[Rhodes22-list] Bow Eye vs. Bow Cleat?

Thu Apr 23 19:26:08 EDT 2020

Roger,

Didn't you link the backing plate of your bow deck cleat to the backing
plate of the bow eye?

Todd T.

tavares0947 at gmail.com

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:52 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> There is a real advantage to rigging the anchor line thru the bow eye vs.
> directly to the bow cleat.  The choice of the bow eye vs. the bow cleat has
> a significant effect on the anchor scope.  This is because the bow eye is
> ~1.5 ft closer to the water vs the bow cleat.  For example, suppose we are
> anchoring in 7 feet of water.  The bow eye is ~2 feet above the water and
> the bow cleat is ~3.5 feet above the water.  Suppose we let out 65 feet of
> anchor rode.  The scope using the bow eye is 65 / (7 + 2) = 7.2  The scope
> using the bow cleat is 65 / (7 + 3.5) = 6.2  A scope of 7.2 is sufficient
> for decent overnight holding with a minimum 65 foot radius swing circle.  A
> scope of 6.2 is marginal for an overnight night stay.  Sometimes, there
> isn’t sufficient swing room to let out more anchor rode, say if you are the
> last boat to drop the hook in a crowded anchorage.  In addition, it’s
> considered bad anchoring etiquette to use up all the swing room in an
> anchorage even if you are the first one there.
>
> Fortunately, you don’t have to tie off to the bow eye in order to get the
> scope advantage of using it.  Simply run the anchor rode thru the bow eye
> first, then up to the bow cleat, and cleat it off.  This will give you all
> the scope advantage of using the bow eye and all the ease of tying off to
> the bow cleat.  When departing, reach down and hook the anchor rode with a
> boat hook below the bow eye.  Pull the anchor rode on board, hang on to it,
> and then uncleat the rode from the bow cleat.  Easy peasy and no stress on
> the knees!
>
> I always use the bow eye in the manner described above.  There is just no
> reason not to, the extra safety margin on scope helps me sleep better, and
> I don’t annoy my fellow boaters.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Lowe, Rob<mailto:rlowe at vt.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:16 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Art
> Czerwonky<mailto:a_czerwonky at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>
> I must say I read that wrong.  Even though I responded bow eye, I was
> thinking bow cleat.  I agree with Graham's method using two lines running
> through the chocks to the bow cleat.  - rob
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of Art
> Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:03 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>
> I agree fully with your recommendation, Graham. The bow eye is not
> suitable for the shock loads of mooring.  Art CzerwonkyMaryJane, Atlanta
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:44 AM, Graham Stewart<gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> wrote:   Personally I prefer to not use the bow eye for mooring. For one
> thing it is difficult to reach the bow eye if you have old knees. I prefer
> to rune two nylon lines from the mooring through the chocks and to the bow
> cleat. It is much easier to attach and release and gives you two lines
> instead of one. I have no doubt that either the eye or the cleat is plenty
> strong. Whichever you use do not connect the boat to the mooring with chain.
>
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
> Kingston Ontario
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
> Of Lowe, Rob
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 9:02 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>
> I can't speak for Stan, but I've never heard of a bow eye on the Rhodes
> giving way.  Still doesn't mean it can't happen.  I'd inspect the backing
> plate up in the V berth next time you can and see if it's snug and looks
> adequate.  - rob
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of
> Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:36 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>
> I went with a mooring this year.  Stan do you think the bow eye alone can
> hold? A noreaster is rolling into my anchorage tonight!
> 😀
>
> > On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Jay (and all) as this has been really helpful.
> >
> > I've got 6 pilings in my slip. I was thinking of using two 3/8" bow lines
> > around each piling with snubbers both connected to the bow cleat, then
> two
> > 3/8" stern lines with snubbers each connected from the piling to each
> stern
> > cleat, and I think i might put spring cleats in approximately mid-ship by
> > the windows and run a 1/2" spring line with snubbers on each side (using
> > the grab rails temporarily).
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:15 PM Jay Friedland <jayf401 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sean,
