[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4159, Issue 1

Wed Dec 4 21:16:25 EST 2019

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Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4159, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Long term cruising stowage (S/V Lark)
   2. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart)
   3. Re: hatch on foredeck (Peter Nyberg)
   4. Re: Long term cruising stowage (Chris Geankoplis)
   5. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart)
   6. Re: hatch on foredeck (James Nichols)
   7. Re: Long term cruising stowage (James Nichols)
   8. Re: hatch on foredeck (ROGER PIHLAJA)
   9. Re: hatch on foredeck (Jesse Shumaker)
  10. Re: Long term cruising stowage (Jesse Shumaker)
  11. Re: hatch on foredeck (Todd Tavares)
  12. Re: hatch on foredeck (Peter Nyberg)
  13. Re: Long term cruising stowage (Chris Geankoplis)
  14. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart)
  15. Re: hatch on foredeck (James Nichols)
  16. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart)
  17. Re: hatch on foredeck (mweisner at ebsmed.com)
  18. Re: hatch on foredeck (Graham Stewart)
  19. Re: hatch on foredeck (Chris Geankoplis)
  20. Re: hatch on foredeck (Jesse Shumaker)
  21. Re: hatch on foredeck (Art Czerwonky)
  22. Re: hatch on foredeck (Todd Tavares)
  23. Cabin Liner (Lowe, Rob)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 16:49:24 -0700 (MST)
From: S/V Lark <Colealexander at hotmail.com>
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage
Message-ID: <1575244164482-0.post at n5.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Can you add detail about your cargo bars under the cockpit seat?   I?ve been
wanting to engineer something for this.   I considered rope, which would put
the cockpit casting under stress compared to your system.    I didn?t want
to add holes until I was sure.

Have you ever weighed your gear?  I assume you need your cockpit plug under
ordinary conditions?

Alex

-----
Alex Cole
S/V Lark
--
Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 19:31:31 -0500
From: "Graham Stewart" <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <003201d5a8a7$da7e9030$8f7bb090$@ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes.

The second photo shows where they were placed originally.

Graham

Graham Stewart
Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
Kingston Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck

Jesse,

Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent.  My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment.

?Peter

> On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Jesse Shumaker <jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Graham, Peter, and Mary Lou, thanks for your replies.  Mary Lou, you have an
> encyclopedic knowledge of R22 history.  Thanks for continuing to post even
> after selling your R22.  I read quite a bit about different pocket cruisers
> before deciding what type of boat I wanted and your chapter in the Sailing
> Small book helped steer me towards a Rhodes 22.
>
> Since I'm installing the solar vent fan in the anchor locker hole near the
> bow, I'll just see how sleeping in the v-birth goes with that in place.  The
> former owner wired in a fan to the electrical connection for the light above
> the porta potty and I can point that towards the v-birth to help with
> airflow.  The former owner also left onboard another 12v fan that I could
> plug in and use in the main part of the cabin if needed.  I would be
> reluctant to cut another hole in the deck since each additional hole comes
> with it's own risk of water problems and adding a hatch would involve
> additional expense.
>
> It appears that use of solar vent fan in the existing 3" hole near the bow
> is a common approach.  As I was installing mine, it occurred to me that this
> could affect anchoring since the bow cleat is aft of the solar vent.  For
> those with a solar vent, I was wondering what approach you take for running
> the rode.  Here are some approaches that came to mind initially:
>
> - Run the rode around the outside of the bow pulpit to avoid any pressure
> against the solar vent.  With this approach, perhaps the rode could be run
> through the u-bolt on the hull on the bow to ensure the anchor rode extends
> directly in front of the boat
>
> -Run alongside and against the the solar vent.  With this approach, perhaps
> it would be possible to put some sort of protection around the solar vent
> when anchoring.  I was concerned that pressure from the rode against the
> solar vent could cause damage to the plastic solar vent or chafe against the
> sealant at the base of the solar vent.
>
> - Use some sort of bridal system that would go around both sides the solar
> vent and perhaps outside the bow pulpit.
>
> Any advice on this would be appreciated.  I've done very little anchoring so
> I'm especially a novice in this area.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 20:37:53 -0500
From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <A44FCA49-CE98-4339-943D-98E5303E1AE9 at sunnybeeches.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

I stand corrected.  I?d follow Graham?s advice.  I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck.

