> >>> the rub rail first though. Very leaky boat!
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 5:06 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm sure you are aware of this,but the photo shows a great
deal of
> > mold.
> >>>> You might want to clean the area really good with a soapy
bleach
> >>>> solution prior to installing the new stringers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Rummy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> In a message dated 1/14/2015 9:29:05 P.M. Eastern Standard
Time,
> >>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>[2]
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/2015011
> >>>> 4/6
> >>>> 474727
> >>>> 0/attachment.JPG
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