[Rhodes22-list] Electric Motor

Sun Jun 7 18:23:01 EDT 2020

Charles, thanks for all this information.  I will order one tomorrow, although the Torqeedo website says delivery dates are expected from June 19.  I will order the remote for sure.  Initially, I may not mount it but just keep it wired in and where I can reach it.  Stan recommends putting the control on the port gunwhale, and I have seen a photo of that.  The only problem is that I often am on the starboard side, including when I need to see better as I pull into my boat slip.  So I am likely to put it on the starboard side if I have to make a choice.  Whichever side, I am sure that I will miss it when I am on the other side.

I will probably order the portable solar panel, although mostly it would be to extend range while sailing.  We typically go out for just about two hours and then go back home.  We have never been out overnight in this boat, in 20 years.  Only a few times have we spent as much as a half day on the boat.  I also might order a second battery as insurance against running out of battery charge.  But your experience sounds great and suggests that a second battery is not necessary for many types of  lake sailing.   I would guess that we typically are under motor for about two or three miles in any one sail, but it can be double that, depending on weather and wind direction.  If I change out my 175 genoa for a 130, it will start to point better.  Right now, making significant progress upwind by tacking is almost impossible unless I want to take the trouble to re-route the sheets through the guides inboard.

I hate to replace a 175 in good condition, but I will have the mast down to replace our mainsail anyway.  It is ripped from wear vertically where the colored trim and batten at the clew meets the white sail.  Temporarily, I might be able to patch with sail tape. 

The Torqeedo website says that the 1003 battery weighs 5.3 kg (11.66 lb), while the weight of the 1103 battery is 6 kg (13.2 lbs)—still easily liftable.  If I do buy a second battery, I would need to develop a procedure where I wouldn’t have to carry two batteries back and forth.  

As I turn into my slip, a port turn is probably harder to make sharply than a starboard turn, given that the motor is located on the port side.  I haven’t experimented to find out if that difference is materially noticeable.  