?Peter

> On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
> The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes.
>
> The second photo shows where they were placed originally.
>
> Graham
>
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
> Kingston Ontario
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg
> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
>
> Jesse,
>
> Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent.  My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment.
>
> ?Peter

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 21:04:55 -0600
From: Chris Geankoplis <chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage
Message-ID:
        <CADNTwiWDkQCbvfffC2Z334EQo8S8S6-7tL9a3GyQT87s8S2nQQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hey Alex,
            I should have weighed it and considered it but each time when
both parts came together, I didn't have a scale.  I'll try to do it next
time I am preping the boat next spring.
           One cargo bar were made from a clothes bar from an RV (oval in
profile)  1/2 X 1 ", on the port side.  Couldn't get anymore so I used
square alum stock 3/4 or i" for the stb. side.  I then cut the aft sockets
to fit the profile of each.  On the forward end I cut a "U" channel of
appropriate dimensions.  The sockets themselves were made of 1/2" HDPE.  I
also made cap plugs for each bar for both to avoid any sharp or scratchy
ends.  I use a  Dremel to carve each cap.  The sockets were secured with 4
SS screws and finishing washers for each.  I've had them on board for the
last 15 years with no issues.  Be sure you settle on what dimensions you
will use on the under seat storage containers including your fuel tank so
you know how far to center line to place the bars.  My port bar is a bit
closer to center line than the stb. one based on what I stow under each
seat.  And yes, with all that stuff I do use a plug with an extra wrap of
rescue tape to keep the water on the proper side of the hull.  Good luck
with the project.

Chris G.
ENOSIS

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 5:34 PM S/V Lark <Colealexander at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Can you add detail about your cargo bars under the cockpit seat?   I?ve
> been
> wanting to engineer something for this.   I considered rope, which would
> put
> the cockpit casting under stress compared to your system.    I didn?t want
> to add holes until I was sure.
>
> Have you ever weighed your gear?  I assume you need your cockpit plug under
> ordinary conditions?
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> -----
> Alex Cole
> S/V Lark
> --
> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 22:59:19 -0500
From: "Graham Stewart" <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <003601d5a8c4$e23be490$a6b3adb0$@ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Peter:
When I refer to "composite lumber" I am just talking about composite deck boards. In my case I used some scrap pieces in a variety of places where I wanted a wood-like trim without any upkeep. This material has little strength and can't hold screws or be glued so it is relegated to situations where it can be bolted in place and has no structural purpose - like cockpit trim. I used it in a variety of places such as for blocks under the chocks.

Starboard is a better product for sure in terms of strength but where strength isn't important then composite boards are much less expensive, come in a variety of colors and has a wood grain appearance on one side. It is easy to work with, is oblivious to UV and needs no maintenance.

I used the composite to replace the cabin sliding hatch runners (see photo) and so far it has held up well.

I don't know why it isn't used more on boats. Maybe others on the list can comment.

Graham Stewart
Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
Kingston Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 8:38 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck

I stand corrected.  I?d follow Graham?s advice.  I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck.

?Peter

> On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
> The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes.
>
> The second photo shows where they were placed originally.
>
> Graham
>
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
> Kingston Ontario
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg
> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
>
> Jesse,
>
> Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent.  My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment.
>
> ?Peter
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 05:54:57 +0000 (UTC)
From: James Nichols <jfn302 at yahoo.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <981891048.4904675.1575266097828 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Graham,?
We are starting to see it more and more in products specially made for boats,? so of course they are expensive products rather than the fairly inexpensive composite decking.?
Things like the faux teak cost nearly as much as three real thing.? Using composite decking instead would be a much better solution.?
I have seen composite decking used for interior flooring a bit.??
James

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 06:10:00 +0000 (UTC)
From: James Nichols <jfn302 at yahoo.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage
Message-ID: <687185153.1412567.1575267000653 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I would recommend using a one way scupper instead of a plug.? Pretty cheap and you don't have to fumble for the plug if you take on water.?
Search Flow Max scupper on Amazon or your favorite marine retailer,? $15.00 each,? and Stan might not void your unsinkable warranty.?
James