> >> I should also add that the Tide-minders prevent any side movement in my
> >> relatively narrow slip. On the spring lines, I use heavy-duty snubbers
> (for
> >> up to 5/8” line) to give the boat some forward movement beyond the
> stretch
> >> of the lines. With the occasional excessive tides, I use the midship
> cleat
> >> adjustment along with the snubbers to keep the boat centered with
> tension,
> >> not just the extreme stretch of the spring lines.
> >> Jay
> >>
> >>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Jay Friedland <JayF401 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sean,
> >>> It all depends on the exposure to the elements. Mel & I are on the same
> >> island but completely different factors to deal with. Mel is fairly
> >> protected in a lagoon, so his lines are fine for that location.
> Wanderlust
> >> is in a  narrow slip in a marina with a sea wall surrounding the boats.
> It
> >> has 11’ of clearance, and exposed to high winds, some wave action and
> up to
> >> 2-1/2’ of tidal change. While it’s not all visible in the attached photo
> >> (if it’s not stripped away), is the following, using all 1/2” lines-
> >>>
> >>> 1) bow lines to pilings at a 90°
> >>> 2) spring lines to adjustable midship cleats on 1” T-tracks, 30” of
> >> movement
> >>> 3) Tide-minders on each stern line
> >>>
> >>> I’ve been through over 12 seasons of squalls, glancing hurricanes,
> >> excessive tides and only have to worry about other people’s boats. The
> >> other advantage of midship cleats is the versatility of docking in many
> >> situations. I hope this helps.
> >>>
> >>> Jay Friedland
> >>> S/v Wanderlust, ‘97
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 1.40.16 PM.png>
> >>>
> >>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:seanallen1206 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm launching my boat in to a new slip in a few weeks and I'm curious
> if
> >>>> and how other Rhodes owners use spring lines? Mine only has one bow
> >> cleat
> >>>> and two on the stern.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've heard of others using the grab rail on the bulk head mentioned.
> >>>>
> >>>> Has anyone installed additional cleats? Is that advisable?
> >>>>
> >>>> The marina is in tidal waters (Barnegat Bay) with quite a bit of wake
> >> on a
> >>>> daily basis.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sean
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 5:52 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> There is a real advantage to rigging the anchor line thru the bow eye vs.
> directly to the bow cleat.  The choice of the bow eye vs. the bow cleat has
> a significant effect on the anchor scope.  This is because the bow eye is
> ~1.5 ft closer to the water vs the bow cleat.  For example, suppose we are
> anchoring in 7 feet of water.  The bow eye is ~2 feet above the water and
> the bow cleat is ~3.5 feet above the water.  Suppose we let out 65 feet of
> anchor rode.  The scope using the bow eye is 65 / (7 + 2) = 7.2  The scope
> using the bow cleat is 65 / (7 + 3.5) = 6.2  A scope of 7.2 is sufficient
> for decent overnight holding with a minimum 65 foot radius swing circle.  A
> scope of 6.2 is marginal for an overnight night stay.  Sometimes, there
> isn’t sufficient swing room to let out more anchor rode, say if you are the
> last boat to drop the hook in a crowded anchorage.  In addition, it’s
> considered bad anchoring etiquette to use up all the swing room in an
> anchorage even if you are the first one there.
>
> Fortunately, you don’t have to tie off to the bow eye in order to get the
> scope advantage of using it.  Simply run the anchor rode thru the bow eye
> first, then up to the bow cleat, and cleat it off.  This will give you all
> the scope advantage of using the bow eye and all the ease of tying off to
> the bow cleat.  When departing, reach down and hook the anchor rode with a
> boat hook below the bow eye.  Pull the anchor rode on board, hang on to it,
> and then uncleat the rode from the bow cleat.  Easy peasy and no stress on
> the knees!
>
> I always use the bow eye in the manner described above.  There is just no
> reason not to, the extra safety margin on scope helps me sleep better, and
> I don’t annoy my fellow boaters.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Lowe, Rob<mailto:rlowe at vt.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:16 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Art
> Czerwonky<mailto:a_czerwonky at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>
> I must say I read that wrong.  Even though I responded bow eye, I was
> thinking bow cleat.  I agree with Graham's method using two lines running
> through the chocks to the bow cleat.  - rob
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of Art
