[Rhodes22-list] Getting the weight off the tires for winter storage
Jesse Shumaker
jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com
Mon Jul 13 13:23:45 EDT 2020
Roger, thanks for the detailed explanation and tips regarding maintenance
and extending tire life. I store my trailer behind a tire shop when it's
in a slip so I can inquire with the tire shop about Nitrogen. I would be
very happy if I could get anywhere close to 9-10 years out of a set of
tires. A minor detail is that I think your latest follow up is in response
to Rob's reply regarding his educated scepticism.
One other note since the topic of keeping water out of the stern came up.
The local sailboat shop makes nice custom covers so I had a mast down cover
made for the boat since it will be stored outside at the club for the
winter. I attached a couple of photos. The photos were from right after I
buffed and waxed the hull so you can see reflections off the blue hull
paint.
Jesse Shumaker
S/V Zephyr
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 8:07 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:
> Hi Jessie,
>
> I’ve searched the open literature and have not found an article that
> quantifies how much inert gas inflation extends tire life. The theory
> seems sound; but, it would be nice to see a study with real data. By the
> way, I have my tires inflated with air and they always fail by blow-out,
> cracking, or belt separation long before tread wear becomes an issue. I
> seem to get 9-10 years out of a set of tires. I inspect them before each
> trip and replace all 4 when I see the signs of cracking &/or tread
> separation on any of them, since they are all the same age. Like you, I’m
> still skeptical of the benefits of inert gas inflation. But, it seemed
> like you were interested in ways to extend trailer tire life.
>
> By the way, you mentioned the new tires ran quieter vs. the old tires.
> One of the symptoms of the sort of degradation we are talking about is
> increased tire noise while going down the road. But, this effect is subtle
> and, since the process takes years to develop, can be hard to detect.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Lowe, Rob<mailto:rlowe at vt.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 8:48 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>;
> daysails at aol.com<mailto:daysails at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Getting the weight off the tires for winter
> storage
>
> Roger,
> Thanks for the explanation of why people put nitrogen in tires. It always
> seemed to me to be a gimmick that tire shops use to get more money out of
> you. No one has been able to explain the science behind it to me. I'm
> still a skeptic, but at least now, I'm an educated skeptic. I'll check on
> the cost premium next time I need new tires. - rob
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of
> ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 2:27 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>;
> daysails at aol.com <daysails at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Getting the weight off the tires for winter
> storage
>
> Hi Jessie,
>
> While getting the weight off the trailer wheels in the winter and covering
> them with tire covers to limit UV exposure will both help extend trailer
> tire life, unfortunately the big tire killer is oxygen exposure. Oxygen is
> the 2nd most reactive element (behind fluorine) and the rubber polymer
> chains in the tires are vulnerable to its effects. One other thing you can
> do is fill your tires with nitrogen or argon vs. air. Yes, I know this
> sounds silly. But, oxygen degradation is a diffusion limited process. All
> else being equal, having an inert gas inflating the interior of the tire
> will slow down the diffusion rate by a factor of at least 4X due to
> switching oxygen diffusion from a 2-way process (outside in + inside out)
> to 1-way (outside in only). Actually, the inert gas may extend the tire’s
> life even more because the elevated oxygen partial pressure inside the tire
> increases the diffusion driving force favoring oxygen diffusion into the
> tire from the inside out by the ratio of the [absolute inflation air oxygen
> pressure psia]/[absolute ambient oxygen partial pressure]. For example,
> suppose you inflate your tires to 40 psi (40 + 14.7 = 54.7 psia). Air
> contains ~21%vol oxygen. So, the partial pressure of oxygen in the ambient
> air is 0.21 * 14.7 psia = 3.09 psia. The partial pressure of oxygen inside
> your tires is 0.21 * 54.7 psia = 11.5 psia. 11.5 psia / 3.09 psia = 3.7 X
> times more diffusion driving force for oxygen from the inside out when the
> tire is inflated with air. I would recommend nitrogen vs. argon because
> it’s cheaper and the thermal conductivity is about the same as air. The
> thermal conductivity of argon is ~40% less than air, which will cause the
> tire to run somewhat hotter on the road, which is not good for tire life.
