[Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Waterproofing

Mon Feb 20 09:34:53 EST 2017

Hi Jay,

Nice to see you on the list again.  This is Joe Riley.  We and our ladies all had lunch together in Port Townsend about four years ago.  I often watched the sail boats going out of Port Townsend and wondered how my Rhodes 22  and I would handle the winds and weather off your coast.  I remember unexpected weather would sometimes shut down the ferry service.  The fact that you are now in your 5th season of sailing those waters in a Rhodes 22 speaks highly of your skills despite the less than "blue water" qualities of the Rhodes 22.  I have read reviews that point out the limited self bailing afforded by the size of the drain holes make the Rhodes 22 not the best choice as a passage maker.  Yet at least one owner has taken it across the gulf stream to the islands and back.  I had not read accounts of the concave shape catching the wind but could see how that might happen.  Other than a rumored story of Rummy purposely setting out to capsize under sail, I have not read of any accounts of this happening.       

I have a confirming story of the 175 jib and the flair that just happened last weekend.  The winds on Lake Hartwell were piping at 15 to 20 knots with gusts beyond 30.  My adult daughter, Katie, and I were determined to get out on the lake but not sure we would actually sail.   We motored out and after awhile I got the courage to cut the motor and pull out a few feet of main and jib.  I am cautious and I thought I heard Rummy, who sailed these waters, laugh and yell over the wind to "let it all out!"   I was pleased that the boat was almost flat despite the strong winds and we were sailing in control.  The waves were cresting and I experienced surfing for the first time on the boat as we went done wind.  My daughter did a good job of pointing the boat between the narrow islands that have appeared due to the drought.  We were on a down wind run when my favorite hat, a tilley with both seat belts on went sailing off.  I told my daughter to bring us around on a broad reach.  I intended to take in what little sail we had out and motor back to find the hat.  Eager to get back to my hat while it was still In view I lifted the furling line from its cam cleat without taking any pressure off the in-play jib sheet.  One of the forcasted gusts hit the jib and pulled the tighly held line through my hand causing one searing rope burn and making me let go of the line.  The postage stamp storm sail grew into a 175 genoa at the speed of wind and Second Wind went to an angle that put the curved hull in the water  I took over the tiller and brought the bow enough into the wind so Katie was able to partially pull in the jib.  I crabbed into and out of the wind until she was able to get all the jib rolled back in.  I never did find the hat but did gain new respect for the power behind the 175 and the safety net of the flaired hull.  I also neglected to pull the fenders aboard when we left the dock.  When the gust hit, the jib sheet came up under the three fender lines and lifted those heavy white fenders skyward so it looked like Chinese lanterns hanging from the line.  It was that sight that had Katie thinking Captain Dad, despite his calm expression, was no longer in charge.  

Accodring to Stan, the Rhodes 22 has a practical wind velocity limitation of about 28 knots.  The Rhodes can stretch this limit because of its dual furling sails and boom lowering feature.  He points out the boat will go like the wind in 50 knots but tacking would be impossible.  He also mentions in his guide that in heavy airs the genoa furling line may require the muscle of the stongest crew member and if necessary the running of the furling line to the genoa winch.  I doubt I could  have handled the tiller and the furling line alone in those winds.  Even with the two of us it was an exciting few minutes.  I should have jibed and come around into the wind but that thought didn't come to me until the second beer in our debriefing session back at the dock.   So Jay, keep us informed about sailing a Rhodes in extreme conditions.  I think it is great that you would consider making adaptions to the boat rather than give it up for a different one.  I miss those breath taking views your sailing grounds.  I still remember the blue water stories you told of adventures on that schooner voyage down to San Francisco.  Let me know if you are ever in this area and I will introduce you to "mostly" stress free lake sailing  

Joe Riley
s/v Second Wind
Lake Hartwell

-----Original Message-----
 From: Jay Curry <jac2 at wavecable.com>
 To: rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
 Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2017 3:57 pm
 Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Waterproofing

 Hi Folks. Here goes.... Been a while since I have been on the list. I own a 1992 factory refurbished Rhodes 22 with IMF purchased in 2012. This summer will be our 5th full season with the boat. I sail it in Sequim Bay and in the Straight of Juan De Fuca near Sequim and Port Angeles, WA. We no longer use the 175 Jib and instead use a 100% jib set up with a self tailing rig as a well as the standard jib sheets. Both jib sheet arrangements are always connected and can be used alternately for any conditions. As a result, the boat is stable and safe for single handling in even high wind conditions, something impossible with the 175 jib unless you have a crew. On a minor note, the concave shape of the hull catches high winds, heels the boat and allows it to be "sailed" with the sails down when the winds are up. That is not a good thing. I am still not sold on the concave shape. It may be great for preventing splashing, but from a safety standpoint, I think it has its draw backs.

 Outside the protected Bay, conditions can change in a heart beat and subject the boat to high winds and if those winds oppose the current, significant wave heights. The nearest islands are a 30 mile trip and weather windows are not always accurate due to all the micro climates in the area. They do not even try to forecast local winds. As you all know, the cockpit pan that sits under the hull cap and cockpit seats is open on the top edge. Any wave splashing over the stern will easily enter the boat cabin from over the top edges of that cockpit pan under the seats. The single drain hole at the back of the cockpit floor is completely inadequate for allowing large amounts of water to escape quickly. Successive waves would easily swamp the boat and require extensive bailing. In addition, you cold easily find yourself "surfing" some waves requiring solid steering control to prevent capsizing. The boat is very susceptible to loss of steering and to digging into the water if the wave
 hits from the stern. Any review of the stories where the rare capsizing has happened with this boat will confirm that scenario. So...

 Two items of interest.

 1. I know that at least one owner in Florida who sails the Atlantic has sealed the cockpit pan top edges. How he did it is not known. There are two alternatives. One would be to glass between the top edges of the pan and the underside of the seat. The other would be to install walls from the front edge of the seats to the floor of the cockpit. But, this alternative would have to be very strong. The last problem is how to create a self bailing arrangement. If you extended the center section of the cockpit floor to the stern under the stern seat, you would sacrifice some storage, but have a very adequate path to evacuate water and maintain the structural strength of the stern.

 Has anyone on the list done this or researched it?

 2. Any ideas on how to use a different rudder configuration or larger rudder with the existing stern configuration to allow a more robust steering control in forced, unavoidable surfing situations?

 Thanks in advance for any input you have. I am also open to any questions.

 Jay
 Port Angeles, WA

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