[Rhodes22-list] Axle location

Fri May 21 12:55:47 EDT 2021

Graham,

As I assumed for your boat in my previous post because it’s the same model year R-22, my 15 gallon water tank is permanently mounted amidships at the aft end of the V-berth between the flotation foam and the low V-berth bulkhead.  My battery is mounted on the port side of the water tank and there is under V-berth storage on the starboard side next to the water tank.

No problem about the trailer.  I can imagine how frustrating it must be to suspect your trailer was built wrong and have people telling you that you couldn’t trailer your boat with the outboard mounted.  What nonsense!  I’m glad I was able to help you.  Good Luck!

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

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From: Graham Stewart<mailto:gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 11:26 AM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Axle location

Perfect. Thanks Roger. That is much simpler than what I had imagined. I appreciate your patience as now that I see it, it should have been obvious to me.

My boat has always had a full marine toilet and holding tank. When I got my boat about 26 years ago the holding tank was immediately behind the V-birth and there was no water tank on the boat nor was there any obvious place where one had been even though there was a deck fill. After my rebuild I replaced the old metal, and leaking, holding tank with a smaller poly tank in the same place as the previous tank had been but I also had room for my battery. Because I just day sail in recent years my holding tank is empty all of the time - so no weight there to speak of.

For water I am using a removable jerry can that stays below the sink midship on the starboard side. Again, there is rarely any water in it. When I need water I just take the can up to my house and fill what I need. I have a deck fill installed but it is easier to just fill the tank given that my boat is docked in front of my house.

Where is your water tank located?

Graham Stewart
Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
Kingston Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 8:03 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Axle location

Graham,

You will need a bathroom scale that reads up to 350 lbs and 2 hydraulic bottle jacks.  First load up the boat as you will have it for trailering it down the road.  In my case, that includes a full tank of fuel, empty porta-potti, full water tank, and of course, the outboard mounted on the transom.  I assume you have a tongue jack?  If not, you will need a jack stand or something to support the end of the tongue on top of the scale.  Start by putting the tongue jack on top of the scale and get a tongue weight measurement.  The rule of thumb for tongue weight is about 10% of the gross trailer weight in order to have stability.  Figure your boat and single axle trailer weighs about 3100 lbs.  So, you need about 310 lbs of tongue weight.  Now, jack the trailer frame up from the same spot on both sides.  I would start immediately behind the tires.  Get the trailer’s frame at approximately the same level as when it was supported by the tires.  Note that you will probably have to remove the tires to get it low enough.  Now, measure the tongue weight as before.  It should be greater than before.  Keep moving the jack points aft until you find a spot on the frame that gives you about 310 lbs of tongue weight.  That’s where your single axle needs to be moved to.

By the way, your R-22 is the same year as mine.  The early R-22’s had porta-potti’s, not marine toilets and holding tanks.  Where is your water tank located?

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

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From: Graham Stewart<mailto:gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 9:59 PM
To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Axle location

Thanks to all for their suggestions. It seems that the best solution for me would be to have the axle moved back. I don't trailer enough to justify the second axle and the other option to add weight to the tongue seem to me to be a workaround rather than a fix and moving the boat forward is both very difficult and damaging to the hull. The area immediately aft of the V-birth hold my holding tank and battery, not my water tank,  so obviously I am not going to keep my holding tank full permanently.

The big question for me now is to determine exactly how far aft I will have the axle moved. If anyone can suggest how I might determine that distance I would be grateful to hear your suggestions.

