[Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications - another alternative

Sat Mar 27 21:24:37 EDT 2021

So,

How did we arrive at the GBI 29 Traveler designation? Save me from reading
the 46+ posts.

Todd T.

tavares0947 at gmail.com

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 9:00 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:

> Rick,
>
> In all the dozens of posts in this thread, someone said they were busting
> their knuckles on their traveler.  I don’t remember who.  I remember asking
> what they were hitting their knuckles on.  I don’t think I ever got a
> response.
>
> Can you post a picture of your traveler?  From your last post, it sounds
> like you don’t have a GBI 29 Traveler.  Rather, you have a 2nd generation
> traveler modified with cam cleats replacing the OEM standard jam cleats.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Rick Lange<mailto:sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 11:41 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications -
> another alternative
>
> Roger,
>
> Although dated in that they don't address loose footed mainsails, these are
> interesting videos.  But they miss the mark.
>
> The videos are talking about trimming the mainsail for windshifts, not
> depowering for gusts.  The wind may change direction following a gust, but
> you better know how to focus on the main problem during the gust..
> Otherwise, you will be sitting in irons down course as I breeze over the
> finish line.  On the R22, you need to learn how to release the mainsheet
> when a gust starts heading the boat up and then deal with the traveller if
> needed once the wind dies back.
>
> Where did you get the idea that I bust my knuckles on my traveller?  I have
> a 90's vintage one from Stan and it is completely harmless, unlike some
> others I've experienced.  The only thing is, I switched out the jam cleats
> for cam cleats to more reliably hold the control line and to give better
> tacktile control pulling the traveller toward me.  And tying together the
> control line ends makes popping the cleats easy.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rick Lange
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 11:40 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Rick,
> >
> > OK, here’s 2 books on sail trim
> >
> > Bill Gladstone, “North U TRIM”, 6th ed, (2007), North U, Madison, CT
> >
> > “The North U Fast Couse”, (1990), North U, Milford, CT
> >
> > Each of the above are textbooks as part of a North U sailing class and
> > there are companion videos under the same titles.
> >
> > Here’s 2 more videos:
> >
> > Peter Bateman, “Sail Trimming Made Easy”, R129, Bennett Marine Video,
> > Marina Del Ray, CA
> >
> > “The Shape Of Speed”, R329, Bennett Marine Video, Marina Del Ray, CA
> >
> > One thing you will note in all of these references is that the traveler
> is
> > constantly adjusted to maintain the windward/leeward helm balance.  The
> > traveler is not a digital on/off device, it is constantly used for fine
> > tuning while underway.  With the traveler and the tiller both under the
> > control of the helmsman, the Rhodes 22’s helm balance can be adjusted on
> > the fly better than any other boat I’ve ever experienced.  The GBI 29
> > Traveler has the additional advantage of having sufficient range of
> motion
> > and responsiveness to be able to depower the rig in a gust and quickly
> get
> > back on line after the gust has passed.  If other boats could do it, they
> > would!  If your GBI-29 Traveler cannot do this; then, you are using it
> > wrong.  If you are busting your knuckles on your traveler then I can only
> > imagine what unspeakable act you are attempting to commit! 😊
> >
> > In general, racing dingies do not have as much range of traveler movement
> > as our Rhodes 22’s.  Since the range of movement is limited, you cannot
> use
> > the traveler to depower the main.  Some keelboats also do not have
> > sufficient range of motion in the traveler.  Some boats are limited by
> > their traveler design, like the 2nd generation traveler on the Rhodes 22,
> > which had poor ergonomics on the clam cleat placement, thus making it
> hard
> > for the helmsman to operate without leaving his preferred hiking position
> > on the windward gunnel.  Some boats have sticky, poorly designed, &/or
> > placed traveler tracks, thus making it impossible for the helmsman to
> > constantly play with the traveler.  Name the sailboats, other than the
> > Rhodes 22, that you’ve sailed that combine sufficient range of traveler
> > movement to be able to depower the rig, good ergonomics for the helmsman,
> > fast response, and can be operated with one hand.  Off the top of my
> head,
> > I can’t think of any.  Our boats are unique.
> >
> > The only Rhodes 22 I have access to is S/V Dynamic Equilibrium, a 1976
> > model.  How about if I spot you 10 sec/nm?
> >
> > This thread is getting really long and very old.  Can we please change
> the
> > subject?
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > From: Graham Stewart<mailto:gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:37 AM
> > To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications
> -
> > another alternative
> >
> > Rob: No, my boat did not have anything attached to the back stays that
> > would
> > attach to a traveler. I thought that those with the end cups were
> specially
> > made. Otherwise, how were the cups attached?
> >
> > Graham Stewart
> > gstewart8 at cogeco.ca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > Lowe, Rob
> > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:25 AM
> > To: 'Curtis Ruck'; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications
> -
> > another alternative
> >
> > Graham,
> > My first boat was a 1976 and had the traveler bar mounted between two
> 'bar
> > end cups' that attached to the back stays.  Is your boat not similarity
