[Rhodes22-list] Window replacement update

Wed Jun 3 13:50:03 EDT 2015

Ah-ha! thanks for the explanation. I knew I was missing something!

thanks!
Mary Lou
R22 Fretless
Rock Hall, MD

At 12:31 PM 6/3/2015, you wrote:
>Mary Lou:
>
>I will paint the inside of the acrylic panel everywhere except where the
>openings will be. I intend to do this by removing the protective paper
>everywhere except the port opening, then paint the panel and finally remove
>the paper over the opening once the panel is installed. In the picture I
>provided with the panels painted the paper covering is still over the port
>area so it looks solid. You can't see the paper covering in the picture. I
>could remove the paper before I install the panel but it seems sensible to
>leave that area protected from scratches and any sealant that might get
>smeared on it during installation.
>
>I have attached a picture showing the plywood template, for the panel, the
>Formica template (white) for the opening and the two acrylic panels with the
>protective paper still on and the opening areas marked.
>
>The acrylic panel is deep tinted so perhaps nothing will show through but
>the tinting is not opaque and I suspect that in sunlight the grey tape and
>white cabin will show. I don't have a spare piece of the tinted acrylic to
>test this as I had the dealer cut the original panel for me using a plywood
>template that I provided. I should have asked for some scrap piece. I did
>have some clear acrylic that I used to test painting and the cutting and
>removal of the paper. I have attached a picture of the clear acrylic,
>partially painted and with the opening protective paper pealed back on both
>sides. That might make what I am describing a litter easier to follow.
>
>I have attached a picture of the boat with the lexan windows that I attached
>back in 1995. The picture was taken 20 years later when the paint had pealed
>and you can see the cabin and peeling paint under through the Lexan. Hence
>my obsession with using the right paint.
>
>For more about my paint selection I have attached a picture of panels of
>Lexan coated with various paints along with observational comments. I think
>it demonstrates fairly well why the barbeque paint seemed superior for this
>task.
>
>I hope that helps.
>
>Graham
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 22 Email
>List
>Sent: June-02-15 11:51 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Window replacement update
>
>Nice write up Graham but I must be missing a sentence or an email or
>something.
>
>If you are going to have Lexan windows, why paint them? I read the part
>about "to make sure that the grey tape and white sides of the cabin did not
>show through" but if you are painting the whole window why use Lexan at all?
>Or can you still see out through the paint? do the windows let light in?
>
>I'm confused.
>
>Mary Lou
>1991 R22 Fretless
>(recycled 1998)
>still on the hard
>but just about ready
>to splash for the season
>in Rock Hall, MD
>
>
>
>At 11:16 AM 6/2/2015, you wrote:
> >For those who are interested in replacing cabin ports with acrylic
> >panels, I thought I would bring you up to date on my highly scientific
> >experiments using the method of attaching windows without using any
> >hardware.
> >
> >My experiments were intended to demonstrate for me the strength of a
> >joint using Dow Corning silicone # 795 and 3M brand tape VHB 4991 and
> >the paint I intended to use to coat the inside of the acrylic panel.
> >
> >First, I joined some pieces of Lexan I had using the tape and the
> >sealant and let it sit for 48 hours for the sealant to cure. At  48
> >hours the sealant is about 90% cured but it continues to cure for 72
> >hours. I couldn't wait that long. I attached a small piece of lexan
> >(about 1.5" x 3") to a larger piece at a corner. I messed up the
> >sealant with the result that I got some on top of the tape - which
> >seems like a distinct possibility when I do the large panels so I was
> >curious to see what effect that had. By leaving the smaller piece
> >extending beyond the larger piece I had a tab that I could use to peal
> >the pieces apart. I have attached a picture of what I call the "flex
> >test".
> >
> >By holding the main piece down and lifting up on the tab I was able to
> >bend the panels far beyond any curvature on the cabin side of the boat
> >without any sign of the joint letting g. Also. the joint had enough
> >flex that the panels could move past each other slightly to allow for a
> >nice even bend. When I bent the joint to the maximum the lexan broke
> >(see photo) before any sign that the joint was weakening. Lexan is very
> >flexible and strong so that seemed to me to be a good sign although I
> >should note that the Lexan was only 3/16"
> >thick. I figure that if I can't break the join even on small pieces
> >without destroying the Lexan, that has to be a very strong and flexible
>joint.
> >
> >As an aside, the sealant has a useful life of one year. When I ordered
> >mine it was already 8 months old and expired in March 2015.
> >I called 3M last fall to see if there was any way to extend the life of
> >the material. The technical support person told me to seal it up in
> >plastic and put it in my freezer - which I did. He then told me to test
> >it before using it by laying out a bead and letting it sit for 3 hours.
> >If it skinned over, it was good but if it stayed wet it will never cure
> >- even though it looks fine coming out of the tube.
> >I Had thought that old material would harden in the tube so that was
> >potentially very useful to know. I have read online where others
> >complained that this sealant never cured and I expect they were using
> >material that was too old. In my case it appears the freezing worked as
> >the sealant cured up nicely.
> >
> >Although the acrylic panels I am using are dark tinted, I wanted to
> >make sure that the grey tape and white sides of the cabin did not show
> >through so I needed to find a suitable paint to coat the inside. I
> >wanted something that would adhere tenaciously to acrylic so that in
> >turn the tape and sealant would adhere to the paint. I also wanted
> >something that would apply by spray to give a perfectly even coat and
> >preferably was fast drying. Articles I read advised using engine
> >exhaust paint. The particular types suggested were not available
> >locally and a ridiculous price to order by mail across the Canada/US