> But, this is not a big factor.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: ROGER PIHLAJA<mailto:roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 11:53 AM
> To: daysails at aol.com<mailto:daysails at aol.com>; The Rhodes 22 Email
> List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Getting the weight off the tires for winter
> storage
>
> Hi Jessie,
>
> Yes, having the rear jacks will absolutely stop accumulated water in the
> stern from causing the bow to rise up. It also allows you to have as many
> people in the cockpit as you wish when you are camping.
>
> Unfortunately, a lot of my Rhodes 22 cruising gear is locked up and
> inaccessible at Johnson Mini Storage. MDOT is working on putting in a
> temporary M-30 bridge over the Tittabawassee River in Edenville. However,
> they must first clear the debris from the river channel. This includes the
> pieces of the Wixom Dam powerhouse, turbines, and generators. MDOT crews
> have built a wier just downstream of the wrecked M-30 bridge. This wier
> restricts the flow of the river upstream of the bridge and makes it deep
> enough for a work barge. The work barge is gathering debris from the river
> channel and stacking it on the south river bank. On shore, another tracked
> vehicle with a hydraulic claw is scooping up the debris and loading it into
> dump trucks. I’m sure they will remove the wier when the job is finished.
> However, right now there is a class 3 waterfall/rapids where the river
> spills over the wier. The work barge is operating < 100 yds upstream of
> the wier. So, it’s very dangerous work.
>
> MDOT’s crystal ball is calling for the temporary M-30 bridge to be in
> place by early October. I will have no access to Johnson Mini Storage
> before then. We have no cruise planned on S/V Dynamic Equilibium this year
> because so much of my gear is locked away. However, in August, I have two
> water related adventures planned. I am going to lead my Boy Scout Troop on
> a High Adventure shipwreck SCUBA diving trip in the Straits of Mackinac.
> Then, later in the month, my two sons, my brother-in-law, and I are going
> to attempt a west to east voyage on Lake Superior thru the Pictured Rocks
> National Lakeshore from Munising, MI to Grand Marais, MI by sea kayak.
> This will be a 4 day, 3 night trip along one the most exposed stretches of
> Lake Superior coastline!
>
> Other than that, my summer is dull!
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> > On Jul 12, 2020, at 9:49 AM, Sling via Rhodes22-list <
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >
> > There is another benefit of having these rear jacks. A number of years
> ago I pulled my Rhodes 22 and left it on the trailer at the marina while I
> was working overseas. The drain holes in the cockpit became blocked up with
> leaves and a spring rain storm filled the cockpit with rain water. The
> weight of the water tipped the bow up and the water submerged the motor
> lift. The marina eventually got around to clearing the water out but the
> motor had to be replaced. The jacks would have prevented all this. Of
> course so would cleaning out the cockpit drains. Joe Riley "Sailing on a
> Second Wind" Lake Hartwell, SC
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jesse Shumaker <jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com>
> > To: I wishThe Rhodes 22 EmAail List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Sun, Jul 12, 2020 9:14 am
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Getting the weight off the tires for winter
> storage
> >
> > Roger, thanks for the tips and the photo of your trailer setup. It's
> funny
> > that you should mention the rear jacks since I just did something similar
> > on Friday and the inspiration was from a photo of your trailer that I had
> > stumbled on awhile ago on rhodes22.org (
> > http://rhodes22.org/rhodes/pics/jack1.jpg). I had two tongue jacks, one
> > that was on the trailer when I got it (but the wheel didn't turn very
> well)
> > and another one on the other side that I added last year when I got the
> > trailer - however that one didn't want to turn very well either. I had
> > left on the old one as a backup. Since I was taking care of a few things
> > on my trailer already, I put on a new double wheel tongue jack that is
> more
> > stout. I moved the two jacks that had been on the tongue so that there
> is
> > one on each side of the rear of the trailer, so it serves a similar
> purpose
> > to the jacks you mentioned in terms of stabilization. Since all these
> > jacks are on wheels, chocks are still needed to prevent the trailer from
> > moving around. I like your setup where you put the wheels up on a board,
> > putting chocks on top of the board, and take off most of the weight by
> > using the jacks. Where I park for the winter, there can be some
> occasional
> > standing water or snow so it would be good to have the tires up off the
> > ground a bit. I might use a couple of jack stands on either side as well
> > to spread the load out when I store it for the winter. Tire covers claim
> > to provide some UV protection and are a minimal expense so I'm going to
> put
> > those on. Hopefully all this leads to tires that stay in good shape for
> > longer.