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 12:09:30 +0000
From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID:
        <BL0PR02MB4643752AAFF68F0BCEAA096C80430 at BL0PR02MB4643.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi All,

S/V Dynamic Equilibrium has had black UV stabilized ultra high molecular weight polyethylene (ie Starboard although that brand wasn?t available back then) slides on the cabin top and the companionway hatch since 1992.  I also use 2? wide Teflon tape under the companionway hatch slide as a wear surface so the hatch or cabin roof are not worn down.  I had to replace the Teflon tape once in 2012, so I?m getting about 20 years of life on the wear surface.  The UHMWPE slides still look new after 27+ seasons, are easy to clean, and completely maintenance free.  I like the gloss black look; but, some people prefer the varnished wood look.  Pound per pound UHMWPE is one of the most expensive polymers, which might explain why it isn?t used more by boat makers.  The material is used a lot for whitewater kayak hulls, which are subject to tremendous abuse!  The central hull on my Walker Bay RIB is made from UHMWPE.  It came with a 10 year warranty, which is the longest warranty period in
  the inflatable industry. The RIB is now 7 years old.  Except for a few minor scratches up on the bow, it still looks new

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 1, 2019, at 10:59 PM, Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
> ?Peter:
> When I refer to "composite lumber" I am just talking about composite deck boards. In my case I used some scrap pieces in a variety of places where I wanted a wood-like trim without any upkeep. This material has little strength and can't hold screws or be glued so it is relegated to situations where it can be bolted in place and has no structural purpose - like cockpit trim. I used it in a variety of places such as for blocks under the chocks.
>
> Starboard is a better product for sure in terms of strength but where strength isn't important then composite boards are much less expensive, come in a variety of colors and has a wood grain appearance on one side. It is easy to work with, is oblivious to UV and needs no maintenance.
>
> I used the composite to replace the cabin sliding hatch runners (see photo) and so far it has held up well.
>
> I don't know why it isn't used more on boats. Maybe others on the list can comment.
>
>
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
> Kingston Ontario
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg
> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 8:38 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
>
> I stand corrected.  I?d follow Graham?s advice.  I?m not sure what material he?s referring to when he mentions ?composite lumber?, but I think Starboard would be a good choice for raising the chocks off the deck.
>
> ?Peter
>
>> On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>
>> The rub rails are not solid - as you can see in the attached photo - but the glass is probably thick enough to hold screws if they are installed properly. I my case I installed the chocks inboard of the rub rails where they were originally installed and could be bolted through the deck with fender washers and nuts on the inside. I don't trust screws for anything that takes a significant strain. However, I raised them up 1" on blocks of composite lumber so that the lines cleared the rub rails to avoid chafe and blemishes.
>>
>> The second photo shows where they were placed originally.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> Graham Stewart
>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
>> Kingston Ontario
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Nyberg
>> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:48 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
>>
>> Jesse,
>>
>> Probably the simplest solution for your anchor rode issue would be to install chocks on the toe rail in positions that would lead the rode away from the vent.  My guess is that the toe rail is solid fiberglass, so you should be able to get a solid attachment.
>>
>> ?Peter
> -------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 07:58:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Jesse Shumaker <jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com>
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <1575298706725-0.post at n5.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thanks for the replies and tips.  I will proceed with adding chocks as
suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the
finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the
solar vent.  I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent
installation will be done.

http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td56219.html

Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects.  Did you replace the
foredeck yourself?  If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck
from GB for the installation?

--
Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 08:02:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Jesse Shumaker <jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com>
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage
Message-ID: <1575298977846-0.post at n5.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

James, thanks for the tip on the one way scupper.  From the reviews on these
products at first glance, it sounds like this solution has worked well for
others with this type of issue.  I plan to give that a try and see how it
goes.

--
Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:14:06 -0500
From: Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID:
        <CAB-twMOORtoXx8t5ropsQ+JO=qnRMsYPOOwuUu_GmNHV5G9PZw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Speaking of composites, has anyone had an opportunity to work with Coosa
boards?

https://www.boatoutfitters.com/coosa-composites-board?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx8aVhKCX5gIVy8DACh0irAglEAAYASACEgLiDvD_BwE

Maybe our resident engineer could get a sales sample and give his opinion?
Hmmmm?