David Keyes

> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:02 PM, Charles Nieman <blue66corvette at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the invite to come sail in Austin. I’ll keep it in mind. 
> 
> I understand all your reasoning regarding the electric motor, and I don’t find fault with any of your conclusions. I would make a couple notes based on my recent acquisition of the 1003. The whinnying sound from the gears is to me fairly minimal and I am not displeased with how ‘loud’ the motor is. Regularly my wife asks “is the motor running?”
> 
> The solar charger is probably a good investment, especially if you plan on spending several days on the lake. We always come home since we live within 20 minutes of the lake. 
> 
> Carrying the battery home to charge between trips is extremely easy, it weights about 6# and charges at the house in a couple hours, if I bother to charge it. I haven’t discharged more than about 30% of the battery on any one day, and have not Curtailed any motoring to save battery. In fact, occasionally have used the motor to power through a tack, since I just leave it down and there isn’t any ‘start up’ effort involved. 
> 
> I too was concerned regarding not being able to ‘motor steer’ without the linkage setup. I have found to my delight that this motor will move me slow enough that getting into my slip is real easy. The gas outboard wouldn’t idle this slow, so I always came in faster than I wanted and had to use the linkage. Now, if necessary I can reverse direction (yes I did have a reverse on my 5 hp Honda) and backup but I don’t find that needed. I lock the motor in straight and leave it lowered all the way for the entire trip. The tiller can get me through very tight turns. 
> 
> The remote throttle is a MUST. The tiller handle throttle is out of reach and the display can’t be seen with the motor lowered enough to operate properly. I didn’t buy originally and had to wait extra to get the remote throttle so I could take it out. Good news is that the display shows your actual speed even when the motor isn’t engaged so it’s like a speedometer while you are sailing and I don’t notice any drain on the battery leaving the unit turned on (not to mention powering through tacks). 
> 
> Good luck; Fair Winds
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Charles Nieman
> 469-955-9842
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: David Keyes <rhodes22dave at gmail.com>
>> Date: June 7, 2020 at 11:51:17 AM CDT
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re:  [Rhodes22-list] Electric Motor
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> 
>> 
>> From internet research, it appears to me that the best small electric outboard alternatives (i.e., the ones with portable, snap-in batteries that can be charged at home) are the Torqeedo Travel 1103 (3hp) and the ePropulsion Spirit Plus (3hp).  The Spirit Plus replaces the Spirit 1.0 and has a larger battery, but will not be available in the U.S. until the second half of August.  I might prefer the Spirit Plus, but I need a motor now to replace my Yamaha 9.9 (which has broken remote control cables adapted to the R22 tiller controls and that are no longer available).  So I probably will order an 1103 in the next day or two unless I read something on this board or from Stan or that I find from further internet research that leaves me looking for a Plan Two.
>> 
>> I will also buy the optional, portable solar panels that come with either motor.  They can charge the battery fully if given enough time, but in addition they can provide some supplemental charging during actual use, so that the range will be increased.  I will probably buy a second, snap-in battery to have on hand for occasionally needing more range in lieu of being towed or having a long swim home.
>> 
>> Both of these motors have optional, remote control throttles., and I will buy one. 
>> 
>> Incidentally, the 1103 improves on the 1003 by using direct drive instead of the reduction gears that produced a high-pitched whining sound.  This improvement may have been to compete with the direct drive ePropulsion motors.
>> 
>> I plan initially to lock the new electric motor in the straight-forward position and rely on my rudder for steering.  I have to make a hard turn to port in close quarters in order to enter my boat slip.  If necessary, I will find a way to link the sailboat tiller’s cross-arm to the handle on the Torqeedo snap-in battery so as to link the motor and rudder in order to turn more sharply.
>> 
>> I think that these small motors are a good choice for sailors who either (1) are looking for a smaller, quieter engine that does not use gas and is conveniently light and portable, or (2) would prefer a larger electric engine to deal with occasional adverse weather or tidal current conditions, but who do not have assured shore power at all times available for battery charging, and who do not have confidence in the ability of solar panels (portable or that could be added installations) to fully charge the electric motor battery or batteries between uses.
>> 
>> I fall into category (2).  Every five or ten years, my lake gets so low the the marina docks have to be floated way out into the lake, where there is no shore power, and this condition would be likely to remain for much of a summer or for two summers.  About five years ago, we had to be transported in a small tender out to the floating docks for two consecutive years, and for that period, there was no shore power available to the docks.
>> 
>> Because I would prefer more power, I also looked at gas engines in the range of 5hp to 8hp, but so far I have not found one with a remote throttle arrangement that would be convenient for the R22.  Instead, their remote throttles are the typical ones for water-ski boats or fishing boats.
>> 
>> David Keyes
>> S/V Arrowhead II (if it had a name plate or painted on the boat, but it doesn’t)
>> Lake Travis
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Charles Nieman <blue66corvette at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I bought the 3hp this spring; it’s great. Max speed on a flat lake is about 4 mph. I haven’t tried to see what it will do against a strong head wind. But I am very pleased. I store motor in cabin, and carry 8lb battery home to charge between trips. It may not work for everyone, but it is perfect for the small lake in Dallas where I sail. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> Charles Nieman
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 5, 2020, at 12:01 PM, Shawn Boles <shawn.sustain at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all :