Graham Stewart
Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
Kingston Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 5:20 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Axle location

Graham,

Assuming you have a 15 gallon water tank mounted at the aft end of the V-berths, filling it would add ~125 lbs.  This additional weight would be located at about the front end of the bunks on the trailer.  Because the weight is not located right on the end of the tongue, you will not see the full 125 lbs as additional tongue weight.  On S/V Dynamic Equilibrium and my Lil Dude trailer, filling the water tank adds about 48 lbs of tongue weight.  The rest of the 125 lbs is loaded onto the trailer wheels because of the location of the water tank.  If the tongue weight situation on your trailer is causing marginal stability; this extra 48 lbs may help.  It certainly won’t hurt.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 20, 2021, at 4:59 PM, Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Graham,
>
> Fill your water tank.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rick Lange
>
>
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 4:54 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:
>>
>> Graham,
>>
>> Whatever the reference point or the measurement, the fact that your tongue
>> weight is too low tells you everything you need to know.  If you don’t want
>> to just live with it, your options are: move the single axle backward on
>> the trailer, add a 2nd axle behind the 1st, move the boat forward on the
>> trailer, or add weight to the tongue.
>>
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> From: Graham Stewart<mailto:gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 12:50 PM
>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Axle locattion
>>
>> Sorry for the confusion. Because all of the other dimensions matched the
>> drawing I used the distance from the axle to the back because it was the
>> easiest measurement forgetting that others might have a different
>> structure.
>>
>> The distance between the center of the axle and the point where the
>> extension enters the trailer is 165" while that distance on the drawing is
>> 172"
>>
>> Graham Stewart
>> gstewart8 at cogeco.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Lowe, Rob
>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 12:33 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Axle locattion
>>
>> I agree with Todd that the reference point should be the center of the ball
>> socket.  That's where the tongue weight is measure and where the towing
>> force is applied. - Rob
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of Todd
>> Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 11:11 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Axle locattion
>>
>> By looking at these old drawings, I guess the datum point/benchmark really
>> should have been the center of the ball socket, which would have better
>> standardized the tongue weight (and balance). That would have to assume the
>> coupler and extension lengths were somewhat uniform.
>>
>> Measuring the axle position from the rear of the trailer frame or the rear
>> bunk support is not the best reference.
>> Also, the angles of the bunks are a little off (I was never good at trig).
>> Thankfully my carpenter's calculator has a rise over run function. The
>> angles for the bunks are closer to 22.5° in the rear and 37° in the front
>> (from horizontal).
>>
>> I seemed to remember there was approximately a 6" difference in axle
>> positions between owners' trailers, but most reported the more rearward
>> dimension so I changed the drawing. There may be early drawings of the
>> trailer in the archives before I edited the drawing which show the forward
>> measurements..but I do not know.
>>
>> Todd T.
>>
>>> On Thu, May 20, 2021, 10:46 AM Cary Tolbert <retiredtoby at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Graham, my boat is an '86 and the trailer that came with the boat is a
>>> Triad.. Therefore I must assume the trailer is an 86 as well. I just
>>> measured from the end of the trailer to the center of the axle and it is
>> ,
>>> DRUM ROLL  . . . . . . . . . 75 1/2 inch. Sorry to add to the confusion..
>>> My front end measurements may also be off. I had the extension bar
>> replaced
>>> and last year added a braking system which added to the length of the
>>> extension with a brake actuator.  Mike is the second generation in the
>>> trailer company and I am sure the trailer has evolved over the years.
>> You
>>> know that Stan is always tinkering with something. I think my trailer was
>>> manufactured in Connecticut . The newer trailers are made in NC.
>>>
>>> Best of luck
>>> Cary
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 9:33 AM Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just measured the location of my axle and compared it to the drawings
>>>> prepared by Todd and found that my axle is 7" forward of what the
>>> drawings
>>>> specify. That strikes me as a pretty significant difference. I am
>>> wondering
>>>> if the others who have found it impossible to get their boats far
>> enough
>>>> forward might also measure the distance between the back of their
>> trailer
>>>> to the center of the axle to see if this is the reason for the
>>> difficulty.
>>>> The drawing stipulates that this distance should be 70" but mine is
>> 77".
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know whether this dimension changed at some time between
>>> older
>>>> and newer iterations of the boat?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Graham Stewart
>>>> Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
>>>> Kingston Ontario
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>