Todd T.

tavares0947 at gmail.com

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019, 9:43 AM Jesse Shumaker <jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the replies and tips.  I will proceed with adding chocks as
> suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the
> finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the
> solar vent.  I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent
> installation will be done.
>
>
> http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td56219.html
>
> Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects.  Did you replace the
> foredeck yourself?  If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck
> from GB for the installation?
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/
>

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:20:15 -0500
From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <D9E426F0-69B7-41AF-BC63-0E82AFAD5FF3 at sunnybeeches.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

The BoatworksToday YouTube channel has a couple of recent videos about working with Coosa.  Here?s one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-_fOPzlHM <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-_fOPzlHM>

Peter Nyberg
Coventry, CT
s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)

> On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Speaking of composites, has anyone had an opportunity to work with Coosa
> boards?
>
> https://www.boatoutfitters.com/coosa-composites-board?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx8aVhKCX5gIVy8DACh0irAglEAAYASACEgLiDvD_BwE
>
> Maybe our resident engineer could get a sales sample and give his opinion?
> Hmmmm?
>
> Todd T.
>
> tavares0947 at gmail.com
>

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 10:17:36 -0600
From: Chris Geankoplis <chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com>
To: James Nichols <jfn302 at yahoo.com>, The Rhodes 22 Email List
        <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Long term cruising stowage
Message-ID:
        <CADNTwiW_irCyXrS7_95F3f8K86AC8DaE-CbPwNx-FF=RXyg3yw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hey James,
               Thanks for that piece of information, it sounds like the
ticket.  I'll check it out.  A couple of times when the boat was docked, I
didn't remove the plug and a thunderstorm added an inch of water that would
have drained out if I hadn't left the plug in.

Chris Geankoplis
ENOSIS

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:10 AM James Nichols via Rhodes22-list <
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:

> I would recommend using a one way scupper instead of a plug.  Pretty cheap
> and you don't have to fumble for the plug if you take on water.
> Search Flow Max scupper on Amazon or your favorite marine retailer,
> $15.00 each,  and Stan might not void your unsinkable warranty.
> James
>

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:30:09 -0500
From: "Graham Stewart" <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <00b701d5a9e6$2dade140$8909a3c0$@ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Jesse:
Yes, I did some major restoration work which showed in part in the photo of
the foredeck being removed. I literally cut the deck in front of the cabin
roof and removed it. I then separated the liner, removed the core material,
replaced the core with multiple layers of epoxy-coated marine plywood, and
then reinstalled the deck. It might sound like a simple 4-step process but
it took me all summer just to do that. Refinishing the boat was another big
project.

Had I know then what I know now I would have realized that all that was
unnecessary. I thought that the core was in very poor condition as I knew
there had been a water leak into the core, the deck was very soft when I
stood on I, and I had a nest of flying ants above the liner that I assumed
was an indication of severe core damage.

At the time was encouraged to be so adventurous because I thought that there
was a very good chance that I would end up taking the boat to the dump as
being unsalvageable. I was just curious to see what was happening between
the deck skin and liner.

As it turned out, there was very little damage to the core. The wet spot was
relatively small with no sign of rot and there was no trace of damage from
the flying ants. However, the core was made of regular indoor plywood that
had dried out and delaminated from the deck and liner. It had only been
attached with very little strands of sealant that in most areas hadn't even
touched the skins. Hence it came apart and was removed mostly with my bare
hands. The individual layers of the plywood had also separated. As a result
the deck had lost virtually all of its rigidity.

It would have been much, much, much less trouble and probably just as
effective to have dried out the wet spot and then injected thickened epoxy
into the entire core and between the core and the deck skin, but without
being able to see what was happening I had no idea that epoxy injection
would be effective. In fact, for the side decks I used this method of epoxy
injection and got very good results. There are a few tricks to getting the
epoxy into the right places and being able to see the core from the cut edge
was essential to that process. I posted this work and my conclusions to the
list so that all those contemplating the removal of their deck might avoid a
lot of work. As it turned out there were not  a lot of people contemplating
doing that. However, It I think it might have been useful to some to be able
to see what I discovered inside the deck.