>>>> Torqueedo has a remote control if you don't like the tiller  control. I
>>>> also bought a add-on from them that allows you to charge the battery on the
>>>> Travel models from house battery using a 12 volt plug cable. (About $50).
>>>> They also make a solar charger for the travel models.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Shawn
>>>> s/v Sweet Baboo
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020, 8:50 AM David Keyes <rhodes22dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, I just thought of a problem (about using an electric motor with
>>>>> heavy batteries installed onboard).   My lake (Lake Travis, Austin, Texas)
>>>>> has large fluctuations—up to 80 or 90 feet—in dry weather when the City of
>>>>> Austin and many downstream water users (rice farmers and downstream
>>>>> industries all the way to the Gulf of Mexico) take water out of the lake.
>>>>> Some summers, when the lake gets very low, our marina has to move it’s
>>>>> docks out from their cove and into the deeper parts of the lake—where there
>>>>> is no shore power.  So a motor such as the Torqeedo 2.0 or 4.0 would be
>>>>> inoperative for an entire summer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This would not be a problem with the small, 3 hp equivalent, Torqeedo C
>>>>> 1103–its relatively light battery can be carried back and forth, charged at
>>>>> home, and snapped back into the engine top, where it looks like part of the
>>>>> engine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Problems: low power and range, rated for sailboats only up to 1-1/2 tons,
>>>>> and steering and throttle only by its non-removable tiller.  I have Stan’s
>>>>> electric motor lift, which is so close to the boat that I would either have
>>>>> to replace the lift or devise a bracket or pin at the motor top clear of
>>>>> the snap-in battery that sits there.  The bracket or pin would permit
>>>>> attachment to the cross-arm that pivots from the sailboat’s rudder head.
>>>>> Also, this could work only if the motor’s tiller can be rotated to a
>>>>> vertical position so as not to hit the transom.
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Keyes
>>>>> S/V Arrowhead II (if a name were painted on it, which it isn’t)
>>>>> Lake Travis
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 2020, at 3:06 AM, jose <jose.faraldo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You're quite right; the remote throttle is significantly wider than the
>>>>>> tiller, so I doubt there would be a good way to mount it there - though I
>>>>>> might lack imagination. In our boat Stan mounted the throttle on the
>>>>>> port-side gunwale (see picture attached), so it is within reach while
>>>>>> handling the tiller.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jose
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> <http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/file/t665/throttle.jpg>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/
>>>>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Charles Nieman <blue66corvette at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I bought the 3hp this spring; it’s great. Max speed on a flat lake is about 4 mph. I haven’t tried to see what it will do against a strong head wind. But I am very pleased. I store motor in cabin, and carry 8lb battery home to charge between trips. It may not work for everyone, but it is perfect for the small lake in Dallas where I sail. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> Charles Nieman
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 5, 2020, at 12:01 PM, Shawn Boles <shawn.sustain at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all :
>>>> Torqueedo has a remote control if you don't like the tiller  control. I
>>>> also bought a add-on from them that allows you to charge the battery on the
>>>> Travel models from house battery using a 12 volt plug cable. (About $50).
>>>> They also make a solar charger for the travel models.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Shawn
>>>> s/v Sweet Baboo
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020, 8:50 AM David Keyes <rhodes22dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, I just thought of a problem (about using an electric motor with
>>>>> heavy batteries installed onboard).   My lake (Lake Travis, Austin, Texas)
>>>>> has large fluctuations—up to 80 or 90 feet—in dry weather when the City of
>>>>> Austin and many downstream water users (rice farmers and downstream
>>>>> industries all the way to the Gulf of Mexico) take water out of the lake.
>>>>> Some summers, when the lake gets very low, our marina has to move it’s
>>>>> docks out from their cove and into the deeper parts of the lake—where there
>>>>> is no shore power.  So a motor such as the Torqeedo 2.0 or 4.0 would be
>>>>> inoperative for an entire summer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This would not be a problem with the small, 3 hp equivalent, Torqeedo C
>>>>> 1103–its relatively light battery can be carried back and forth, charged at
>>>>> home, and snapped back into the engine top, where it looks like part of the
>>>>> engine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Problems: low power and range, rated for sailboats only up to 1-1/2 tons,
>>>>> and steering and throttle only by its non-removable tiller.  I have Stan’s
>>>>> electric motor lift, which is so close to the boat that I would either have
>>>>> to replace the lift or devise a bracket or pin at the motor top clear of
>>>>> the snap-in battery that sits there.  The bracket or pin would permit
>>>>> attachment to the cross-arm that pivots from the sailboat’s rudder head.
>>>>> Also, this could work only if the motor’s tiller can be rotated to a
>>>>> vertical position so as not to hit the transom.
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Keyes
>>>>> S/V Arrowhead II (if a name were painted on it, which it isn’t)
>>>>> Lake Travis
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 2020, at 3:06 AM, jose <jose.faraldo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You're quite right; the remote throttle is significantly wider than the
>>>>>> tiller, so I doubt there would be a good way to mount it there - though I
>>>>>> might lack imagination. In our boat Stan mounted the throttle on the
>>>>>> port-side gunwale (see picture attached), so it is within reach while
>>>>>> handling the tiller.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jose
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> <http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/file/t665/throttle.jpg>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sent from: http://rhodes-22.1065344.n5.nabble.com/
>>>>> 