> > equipped? I don't think there was anything special about the backstays.
> -
> > Rob
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of
> > Graham
> > Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 10:11 AM
> > To: 'Curtis Ruck' <ruckc at yahoo.com>; 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications
> -
> > another alternative
> >
> > I have been interested in the traveler discussion. My boat (1976) didn't
> > have a traveler when I got it and the mainsheet was simply attached to
> the
> > table base in the cockpit. My backstays are not equipped to install a
> > traveler and replacing the stays with new ones seemed cost prohibitive to
> > me. Initially I installed a traveler between the lazerette and the
> cockpit
> > seats. That worked well enough but made movement around the cockpit
> > awkward.
> >
> > My latest version was to mount the traveler track to a 1" stainless steel
> > tube and fasten that to my stern rail where it would seem to work in a
> > manner similar to those attached to the back stays. The rail does not
> flex
> > like the backstays would but I don't know if that is a good thing or not.
> > While this system seems very strong to me I am no engineer or otherwise
> > qualified to know.
> >
> > For those who are reluctant to pay the cost of both the backstay
> > replacement
> > plus the cost of the new traveler this arrangement might be worth
> > considering.
> >
> > I like that the traveler being close to the stern rail means I don't have
> > an
> > additional barrier to reaching over the stern rail to lift the motor and
> > that it is out of the way when sailing. I don't like the fact the it is
> > awkward to reach the lee traveler line. Any thought on improvements or
> > worries about this installation would be welcome.
> >
> > Graham Stewart
> > Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
> > Kingston Ontario
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > Curtis Ruck via Rhodes22-list
> > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 9:45 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Rhodes22e-list] New Traveler Modifications
> >
> > Hmm, i'll jump in and throw my two cents in, with my 1976 R22.
> >
> > When i'm racing in gusty 15+ knots... i am typically sitting on the side
> > rails above the seat, with one hand on the tiller extension and my other
> > fully gloved hand is holding the mainsheet uncleated, and i use that hand
> > to either let slip the mainsheet in a strong gust, or i give and take a
> > little with my hand holding the mainsheet from flying loose.  I have a
> > harken 3:1 windward sheeting traveler rail mounted on the back stays.  I
> > try to get the mainsheet as flat as possible.  I would never use my
> > traveler to try controlling the main for gusting, holding the uncleated
> > mainsheet just feels natural, a little give, a little take, lets me feel
> > like i'm riding with the wind, and it allows instant response.  Though on
> > long races my arms feel it.
> >
> > BTW, my traveler setup in the picture.  I mounted the harken traveler
> rail
> > on a 1" OD Fiberglass tube with stainless 316 mounts on each end that the
> > backstays run through.  Mounts are attached to the backstay with a small
> > stainless tube slightly larger than the backstay diameter to reduce the
> > friction wear on the backstays.  I love the setup, but sometimes wish I
> had
> > a fixed traveler rail that wasn't floating.
> >
> > [image: image.png]
> >
> > --
> > Curtis
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 8:38 PM Shawn Boles <shawn.sustain at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oh boy, a match race! Much more enjoyable than the obscene, but
> > > fascinating, America's Cup races I just watched.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Shawn s/v Sweet Baboo (1986/2010)
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 1:49 PM Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Roger,
> > > >
> > > > I learned to sail and race by taking a college physical education
> class
> > > > over 50 years ago.  I've raced dinghies through keel boats, including
> > the
> > > > R22, and as skipper, have a few blue flags to show for it.
> > > >
> > > > I accept your challenge to match race R22's with the IMF and diamond
> > > board.
> > > >
> > > > I challenge you to produce the videos you said are so common
> > > demonstrating
> > > > using the traveller on small sloops to dump wind during gusts
> > > > that overpower while close hauled.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Rick Lange
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 2:44 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Rick,
> > > > >
> > > > > We were having a discussion of mainsail trim and traveler use in
> > heavy
> > > > air
> > > > > wherein the rig needs to be depowered in gusts and then quickly
> > brought
> > > > > back on line after the gust has passed.  Mainsail shape for <= 10
> > knots
> > > > is
> > > > > considered light air and is a different subject.  As you noted, the
> > > > optimum
> > > > > light air mainsail shape is achieved with a different traveler car
> > > > position
> > > > > and mainsheet tension vs heavy air.  In light air, it is also much
> > less
> > > > > likely the rig will need to be depowered as per the original
> > > discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is beyond the scope of my job description to give tutorials on
> > sail
> > > > > trim in all possible conditions. I suggest you take a class or go
> > > racing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stan,
> > > > >
> > > > > I give up!  I've tried to explain the merits of your GBI 29
> Traveler
> > to
> > > > > the best of my ability.  But, it's not working.  If you want to
> jump
> > > into
> > > > > this discussion, go ahead.  But, I'm done.
> > > > >
> > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
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