[Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Waterproofing

Mon Feb 20 15:42:02 EST 2017

Hi Joe! I remember our lunch. It was great to meet you guys and it is
wonderful to hear you are doing (healing) well. I loved your story. In a
scramble letting that 175 get away from you is very easy and your are
immediately faced with all the little things you forgot to do or failed to
consider. I have been there many times. Thanks for sharing it. I feel a bit
guilty about not staying in touch. It is just my nature to keep my social
activities to a minimum. Being on the list and dealing with all this is
painful. I only do it in the hope of getting some really useful idea I have
not considered. Aside from Rick, most folks so far have tried to be helpful.

Years ago, as I was preparing to leave a remote anchor point after a weekend
in the Apostle Islands, (Sand Island) we faced a nearly 16 mile return trip
and winds were sustained at 30 gusting to 40 on the windward side. We had no
choice but to make the return. Just before hauling in the anchor, my
favorite leather hat blew off. I untied the dingy and tried to retrieve it.
Big, Big mistake. The wind was blowing from the island into over 100 miles
of open lake. Even though we were on the lee side of the island, the wind
caught the dingy so fast that I had to attempt a return almost immediately.
It took almost 15 minutes to make a 25 foot return to the boat. I was nearly
dead when I reached it. The hat is still there. Had I not reached the boat,
I would have been miles out into open lake before anyone could have reached
me. It would have been an extremely embarrassing coast guard rescue.

Calls for coast guard assistance were a daily occurrence in the islands and
they responded only if life was immediately at risk. In most cases they just
told you to throw out an anchor and call for a tow when it caught on
something. The point is that by the time a response is made, every boat in
the islands is listening in. I would have never lived that one down. Little
things like that teach you over time that a calm considered reaction is
always the best course. But, that is very very hard to do. I spent much of
my early career climbing utility poles. New climbers, despite the warnings
always hugged the pole the first time they slipped. Getting pencil size
splinters pulled out of you for several hours at the hospital fixes that
inclination in a heart beat. Reactions to sailing emergencies are much the
same and the same learning process seems to happen with each new boat.

Take care and write me off the list sometime. Always nice to hear from folks
we know.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sling via Rhodes22-list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 6:34 AM
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Waterproofing

