[Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications - another alternative

[stan]

Mike, you are a member of ROC entitled to pick what is left of my grey 
matter:
/
//"Is it normal?" /NO

/"does it need lubrication"/     NO

/"How much tension should be in the traveler line?" /Here is your 
answer.  If you don't know how to adjust the slack i your continuous 
control line, email me if you do not get an earlier response.

stan
//




On 3/26/21 11:56 AM, Michael McKay wrote:
> One last group of questions before we change the topic—I am new to my R22,
> but I find my traveler very “stiff” and fairly hard to adjust without
> considerable physical effort.  Is that normal or does it need some
> lubrication?  How much tension should be in the traveler line?
>
> Thank you for the very informative discussion.
>
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 11:40 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> OK, here’s 2 books on sail trim
>>
>> Bill Gladstone, “North U TRIM”, 6th ed, (2007), North U, Madison, CT
>>
>> “The North U Fast Couse”, (1990), North U, Milford, CT
>>
>> Each of the above are textbooks as part of a North U sailing class and
>> there are companion videos under the same titles.
>>
>> Here’s 2 more videos:
>>
>> Peter Bateman, “Sail Trimming Made Easy”, R129, Bennett Marine Video,
>> Marina Del Ray, CA
>>
>> “The Shape Of Speed”, R329, Bennett Marine Video, Marina Del Ray, CA
>>
>> One thing you will note in all of these references is that the traveler is
>> constantly adjusted to maintain the windward/leeward helm balance.  The
>> traveler is not a digital on/off device, it is constantly used for fine
>> tuning while underway.  With the traveler and the tiller both under the
>> control of the helmsman, the Rhodes 22’s helm balance can be adjusted on
>> the fly better than any other boat I’ve ever experienced.  The GBI 29
>> Traveler has the additional advantage of having sufficient range of motion
>> and responsiveness to be able to depower the rig in a gust and quickly get
>> back on line after the gust has passed.  If other boats could do it, they
>> would!  If your GBI-29 Traveler cannot do this; then, you are using it
>> wrong.  If you are busting your knuckles on your traveler then I can only
>> imagine what unspeakable act you are attempting to commit! 😊
>>
>> In general, racing dingies do not have as much range of traveler movement
>> as our Rhodes 22’s.  Since the range of movement is limited, you cannot use
>> the traveler to depower the main.  Some keelboats also do not have
>> sufficient range of motion in the traveler.  Some boats are limited by
>> their traveler design, like the 2nd generation traveler on the Rhodes 22,
>> which had poor ergonomics on the clam cleat placement, thus making it hard
>> for the helmsman to operate without leaving his preferred hiking position
>> on the windward gunnel.  Some boats have sticky, poorly designed, &/or
>> placed traveler tracks, thus making it impossible for the helmsman to
>> constantly play with the traveler.  Name the sailboats, other than the
>> Rhodes 22, that you’ve sailed that combine sufficient range of traveler
>> movement to be able to depower the rig, good ergonomics for the helmsman,
>> fast response, and can be operated with one hand.  Off the top of my head,
>> I can’t think of any.  Our boats are unique.
>>
>> The only Rhodes 22 I have access to is S/V Dynamic Equilibrium, a 1976
>> model.  How about if I spot you 10 sec/nm?
>>
>> This thread is getting really long and very old.  Can we please change the
>> subject?
>>
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>
>> From: Graham Stewart<mailto:gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:37 AM
>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications -
>> another alternative
>>
>> Rob: No, my boat did not have anything attached to the back stays that
>> would
>> attach to a traveler. I thought that those with the end cups were specially
>> made. Otherwise, how were the cups attached?
>>
>> Graham Stewart
>> gstewart8 at cogeco.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Lowe, Rob
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:25 AM
>> To: 'Curtis Ruck'; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications -
>> another alternative
>>
>> Graham,
>> My first boat was a 1976 and had the traveler bar mounted between two 'bar
>> end cups' that attached to the back stays.  Is your boat not similarity
>> equipped? I don't think there was anything special about the backstays.  -
>> Rob
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of
>> Graham
>> Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:11 AM
>> To: 'Curtis Ruck' <ruckc at yahoo.com>; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications -
>> another alternative
>>
>> I have been interested in the traveler discussion. My boat (1976) didn't
>> have a traveler when I got it and the mainsheet was simply attached to the
>> table base in the cockpit. My backstays are not equipped to install a