> >
> > As you mentioned, having the jacks on the front and rear should make for
> a
> > stable platform when working on the boat on the hard, or for
> accommodations
> > in campground en route. With the pop top enclosure, and the mosquito
> > netting over the bimini to enclose the cockpit, it really meet the the
> pop
> > up camper criteria!
> >
> > I will take a look at getting a come-along as well. It sounds like that
> > would be a good addition to my growing list of trailering gear.
> >
> > Given the difficult circumstances at your place with the failed dams, do
> > you intend to trailer your boat anywhere else this season?
> >
> >> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 3:08 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Jesse,
> >>
> >> Nice photo! It reminds me of my favorite anchorage called the Church
> Camp
> >> Cove on Sanford Lake prior to the flood this spring. I won’t be
> anchoring
> >> there anytime soon.
> >>
> >> You can certainly use jack stands as per the recommendation of your
> >> automotive gearhead friends. However, you might consider what I did.
> The
> >> attached photo shows a screw-type jack welded onto the trailer frame.
> >> There is one of these jacks port and starboard. They each have a
> >> quick-release pin. They swing up for trailering and come off for
> >> launch/retrieval, so you never immerse them. Using these two jacks and
> the
> >> tongue jack, one can get the weight off the tires for the winter.
> However,
> >> you can also use these jacks to change a tire by the side of the road.
> You
> >> can also use them to level the boat on it’s trailer, so you can use the
> >> Rhodes’ cabin as a sort of travel trailer for overnight stays in
> >> campgrounds. The Rhodes 22’s cabin is way more comfortable than a tent,
> >> there’s a full galley, potta-potti, and you’re way up high so the
> critters
> >> can’t get to you. Some campgrounds don’t allow tent camping, so you
> simply
> >> register your Rhodes 22 Pop-Up Camper! I find it comforting to wake up
> in
> >> the morning looking down on my fellow campers. You will never have to
> >> carry an extra bottle jack again! However, you might consider throwing
> a 2
> >> ton come-along into your bag of trailering gear just in case you get
> stuck
> >> on a launch ramp again. The come-along + a stout anchor rode will
> rescue
> >> you from many sticky situations.
> >>
> >> One of Stan’s beliefs is that everything on the Rhodes 22 should do
> >> multiple duties. I think that philosophy should extend to the trailer
> as
> >> well!
> >>
> >> Roger Pihlaja
> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium[cid:image002.jpg at 01D6579D.86263060]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> >> Windows 10
> >>
> >> From: Chris Geankoplis<mailto:chrisgeankoplis at gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:29 PM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] first road trip with R22
> >>
> >> Thanks for sharing your adventure with us. I enjoyed the tale and lesson
> >> too! Bottle jack, don’t leave home without it.
> >>
> >> On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 16:40, Jesse Shumaker <
> >> jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Last weekend, a couple of friends and I took my Rhodes 22 to Rathbun
> Lake
> >>> in Iowa. It's about 10 times as large as Lake Manawa, where I normally
> >>> sail. Preparation and getting there turned out to be more of an
> >> adventure
> >>> than expected. The week before the trip, I realized the brake line on
> >> the
> >>> trailer had rusted through and had to be replaced. Fortunately, one of
> >> the
> >>> guys going on the trip is a mechanic and took care of that. We tested
> >> out
> >>> the brakes on the trailer the night before leaving, which resulted in a
> >>> broken bunk. I saw that right before we were going to load the boat on
> >> the
> >>> trailer. Much better to have that happen without a boat on it! We
> >>> replaced the bunk, got a spare bunk for the other side (more on that
> >> later)
> >>> and loaded up the boat. For the first time, I used the mast lowering
> >>> system on the water and that worked well.
> >>>
> >>> I picked up a bottle jack and jack stand just before we left the next
> >> day.
> >>> An hour into the trip, the driver side tire on the trailer blew. We
> >>> quickly pulled over since the tire was completely shredded and the
> >> trailer
> >>> was resting on the rim since this is just a single axle trailer.
> >>> Fortunately the rim was not damaged. The tires were 8 ply from 2017.