Getting the deck pack on and aligned turned out to be a very difficult
process - for a complete novice like me. I had made a frame to hold the
foredeck in its original shape while I replaced the core but, while it
helped, it didn't work very well and the new deck did not align well with
the rest of the boat. (The deck is much less symmetrical than I had expected
it to be.) So fitting it back on the boat was very time-consuming and
required a LOT of fairing and reinforcement. In the end, however, the
surgery is not visible either on the inside or outside and I have a foredeck
that could puncture a concrete wall.

To finish the deck I had to grind off all of the non-skid gel coat on the
foredeck and side decks, apply several layers of glass and endless fairing
to the entire area, paint the entire deck and cockpit, and apply a new
nonskid. All in all a ridiculous amount of work. It took about four years of
summer work just to this repair - although I was doing a plethora of other
repairs as well. The total restoration took seven years.

I note that somewhere along the line Stan stopped using plywood as the core
material for the R22 and as a result the problems I had would be avoided. My
advice to anyone purchasing an older R22 would be to determine what the core
material is before the purchase.

Graham Stewart
Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
Kingston Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
Jesse Shumaker
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 9:58 AM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck

Thanks for the replies and tips.  I will proceed with adding chocks as
suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the
finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the
solar vent.  I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent
installation will be done.

http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td5621
9.html

Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects.  Did you replace the
foredeck yourself?  If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck
from GB for the installation?

--
Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 15:44:30 +0000 (UTC)
From: James Nichols <jfn302 at yahoo.com>
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <185718492.1623572.1575387870653 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Graham,?
I started a similar project on mine.? I've come close to deciding that it was best to abandon it a few times because of my lack of time to commit to the project,? but I'm sticking with it.?
I have the interior skin removed from the fore deck.? And the core material as well.? It was much the same as yours.? Barely attached,? but mine had much more water damage to the core as the forward hatch was badly deteriorated and allowed water in around the edges.?
I had considered removing the deck,? turning it over and working on it upside down,? but then I saw some videos of reinstalling a deck and the amount of work it took to get the hull and deck back into the same alignment as before and decided I didn't have the equipment for that.?
So,? I'm working on mine still together. Considering turning the entire boat upside down right now.?I'm going back with 1/4 ? 1/2" strips of oak,? building it back from the inside.? Pretty certain I'm going to leave the oak exposed and give it a nice stained finish.? In the end,? I expect mine with pierce that same concrete wall right next to yours.?
James

  On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:30 AM, Graham Stewart<gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:   Jesse:
Yes, I did some major restoration work which showed in part in the photo of
the foredeck being removed. I literally cut the deck in front of the cabin
roof and removed it. I then separated the liner, removed the core material,
replaced the core with multiple layers of epoxy-coated marine plywood, and
then reinstalled the deck. It might sound like a simple 4-step process but
it took me all summer just to do that. Refinishing the boat was another big
project.

Had I know then what I know now I would have realized that all that was
unnecessary. I thought that the core was in very poor condition as I knew
there had been a water leak into the core, the deck was very soft when I
stood on I, and I had a nest of flying ants above the liner that I assumed
was an indication of severe core damage.

At the time was encouraged to be so adventurous because I thought that there
was a very good chance that I would end up taking the boat to the dump as
being unsalvageable. I was just curious to see what was happening between
the deck skin and liner.

As it turned out, there was very little damage to the core. The wet spot was
relatively small with no sign of rot and there was no trace of damage from
the flying ants. However, the core was made of regular indoor plywood that
had dried out and delaminated from the deck and liner. It had only been
attached with very little strands of sealant that in most areas hadn't even
touched the skins. Hence it came apart and was removed mostly with my bare
hands. The individual layers of the plywood had also separated. As a result
the deck had lost virtually all of its rigidity.

It would have been much, much, much less trouble and probably just as
effective to have dried out the wet spot and then injected thickened epoxy
into the entire core and between the core and the deck skin, but without
being able to see what was happening I had no idea that epoxy injection
would be effective. In fact, for the side decks I used this method of epoxy
injection and got very good results. There are a few tricks to getting the
epoxy into the right places and being able to see the core from the cut edge
was essential to that process. I posted this work and my conclusions to the
list so that all those contemplating the removal of their deck might avoid a
lot of work. As it turned out there were not? a lot of people contemplating
doing that. However, It I think it might have been useful to some to be able
to see what I discovered inside the deck.