> Czerwonky via Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:03 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>
> I agree fully with your recommendation, Graham. The bow eye is not
> suitable for the shock loads of mooring.  Art CzerwonkyMaryJane, Atlanta
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:44 AM, Graham Stewart<gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> wrote:   Personally I prefer to not use the bow eye for mooring. For one
> thing it is difficult to reach the bow eye if you have old knees. I prefer
> to rune two nylon lines from the mooring through the chocks and to the bow
> cleat. It is much easier to attach and release and gives you two lines
> instead of one. I have no doubt that either the eye or the cleat is plenty
> strong. Whichever you use do not connect the boat to the mooring with chain.
>
> Graham Stewart
> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
> Kingston Ontario
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
> Of Lowe, Rob
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 9:02 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>
> I can't speak for Stan, but I've never heard of a bow eye on the Rhodes
> giving way.  Still doesn't mean it can't happen.  I'd inspect the backing
> plate up in the V berth next time you can and see if it's snug and looks
> adequate.  - rob
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of
> Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:36 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Spring Lines
>
> I went with a mooring this year.  Stan do you think the bow eye alone can
> hold? A noreaster is rolling into my anchorage tonight!
> 😀
>
> > On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Jay (and all) as this has been really helpful.
> >
> > I've got 6 pilings in my slip. I was thinking of using two 3/8" bow lines
> > around each piling with snubbers both connected to the bow cleat, then
> two
> > 3/8" stern lines with snubbers each connected from the piling to each
> stern
> > cleat, and I think i might put spring cleats in approximately mid-ship by
> > the windows and run a 1/2" spring line with snubbers on each side (using
> > the grab rails temporarily).
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:15 PM Jay Friedland <jayf401 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sean,
> >> I should also add that the Tide-minders prevent any side movement in my
> >> relatively narrow slip. On the spring lines, I use heavy-duty snubbers
> (for
> >> up to 5/8” line) to give the boat some forward movement beyond the
> stretch
> >> of the lines. With the occasional excessive tides, I use the midship
> cleat
> >> adjustment along with the snubbers to keep the boat centered with
> tension,
> >> not just the extreme stretch of the spring lines.
> >> Jay
> >>
> >>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Jay Friedland <JayF401 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sean,
> >>> It all depends on the exposure to the elements. Mel & I are on the same
> >> island but completely different factors to deal with. Mel is fairly
> >> protected in a lagoon, so his lines are fine for that location.
> Wanderlust
> >> is in a  narrow slip in a marina with a sea wall surrounding the boats.
> It
> >> has 11’ of clearance, and exposed to high winds, some wave action and
> up to
> >> 2-1/2’ of tidal change. While it’s not all visible in the attached photo
> >> (if it’s not stripped away), is the following, using all 1/2” lines-
> >>>
> >>> 1) bow lines to pilings at a 90°
> >>> 2) spring lines to adjustable midship cleats on 1” T-tracks, 30” of
> >> movement
> >>> 3) Tide-minders on each stern line
> >>>
> >>> I’ve been through over 12 seasons of squalls, glancing hurricanes,
> >> excessive tides and only have to worry about other people’s boats. The
> >> other advantage of midship cleats is the versatility of docking in many
> >> situations. I hope this helps.
> >>>
> >>> Jay Friedland
> >>> S/v Wanderlust, ‘97
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 1.40.16 PM.png>
> >>>
> >>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Sean Allen <seanallen1206 at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:seanallen1206 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm launching my boat in to a new slip in a few weeks and I'm curious
> if
> >>>> and how other Rhodes owners use spring lines? Mine only has one bow
> >> cleat
> >>>> and two on the stern.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've heard of others using the grab rail on the bulk head mentioned.
> >>>>
> >>>> Has anyone installed additional cleats? Is that advisable?
> >>>>
> >>>> The marina is in tidal waters (Barnegat Bay) with quite a bit of wake
> >> on a
> >>>> daily basis.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sean
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>