> >border. Also I noticed that application instructions for similar paints
> >available locally specified that it dries easily but does not cure
> >until it is brought up to a high heat. That , of course , is not going
> >to happen with acrylic so I was left wondering how it would work in an
> >uncured state.
> >
> >I experimented with a number of paints - especially paints that are
> >intended for plastic. The first time I did this in 1995 I used some
> >sort of enamel that subsequently pealed of even though it was between
> >the Lexan and the cabin side. It was thick, soft and had poor adhesion
> >with Lexan. So I wanted something better than that.  I noticed that the
> >paints I was testing went on thick and took a long time to dry. They
> >also scratched off too easily for my liking. I then tried some barbeque
> >paint that I had. The paint is intended for high heat applications but
> >had a maximum temperature of 600 degrees
> >- which is much lower than the exhaust paint but still much higher than
> >anything the boat will ever face before I am jumping overboard and it
> >does not require heat to cure. It also sprays on beautifully in thin
> >coats, dries to touch in a few minutes - no dust problems - and can be
> >recoated several time within an hour. That meant that I could apply
> >multiple thin and even coats. It give!
> >  s a satin finish rather than high gloss which I thought might make  a
> >better surface for the tape to adhere to. I first painted pieces  of
> >Lexan and clear acrylic and let it sit for about 3 months to see  if
> >there was any indication of incompatibility between the paint  and the
> >plastic. There was no sign of incompatibility that I could see.
> >
> >I tested the adhesion of the paint by trying to scratch it off soon
> >after application and after several months and by applying a variety of
> >tapes - duct tape and packing tape, house wrap tape etc, - and then
> >peal it back both while the paint was fresh and after the tape had been
> >in place for several months. As the flex test shows I also tried
> >adhesion with the double-sided tape and, as noted, the lexan broke
> >before the seal showed any sign of letting go. I also applied sealant,
> >let it cure , and tried to remove it by pealing it back.
> >The "paint test" is shown in an attached picture. It shows packing tape
> >that had been left in place for several months. The tape was firmly
> >attached but came off cleanly leaving the paint firmly attached to the
> >Lexan. Scratching the paint with a sharp object left a scratch, of
> >course,  but did not remove any of the surrounding paint. So I think
> >this is a good paint for this application.
> >
> >To prepare the windows, I cut the acrylic panels from a 1/8" plywood
> >template, routed a slight bevel on the outside edges, laid out where
> >the opening in the cabin were, made a template for consistent openings
> >made out of Formica (which works well because it is thin and hard) and
> >then cut the protective paper around what will be the openings using
> >the template and exacto knife. I then removed all the protective
> >covering except where the openings will be and painted the pieces with
> >four thin coats of barbeque paint. I have attached a photo of the
> >painted pieces.
> >
> >After the acrylic is attached to the boat I will remove the masking
> >tape on the outside of the acrylic panes, the tape on the cabin sides
> >and remove the protective paper from the outside of the panels and the
> >inside of the open part.  I tested whether I would be able to peel off
> >the inside sections once it had been painted over especially given that
> >it will be difficult to raise an edge once the panels are installed. I
> >found that if I apply a strip of packing tape to the covering paper
> >leaving the end folded over so I can grab it, when I peal it back the
> >tape holds sufficiently to raise the protective paper cleanly avoiding
> >the need to scratch up an edge.
> >Hopefully that works in the real life situation. I would hate to have
> >acrylic panels permanently attached with paper coving the opening that
> >I can't remove.
> >
> >So I have chosen all the materials and tested them as best I can for
> >suitability. I have also worked out a temporary clamping system to hold
> >the panels in place while the tape and sealant cure. That might be
> >unnecessary but given the curve of the cabin I don't want to take a
> >chance on that part. I have masked the boat around the edge of the
> >acrylic and sanded the paint on the cabin side so that is flat , smooth
> >but dulled (220 grit). Now all that is left is to attach the actual
> >panels and frankly that is what worries me most. While online
> >instructions suggest applying the tape and sealant to the panel and
> >then apply the panel to the boat, my thinking is that because the cabin
> >side is a compound curve I would be better to apply the tape and
> >sealant to the cabin and then press the panel into place.
> >
> >Time matters. I don't have forever to apply the sealant and remove the
> >tape cover before pressing the panel on and worse still, I only get one
> >chance to get the panel in the exact location. There is really no room
> >for error. I have "rehearsed" placing the panel with my wife but that
> >was without any of the tape or sealant. The cabin side has a moulded in
> >edge at both the bottom and the aft end that are very helpful guides
> >but one still need to make sure from the moment of first touch that
> >everything is aligned perfectly so that the rest will wrap into place
> >exactly where it is supposed to be. My hope is that I can rest the
> >bottom edge and aft corner against the little raised edge first and
> >then wrap the piece up into place at the top.
> >
> >If anyone has any clever ideas about how I could make the process idiot
> >proof I would be forever grateful.  The idea of having to use a chisel
> >and grinder to remove the misaligned panels has no appeal to me at this
> >juncture. I think I will need a very good shot of Rummy's Mont Gay
> >medicine to calm my nerves first.
> >
> >
> >Graham
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> >-----
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> >Version: 2015.0.5961 / Virus Database: 4355/9924 - Release Date:
> >06/02/15
>
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>-----
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