> >> They
> >>> made the trip from Florida to Iowa a year ago with no problem but
> >> appeared
> >>> to have developed flat spots from sitting over the winter. The
> shredded
> >>> tire took out a minor side light on the trailer and knocked off a
> trailer
> >>> guide bar on that side. I'm lucky it was not more serious. Anyway,
> >> after
> >>> putting on the spare and getting back underway, I found a tire shop a
> few
> >>> miles away so I went ahead and got all new Power King 10 ply tires.
> They
> >>> got us in right away and it was only $100 a tire installed, so I'm
> >> probably
> >>> lucky the blowout happened close to that shop. The trailer runs
> smoother
> >>> on the new tires.
> >>>
> >>> Upon arrival, we were moved to a larger slip than we had reserved since
> >>> that is where they had availability. Instead of the small boats for
> >>> company, we were the tiny boat in these slips. Imagine my surprise to
> >> see
> >>> sailboats up to 40' in Iowa. Some of these bigger boats seem to be
> used
> >>> more as floating condos with a mast rather than getting out and
> sailing.
> >>>
> >>> There was a ramp right next to the slip that we were assigned and we
> saw
> >> a
> >>> couple of powerboats launch and retrieve there, so we figured we would
> >> use
> >>> that ramp. We got the mast up on land and proceeded to back down the
> >> steep
> >>> ramp with the trailer extension in use. After we were fully off the
> >>> trailer, the truck couldn't get back up the ramp. Uh oh. It turns out
> >> we
> >>> backed off the end of the ramp. Fortunately, we had taken the new
> spare
> >>> bunk with us and had removed it from where it was strapped to the
> trailer
> >>> just before launching. We used that as a giant lever placed under the
> >>> frame in front of the wheels to pop up the trailer and then the truck
> was
> >>> able to pull the trailer out. Whew! We later learned that we used the
> >>> high water ramp (the water was not high). Unfortunately there was not
> >>> signage to identify it as the high water ramp and there was no mention
> of
> >>> this by the staff. Oh well, we came out unscathed other than feeling
> >>> embarrassed.
> >>>
> >>> I was also surprised to see two R22s at Rathbun: one from 1976 (which
> had
> >>> been recently for sale) and a 2000. Unfortunately, I did not see the
> >>> owners there. It would have been nice to meet another Rhodie in
> person.
> >>>
> >>> The knot meter read 22NM after a full day of sailing on Friday which is
> >> the
> >>> furthest that I've gone on my boat in a day. We anchored out on Friday
> >> and
> >>> Saturday night. We used the Fortress FX7 anchor that came with the
> boat
> >> on
> >>> the first night and on the second night we used a 13lb Mantus M2 that I
> >>> recently bought. In time I'll be following up with some questions on
> >>> anchoring now that I've got a chance to try out a few things. I've
> read
> >>> the anchoring threads in the archives but I'm really curious to see how
> >>> Peter's new anchoring setup (described at https://youtu.be/VeL_3Ir0yQ4
> )
> >> is
> >>> working out in practice.
> >>>
> >>> I slept in the cabin on the extended settee and my friends each slept
> on
> >>> top of cockpit cushions on a bench. I had made cockpit filler planks
> but
> >>> they were content to each sleep on a bench. It wasn't buggy and we
> >> didn't
> >>> even end up using the netting or pop-top on the second night anchoring.
> >>>
> >>> Returning was a lot easier. We used the normal ramp to retrieve and
> >> didn't
> >>> have any problem. I waded out to check the water depth first to be on
> >> the
> >>> safe side. Mast lowering and raising was easier since we all had been
> >>> through the processes together a few days earlier. Trailering was
> >>> uneventful on the way back. My trailer is at the trailer shop for a
> few
> >>> minor repairs to make sure it's ready for the next adventure.
> >>>
> >>> I definitely learned some lessons about trailering, ramps, and got used
> >> to
> >>> camping on the boat for a few days with a couple of friends.
> >>>
> >>> My friends (both are automotive guys) recommended taking weight off the
> >>> tires by using some jack stands when the boat is on the trailer for the
> >>> winter. Does anyone else do this?
> >>>
> >>> I attached a photo from the anchorage on the last morning before
> leaving.
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> >>
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> >>>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
>
>
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