>> traveler and replacing the stays with new ones seemed cost prohibitive to
>> me. Initially I installed a traveler between the lazerette and the cockpit
>> seats. That worked well enough but made movement around the cockpit
>> awkward.
>>
>> My latest version was to mount the traveler track to a 1" stainless steel
>> tube and fasten that to my stern rail where it would seem to work in a
>> manner similar to those attached to the back stays. The rail does not flex
>> like the backstays would but I don't know if that is a good thing or not.
>> While this system seems very strong to me I am no engineer or otherwise
>> qualified to know.
>>
>> For those who are reluctant to pay the cost of both the backstay
>> replacement
>> plus the cost of the new traveler this arrangement might be worth
>> considering.
>>
>> I like that the traveler being close to the stern rail means I don't have
>> an
>> additional barrier to reaching over the stern rail to lift the motor and
>> that it is out of the way when sailing. I don't like the fact the it is
>> awkward to reach the lee traveler line. Any thought on improvements or
>> worries about this installation would be welcome.
>>
>> Graham Stewart
>> Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
>> Kingston Ontario
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Curtis Ruck via Rhodes22-list
>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 9:45 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications
>>
>> Hmm, i'll jump in and throw my two cents in, with my 1976 R22.
>>
>> When i'm racing in gusty 15+ knots... i am typically sitting on the side
>> rails above the seat, with one hand on the tiller extension and my other
>> fully gloved hand is holding the mainsheet uncleated, and i use that hand
>> to either let slip the mainsheet in a strong gust, or i give and take a
>> little with my hand holding the mainsheet from flying loose.  I have a
>> harken 3:1 windward sheeting traveler rail mounted on the back stays.  I
>> try to get the mainsheet as flat as possible.  I would never use my
>> traveler to try controlling the main for gusting, holding the uncleated
>> mainsheet just feels natural, a little give, a little take, lets me feel
>> like i'm riding with the wind, and it allows instant response.  Though on
>> long races my arms feel it.
>>
>> BTW, my traveler setup in the picture.  I mounted the harken traveler rail
>> on a 1" OD Fiberglass tube with stainless 316 mounts on each end that the
>> backstays run through.  Mounts are attached to the backstay with a small
>> stainless tube slightly larger than the backstay diameter to reduce the
>> friction wear on the backstays.  I love the setup, but sometimes wish I had
>> a fixed traveler rail that wasn't floating.
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> --
>> Curtis
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 8:38 PM Shawn Boles <shawn.sustain at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh boy, a match race! Much more enjoyable than the obscene, but
>>> fascinating, America's Cup races I just watched.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Shawn s/v Sweet Baboo (1986/2010)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 1:49 PM Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> Roger,
>>>>
>>>> I learned to sail and race by taking a college physical education class
>>>> over 50 years ago.  I've raced dinghies through keel boats, including
>> the
>>>> R22, and as skipper, have a few blue flags to show for it.
>>>>
>>>> I accept your challenge to match race R22's with the IMF and diamond
>>> board.
>>>> I challenge you to produce the videos you said are so common
>>> demonstrating
>>>> using the traveller on small sloops to dump wind during gusts
>>>> that overpower while close hauled.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Rick Lange
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 2:44 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>
>>>>> We were having a discussion of mainsail trim and traveler use in
>> heavy
>>>> air
>>>>> wherein the rig needs to be depowered in gusts and then quickly
>> brought
>>>>> back on line after the gust has passed.  Mainsail shape for <= 10
>> knots
>>>> is
>>>>> considered light air and is a different subject.  As you noted, the
>>>> optimum
>>>>> light air mainsail shape is achieved with a different traveler car
>>>> position
>>>>> and mainsheet tension vs heavy air.  In light air, it is also much
>> less
>>>>> likely the rig will need to be depowered as per the original
>>> discussion.
>>>>> It is beyond the scope of my job description to give tutorials on
>> sail
>>>>> trim in all possible conditions. I suggest you take a class or go
>>> racing.
>>>>> Stan,
>>>>>
>>>>> I give up!  I've tried to explain the merits of your GBI 29 Traveler
>> to
>>>>> the best of my ability.  But, it's not working.  If you want to jump
>>> into
>>>>> this discussion, go ahead.  But, I'm done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>> --
> Michael McKay (mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com)