[Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications - another alternative

Fri Mar 26 11:40:15 EDT 2021

Rick,

OK, here’s 2 books on sail trim

Bill Gladstone, “North U TRIM”, 6th ed, (2007), North U, Madison, CT

“The North U Fast Couse”, (1990), North U, Milford, CT

Each of the above are textbooks as part of a North U sailing class and there are companion videos under the same titles.

Here’s 2 more videos:

Peter Bateman, “Sail Trimming Made Easy”, R129, Bennett Marine Video, Marina Del Ray, CA

“The Shape Of Speed”, R329, Bennett Marine Video, Marina Del Ray, CA

One thing you will note in all of these references is that the traveler is constantly adjusted to maintain the windward/leeward helm balance.  The traveler is not a digital on/off device, it is constantly used for fine tuning while underway.  With the traveler and the tiller both under the control of the helmsman, the Rhodes 22’s helm balance can be adjusted on the fly better than any other boat I’ve ever experienced.  The GBI 29 Traveler has the additional advantage of having sufficient range of motion and responsiveness to be able to depower the rig in a gust and quickly get back on line after the gust has passed.  If other boats could do it, they would!  If your GBI-29 Traveler cannot do this; then, you are using it wrong.  If you are busting your knuckles on your traveler then I can only imagine what unspeakable act you are attempting to commit! 😊

In general, racing dingies do not have as much range of traveler movement as our Rhodes 22’s.  Since the range of movement is limited, you cannot use the traveler to depower the main.  Some keelboats also do not have sufficient range of motion in the traveler.  Some boats are limited by their traveler design, like the 2nd generation traveler on the Rhodes 22, which had poor ergonomics on the clam cleat placement, thus making it hard for the helmsman to operate without leaving his preferred hiking position on the windward gunnel.  Some boats have sticky, poorly designed, &/or placed traveler tracks, thus making it impossible for the helmsman to constantly play with the traveler.  Name the sailboats, other than the Rhodes 22, that you’ve sailed that combine sufficient range of traveler movement to be able to depower the rig, good ergonomics for the helmsman, fast response, and can be operated with one hand.  Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any.  Our boats are unique.

The only Rhodes 22 I have access to is S/V Dynamic Equilibrium, a 1976 model.  How about if I spot you 10 sec/nm?

This thread is getting really long and very old.  Can we please change the subject?

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

From: Graham Stewart<mailto:gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:37 AM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications - another alternative

Rob: No, my boat did not have anything attached to the back stays that would
attach to a traveler. I thought that those with the end cups were specially
made. Otherwise, how were the cups attached?

Graham Stewart
gstewart8 at cogeco.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
Lowe, Rob
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:25 AM
To: 'Curtis Ruck'; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications -
another alternative

Graham,
My first boat was a 1976 and had the traveler bar mounted between two 'bar
end cups' that attached to the back stays.  Is your boat not similarity
equipped? I don't think there was anything special about the backstays.  -
Rob

________________________________
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of Graham
Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:11 AM
To: 'Curtis Ruck' <ruckc at yahoo.com>; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications -
another alternative

I have been interested in the traveler discussion. My boat (1976) didn't
have a traveler when I got it and the mainsheet was simply attached to the
table base in the cockpit. My backstays are not equipped to install a
traveler and replacing the stays with new ones seemed cost prohibitive to
me. Initially I installed a traveler between the lazerette and the cockpit
seats. That worked well enough but made movement around the cockpit awkward.

My latest version was to mount the traveler track to a 1" stainless steel
tube and fasten that to my stern rail where it would seem to work in a
manner similar to those attached to the back stays. The rail does not flex
like the backstays would but I don't know if that is a good thing or not.
While this system seems very strong to me I am no engineer or otherwise
qualified to know.

For those who are reluctant to pay the cost of both the backstay replacement
plus the cost of the new traveler this arrangement might be worth
considering.

I like that the traveler being close to the stern rail means I don't have an
additional barrier to reaching over the stern rail to lift the motor and
that it is out of the way when sailing. I don't like the fact the it is
awkward to reach the lee traveler line. Any thought on improvements or
worries about this installation would be welcome.

Graham Stewart
Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
Kingston Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
Curtis Ruck via Rhodes22-list
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 9:45 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications

Hmm, i'll jump in and throw my two cents in, with my 1976 R22.

When i'm racing in gusty 15+ knots... i am typically sitting on the side
rails above the seat, with one hand on the tiller extension and my other
fully gloved hand is holding the mainsheet uncleated, and i use that hand
to either let slip the mainsheet in a strong gust, or i give and take a
little with my hand holding the mainsheet from flying loose.  I have a
harken 3:1 windward sheeting traveler rail mounted on the back stays.  I
try to get the mainsheet as flat as possible.  I would never use my
traveler to try controlling the main for gusting, holding the uncleated
mainsheet just feels natural, a little give, a little take, lets me feel
like i'm riding with the wind, and it allows instant response.  Though on
long races my arms feel it.

BTW, my traveler setup in the picture.  I mounted the harken traveler rail
on a 1" OD Fiberglass tube with stainless 316 mounts on each end that the
backstays run through.  Mounts are attached to the backstay with a small
stainless tube slightly larger than the backstay diameter to reduce the
friction wear on the backstays.  I love the setup, but sometimes wish I had
a fixed traveler rail that wasn't floating.

[image: image.png]

--
Curtis

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 8:38 PM Shawn Boles <shawn.sustain at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh boy, a match race! Much more enjoyable than the obscene, but
> fascinating, America's Cup races I just watched.
>
> Cheers,
> Shawn s/v Sweet Baboo (1986/2010)
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 1:49 PM Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Roger,
> >
> > I learned to sail and race by taking a college physical education class
> > over 50 years ago.  I've raced dinghies through keel boats, including
the
> > R22, and as skipper, have a few blue flags to show for it.
> >
> > I accept your challenge to match race R22's with the IMF and diamond
> board.
> >
> > I challenge you to produce the videos you said are so common
> demonstrating
> > using the traveller on small sloops to dump wind during gusts
> > that overpower while close hauled.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rick Lange
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 2:44 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Rick,
> > >
> > > We were having a discussion of mainsail trim and traveler use in heavy
> > air
> > > wherein the rig needs to be depowered in gusts and then quickly
brought
> > > back on line after the gust has passed.  Mainsail shape for <= 10
knots
> > is
> > > considered light air and is a different subject.  As you noted, the
> > optimum
> > > light air mainsail shape is achieved with a different traveler car
> > position
> > > and mainsheet tension vs heavy air.  In light air, it is also much
less
> > > likely the rig will need to be depowered as per the original
> discussion.
> > >
> > > It is beyond the scope of my job description to give tutorials on sail
> > > trim in all possible conditions. I suggest you take a class or go
> racing.
> > >
> > > Stan,
> > >
> > > I give up!  I've tried to explain the merits of your GBI 29 Traveler
to
> > > the best of my ability.  But, it's not working.  If you want to jump
> into
> > > this discussion, go ahead.  But, I'm done.
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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