[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22 Mailman list and DMARC issues

Thu Apr 14 12:55:36 EDT 2016

Mike,

This is better.  We all have favorites and not so much.  This helps you to
scan the list postings to easily choose the postings you want to read.

Rick

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 11:25 AM, John Lock <jlock at relevantarts.com> wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> I'm glad there was an option to return the list to (more or less) normal
> operation.  Nobody had a problem with it before, so I can only assume that
> everyone will applaud the return to the way it used to be.  Thanks for the
> update!
>
> --
> Cheers!
> John Lock
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> Lake Sinclair, GA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> On 2016-04-14 11:11, Michael Weisner wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> I actually searched the archives to make sure that it wasn't a "bug".  I
>> remembered when you set the list to anonymous and why but wanted to read it
>> again.  I stared in horror at the recent archives that no longer identified
>> the message originator (they were all Rhodes 22 email list)!
>>
>> Since we were not really concerned about list or email privacy (most of
>> us have fairly wide digital footprints), I wanted to enable the source
>> identities again, if possible.  Mailman 2.1.18 has a few new tricks to deal
>> with DMARC than 2.1.9 had.  It made the decision to upgrade the list during
>> the server move worthwhile.
>>
>> I hope that no one is offended by the reintroduction of identifiers.  If
>> you want to remain anonymous, please email me at
>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org and I will see if there is a solution
>> other than not posting to "da list".
>>
>> Mike
>> s/v Windlass ('91)
>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>> Behalf Of John Lock
>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:44 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22 Mailman list and DMARC issues
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> Thanks for the recap on the issues involved in managing mailing lists in
>> an increasing complex environment.  Although I described the problem back
>> when I changed the list to anonymous, it bears repeating and a little
>> additional background is helpful.  It's tough to grasp the implications of
>> small changes in email delivery if you're not a technical person dealing
>> with it daily.
>>
>> I'm glad to see that Mailman has stepped up to the challenge and I see
>> the list headers now reflect an accurate (and personal) From: address. Yay!
>>
>> Now we just wait to see if this gets accepted by the ISPs with the tight
>> DMARC rules. Time will tell...
>>
>> --
>> Cheers!
>> John Lock
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>> Lake Sinclair, GA
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>> On 2016-04-14 09:43, Michael Weisner wrote:
>>
>>> This posting is not about sailing.  If you are interested in the
>>> mechanics of the mail delivery via “da list” you may find this posting
>>> worth the time to read.  If not, just hit DELETE and wait for mail about
>>> sailing.
>>>
>>>
>>> The lack of a sender’s name in the From line of the Rhodes22-list is not
>>> a bug.  It is the direct result of trying to comply with the DMARC email
>>> rules.
>>>
>>>
>>> In an attempt to reduce the quantity of spam, ISPs have created hurdles
>>> for mailing lists using DMARC (Domain-based Message Authentication,
>>> Reporting & Conformance) standards.  It adds a reporting function that
>>> allows senders and receivers to improve and monitor protection of the
>>> domain from fraudulent email.
>>>
>>>
>>> To prevent issues with DMARC which caused automated member unsubscribing
>>> from “da list” due to ISP rejected emails in the past, John removed the
>>> sender information, making “da list” anonymous.  This worked and we were
>>> able to continue to send and receive emails as a list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The current list server was built with a new and improved version of the
>>> mailman list manager (2.1.18) which attempts to fix the DMARC issue.  The
>>> developers of the mailman software have published the following:
>>>
>>>
>>> DMARC is a standard developed as a technique to reduce email spam and
>>> phishing.  Unfortunately, it has negative consequences for mailing lists,
>>> essentially breaking long established mailing list norms, standards, and
>>> behaviors.   Yahoo! recently began publishing a DMARC policy for rejecting
>>> all messages that fail the signature tests, and every mailing list with
>>> Yahoo! members started seeing bounces from these members.  This has caused
>>> the Mailman community of members, list administrators, and developers
>>> enormous pain.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mitigating the effects of the DMARC reject policy are difficult.  All
>>> known mitigation techniques break some user expectations and/or degrade the
>>> user experience.  Still, it's incumbent on the Mailman developers to try to
>>> reduce the pain our users feel, and to provide some options for site and
>>> list administrators who find themselves caught in the middle.   This page
>>> attempts to capture the Mailman developers' current thinking about the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Solutions are difficult and complicated.  The DMARC authors essentially
>>> acknowledge that adopting DMARC requires changing mailing list habits.  You
>>> cannot continue to run your mailing list the way you always have, in DMARC
>>> compatible way.  Mailman 2.1.16 was the first version that added some
>>> workarounds for DMARC rejections, with refinements ongoing in subsequent
>>> releases.
>>>
>>>
>>> As a result, I have changed the list configuration from “anonymous”  to
>>> “Rewrite the From: header with the posters name 'via the list' and the
>>> list's address and merge the poster's address into Reply-To:” in an effort
>>> to restore some of the sender’s information.  If it works, great!  if I
>>> start getting a lot of rejected emails due to DMARC, I will set us to
>>> anonymous again.  This is a test.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> s/v Windlass ('91)
>>>
>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:54 PM
>>> Robert,
>>>
>>>
>>> The lack of transparent names is kind of unique to this list.  It’s not
>>> a feature, it’s a bug.
>>>
>>>
>>> {clip}
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Nyberg
>>>
>>> Coventry, CT
>>>
>>> No Boat Yet (but next week, according to the current plan)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 13, 2016, at 8:55 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List < <mailto:
>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the info and encouragement.  I an new to the list and did
>>>> not realize that names or user names did not appear.
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
>>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>