Getting the deck pack on and aligned turned out to be a very difficult
process - for a complete novice like me. I had made a frame to hold the
foredeck in its original shape while I replaced the core but, while it
helped, it didn't work very well and the new deck did not align well with
the rest of the boat. (The deck is much less symmetrical than I had expected
it to be.) So fitting it back on the boat was very time-consuming and
required a LOT of fairing and reinforcement. In the end, however, the
surgery is not visible either on the inside or outside and I have a foredeck
that could puncture a concrete wall.

To finish the deck I had to grind off all of the non-skid gel coat on the
foredeck and side decks, apply several layers of glass and endless fairing
to the entire area, paint the entire deck and cockpit, and apply a new
nonskid. All in all a ridiculous amount of work. It took about four years of
summer work just to this repair - although I was doing a plethora of other
repairs as well. The total restoration took seven years.

I note that somewhere along the line Stan stopped using plywood as the core
material for the R22 and as a result the problems I had would be avoided. My
advice to anyone purchasing an older R22 would be to determine what the core
material is before the purchase.

Graham Stewart
Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
Kingston Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
Jesse Shumaker
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 9:58 AM
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck

Thanks for the replies and tips.? I will proceed with adding chocks as
suggested since that should address my concerns. I'll post a photo of the
finished results on a related post (at the link below) about adding the
solar vent.? I've got one minor tweak to make and the solar vent
installation will be done.

http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/gasket-for-mounting-solar-vent-td5621
9.html

Graham, your photos illustrate some major projects.? Did you replace the
foredeck yourself?? If so, did you end up ordering a replacement foredeck
from GB for the installation?

--
Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 11:37:14 -0500
From: "Graham Stewart" <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
To: "'James Nichols'" <jfn302 at yahoo.com>, "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'"
        <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck
Message-ID: <00c601d5a9f7$ef036110$cd0a2330$@ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="UTF-8"

James:

Sounds like a good strategy that will have a number of advantages to my approach. With adequate core material properly bonded to the deck skin there should be no need for the liner. In fact, I found that with my boat the core and liner was not bonded anywhere making the liner of little structural use anyway.

The hard part is finding a way to work in such a confined area. I had to do that to join and fair the liner at the seam and that was a pain even though it was where I had the most room. Because I had removed the main bulkhead I was able to place a strip of plywood to bridge the space between the V-birth and a chair in the main cabin and then use that as a bed to lay on. But that would not help you get into the bow. Just getting into the bow area to replace deck hardware nuts and to fiberglass the hull-deck joint was difficult.

Turning the boat over would make it easier to work with but would not give you more headroom. Actually I did that for another boat restoration I did so flipping the boat is quite feasible. I built a big crate for the boat that held it steady while I then turned the boat using come along winches and foam blocks to cushion the fall once the boat passed the balance point. I have pictures if you are interested.

I wonder if it wouldn't be more feasible to remove (and later replace) the flotation in the bow of the boat? You might then use some plywood for a platform to work from. Even a few inches would make a big difference. I think this would be the approach I would take if I were to lose my mind and do it again.

Good luck. Let us  know how it works out.

Graham Stewart
Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
Kingston Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of James Nichols via Rhodes22-list
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:45 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] hatch on foredeck

Graham,
I started a similar project on mine.  I've come close to deciding that it was best to abandon it a few times because of my lack of time to commit to the project,  but I'm sticking with it.
I have the interior skin removed from the fore deck.  And the core material as well.  It was much the same as yours.  Barely attached,  but mine had much more water damage to the core as the forward hatch was badly deteriorated and allowed water in around the edges.
I had considered removing the deck,  turning it over and working on it upside down,  but then I saw some videos of reinstalling a deck and the amount of work it took to get the hull and deck back into the same alignment as before and decided I didn't have the equipment for that.
So,  I'm working on mine still together. Considering turning the entire boat upside down right now. I'm going back with 1/4 ? 1/2" strips of oak,  building it back from the inside.  Pretty certain I'm going to leave the oak exposed and give it a nice stained finish.  In the end,  I expect mine with pierce that same concrete wall right next to yours.
James