[Rhodes22-list] CDI Furler Wire Halyard Snapped - What's at the top?

Thu Jun 3 23:50:11 EDT 2021

Roger,

I’m going to be dropping my mast on Saturday and hope to fine tune my rig.  I currently have some lee helm which I want to correct.  How do you recommend measuring the forestay length?  

Thanks,

Michael McKay
s/v Liber 2006/2018

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 3, 2021, at 9:46 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Allyn,
> 
> The pin-to-pin forestay measurement is 27 ft, 9-5/8 inches.  Again, this is the distance from the center of the pin holding the headstay to the masthead toggle to the center of the pin holding the furler assembly to the bow chainplate.  This measurement sets the overall tilt of the mast and it affects the weather helm/lee helm balance of the boat.  Making the forestay longer tilts the mast aft, moves the center of effort (CE) of the sail plan aft, and increases weather helm.  Conversely, making the forestay shorter tilts the mast forward, moves the CE forward, and increases lee helm.  If you think your R-22 has too much weather or lee helm, now is a good time to fix it.  Realistically, you can only change a few inches +/- from the above measurement without running into other issues with your standing rigging, like running out of adjustment on the backstays and lower sidestays.  But, it will have a noticeable effect on your weather helm/lee helm balance.
> 
> It’s almost impossible to have neutral helm throughout the wind range.  For example, S/V Dynamic Equilibrium is setup to have neutral helm in light air, slight lee helm once the angle of heel gets > 10 deg, transitioning to neutral helm, and then slight weather helm as the angle of heel increases.  Neutral helm in light air is OK because you’re going so slow you don’t have any steering feel anyway.  Going from slight lee helm to neutral helm back to slight weather helm as the wind speed increases means you are having to use much less rudder correction, which adds drag, and the boat has less tendency to round up in a moderate puff of wind.  But, by the time you are putting the leeward rail in the water, you want weather helm and a tendency to round up in a gust because it’s safer than lee helm or neutral helm.  As you might imagine, it took a lot of hours on the water to fine tune this setup.  But, I’ve owned my R-22 since 1987 and I lived on a lake.  This is how you set the mast up for racing.
> 
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> 
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
> 
> From: ROGER PIHLAJA<mailto:roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 5:57 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CDI Furler Wire Halyard Snapped - What's at the top?
> 
> Allyn,
> 
> The measurement you need is from the center of the pin at the masthead to the center of the pin at the bow chain plate.  I’m due to be released from the hospital tomorrow evening.  I am certain I have that measurement written down in my Harken Roller Furling manual because I had to specify it when I ordered the new forestay from Harken.  I upgraded from the CDI furler to a Harken Unit 0 furler many years ago.  The Harken furler has upper and lower swivels in order to take full advantage of a foam luff pad on the genoa.  When I get home, I’ll look up the measurement and forward it to you.
> 
> Over the years, I’ve replaced nearly all the standing rigging on my boat.  I like the West Marine rigging service.  Look in the back of their catalog.
> 
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 2, 2021, at 5:40 PM, Allyn Baskerville <allynb at adsne.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Does anyone have forestay length measurements? I'm going to remeasure tonight, but I've already measured twice. I'm surprised at how much longer my measurements were.
>> 
>> 27' 8-1/4" wire only, 27' 11-1/2 with fittings on the end.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Richard Beytagh
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 10:25 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CDI Furler Wire Halyard Snapped - What's at the top?
>> 
>> I've had great service from a company called Dwyer Mast (
>> https://www.dwyermast.com/) and I know they used to do quite a lot of work for Stan at GB. If you give them the right dimensions they'll ake up a new f'stay for you
>> 
>> 
>> ~~~ _/) ~~~
>> 
>> Richard Beytagh
>> Phone: 828 337 0180
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 9:28 AM Allyn Baskerville <allynb at adsne.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I should mention that my boat is 2001. I'm not sure what changes were
>>> made over the years.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
>>> Allyn Baskerville
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 8:25 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CDI Furler Wire Halyard Snapped - What's
>>> at the top?
>>> 
>>> Sorry folks, but I didn't mean halyard - it was the forestay. I just
>>> watched the YouTube video on Silverheels, and the forestay toggle
>>> joint broke at the top fitting exactly like this - the genoa also
>>> dropped in the water exactly as described in the video.
>>> 
>>> I measured the forestay, and the wire only is 27' 8-1/4" and with the
>>> fittings (from the top of where the toggle joint should be to the
>>> bottom of the top threaded part that goes into the turnbuckle) is 27'
>>> 11-1/2". I looked online and found one place that said it was 27' and
>>> another 25'6". I measured both of the dimensions twice. Does anyone
>>> have the dimensions of what this should be?
>>> 
>>> Someone I know recommended sta-lok, but the smallest I can find the
>>> toggle joint is for 5/32" wire and not 1/8". Is there another option,
>>> or should I look at the 5/32" option? I don't have a swaging tool.
>>> 
>>> Thanks, all.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of
>>> ROGER PIHLAJA
>>> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:50 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CDI Furler Wire Halyard Snapped - What's
>>> at the top?
>>> 
>>> Peter,
>>> 
>>> S/V Silver Heels experienced scenario #1 from my previous post.  If
>>> Allyn’s boat experienced the same issue; then, we may have a problem area.
>>> We might want to warn the whole Rhodes list to inspect the toggle
>>> joints on the top of their forestays.  From your U-Tube video, your
>>> failure looked like a chloride stress cracking fatigue failure.  Such
>>> failures are common with 300 series stainless steel alloys in a salt
>>> water environment.  They can be early detected by dye penetrant, magnaflux, or ultrasonic testing.
>>> Dye penetrant would be the easiest for the average boat owner.  All
>>> boats that sail on salt water would be subject to this issue.
>>> 
>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On May 28, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Allyn,
>>>> 
>>>> I had a similar adventure, and made a video about the problem and
>>>> the
>>> fix.  There's a pretty good shot of the top of the mast in there too.
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbKIYYFU73s&t=5s
>>>> 
>>>> Best of luck,
>>>> 
>>>> Peter
>>> 
> 