>
>
>
> Hi Jay,
>
>
> Nice to see you on the list again.  This is Joe Riley.  We and our ladies
> all had lunch together in Port Townsend about four years ago.  I often
> watched the sail boats going out of Port Townsend and wondered how my
> Rhodes 22  and I would handle the winds and weather off your coast.  I
> remember unexpected weather would sometimes shut down the ferry service.
> The fact that you are now in your 5th season of sailing those waters in a
> Rhodes 22 speaks highly of your skills despite the less than "blue water"
> qualities of the Rhodes 22.  I have read reviews that point out the
> limited self bailing afforded by the size of the drain holes make the
> Rhodes 22 not the best choice as a passage maker.  Yet at least one owner
> has taken it across the gulf stream to the islands and back.  I had not
> read accounts of the concave shape catching the wind but could see how
> that might happen.  Other than a rumored story of Rummy purposely setting
> out to capsize under sail, I have not read of any acc
> ounts of this happening.
>
>
>
>
> I have a confirming story of the 175 jib and the flair that just happened
> last weekend.  The winds on Lake Hartwell were piping at 15 to 20 knots
> with gusts beyond 30.  My adult daughter, Katie, and I were determined to
> get out on the lake but not sure we would actually sail.   We motored out
> and after awhile I got the courage to cut the motor and pull out a few
> feet of main and jib.  I am cautious and I thought I heard Rummy, who
> sailed these waters, laugh and yell over the wind to "let it all out!"   I
> was pleased that the boat was almost flat despite the strong winds and we
> were sailing in control.  The waves were cresting and I experienced
> surfing for the first time on the boat as we went done wind.  My daughter
> did a good job of pointing the boat between the narrow islands that have
> appeared due to the drought.  We were on a down wind run when my favorite
> hat, a tilley with both seat belts on went sailing off.  I told my
> daughter to bring us around on a broad reach.  I i
> ntended to take in what little sail we had out and motor back to find the
> hat.  Eager to get back to my hat while it was still In view I lifted the
> furling line from its cam cleat without taking any pressure off the
> in-play jib sheet.  One of the forcasted gusts hit the jib and pulled the
> tighly held line through my hand causing one searing rope burn and making
> me let go of the line.  The postage stamp storm sail grew into a 175 genoa
> at the speed of wind and Second Wind went to an angle that put the curved
> hull in the water  I took over the tiller and brought the bow enough into
> the wind so Katie was able to partially pull in the jib.  I crabbed into
> and out of the wind until she was able to get all the jib rolled back in.
> I never did find the hat but did gain new respect for the power behind the
> 175 and the safety net of the flaired hull.  I also neglected to pull the
> fenders aboard when we left the dock.  When the gust hit, the jib sheet
> came up under the three fender li
> nes and lifted those heavy white fenders skyward so it looked like Chinese
> lanterns hanging from the line.  It was that sight that had Katie thinking
> Captain Dad, despite his calm expression, was no longer in charge.
>
> Accodring to Stan, the Rhodes 22 has a practical wind velocity limitation
> of about 28 knots.  The Rhodes can stretch this limit because of its dual
> furling sails and boom lowering feature.  He points out the boat will go
> like the wind in 50 knots but tacking would be impossible.  He also
> mentions in his guide that in heavy airs the genoa furling line may
> require the muscle of the stongest crew member and if necessary the
> running of the furling line to the genoa winch.  I doubt I could  have
> handled the tiller and the furling line alone in those winds.  Even with
> the two of us it was an exciting few minutes.  I should have jibed and
> come around into the wind but that thought didn't come to me until the
> second beer in our debriefing session back at the dock.   So Jay, keep us
> informed about sailing a Rhodes in extreme conditions.  I think it is
> great that you would consider making adaptions to the boat rather than
> give it up for a different one.  I miss those breath taking view
> s your sailing grounds.  I still remember the blue water stories you told
> of adventures on that schooner voyage down to San Francisco.  Let me know
> if you are ever in this area and I will introduce you to "mostly" stress
> free lake sailing
>
> Joe Riley
> s/v Second Wind
> Lake Hartwell
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Curry <jac2 at wavecable.com>
> To: rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2017 3:57 pm
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Waterproofing
>
> Hi Folks. Here goes.... Been a while since I have been on the list. I own
> a 1992 factory refurbished Rhodes 22 with IMF purchased in 2012. This
> summer will be our 5th full season with the boat. I sail it in Sequim Bay
> and in the Straight of Juan De Fuca near Sequim and Port Angeles, WA. We
> no longer use the 175 Jib and instead use a 100% jib set up with a self
> tailing rig as a well as the standard jib sheets. Both jib sheet
> arrangements are always connected and can be used alternately for any
> conditions. As a result, the boat is stable and safe for single handling
> in even high wind conditions, something impossible with the 175 jib unless
> you have a crew. On a minor note, the concave shape of the hull catches
> high winds, heels the boat and allows it to be "sailed" with the sails
> down when the winds are up. That is not a good thing. I am still not sold
> on the concave shape. It may be great for preventing splashing, but from a
> safety standpoint, I think it has its draw backs.
>
> Outside the protected Bay, conditions can change in a heart beat and
> subject the boat to high winds and if those winds oppose the current,
> significant wave heights. The nearest islands are a 30 mile trip and
> weather windows are not always accurate due to all the micro climates in
> the area. They do not even try to forecast local winds. As you all know,
> the cockpit pan that sits under the hull cap and cockpit seats is open on
> the top edge. Any wave splashing over the stern will easily enter the boat
> cabin from over the top edges of that cockpit pan under the seats. The
> single drain hole at the back of the cockpit floor is completely
> inadequate for allowing large amounts of water to escape quickly.
> Successive waves would easily swamp the boat and require extensive
> bailing. In addition, you cold easily find yourself "surfing" some waves
> requiring solid steering control to prevent capsizing. The boat is very
> susceptible to loss of steering and to digging into the water if the wav
> e
> hits from the stern. Any review of the stories where the rare capsizing
> has happened with this boat will confirm that scenario. So...
>
> Two items of interest.
>
> 1. I know that at least one owner in Florida who sails the Atlantic has
> sealed the cockpit pan top edges. How he did it is not known. There are
> two alternatives. One would be to glass between the top edges of the pan
> and the underside of the seat. The other would be to install walls from
> the front edge of the seats to the floor of the cockpit. But, this
> alternative would have to be very strong. The last problem is how to
> create a self bailing arrangement. If you extended the center section of
> the cockpit floor to the stern under the stern seat, you would sacrifice
> some storage, but have a very adequate path to evacuate water and maintain
> the structural strength of the stern.
>
> Has anyone on the list done this or researched it?
>
> 2. Any ideas on how to use a different rudder configuration or larger
> rudder with the existing stern configuration to allow a more robust
> steering control in forced, unavoidable surfing situations?
>
> Thanks in advance for any input you have. I am also open to any questions.
>
> Jay
> Port Angeles, WA
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
> 