[Rhodes22-list] Ballast vs. Weight aloft

[C. Robert Lester]

Thanks Roger.
Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 7:03 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Ballast vs. Weight aloft

Chris,

I’m glad my suggestion worked well for you.  When you get the rig dialed in properly, it does seem magical!

S/V Dynamic Equilibrium will consistently tack thru ~85 deg under similar conditions.  But, my boat has a high tech bi-radial composite genoa on  Harken roller furler and a very roachy fully battened conventional mainsail.  For the standard genoa and IMF mainsail, 90 deg tacking angles are about the best one can expect.  That’s pretty good for a trailerable cruising sailboat.

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2022, at 2:07 PM, Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
> 
> Thank you all for this great discussion. I have to add this input since we have been struggling to get our Rhodes to point higher for a few years now.
> 
> Yesterday in about 9 to 12 knots of wind we tried Roger's suggestion of unfurling the jib until just before we heeled too much, then unfurled the main until we achieved neutral helm. We sailed flat on a tight beat and we were able to tack 90 degrees for the first time ever (for us). My wife and I are about 300 lbs together and prefer not to sit up on the rails (doing so interferes with our beverage consumption). With the neutral helm I was able to lock the tiller with our new Tiller Clutch and steer the boat by slightly adjusting my weight side-to-side; it was very satisfying and made us both very happy sailors. It felt almost magical.
> 
> We almost certainly gave up some speed by not unfurling more sail; more weight in the cockpit would allow us to add sail area while maintaining neutral helm and minimal heel angle.
> 
> Thanks for all the great information.
> 
> Chris
> 
>> On 8/1/2022 8:45 PM, C. Robert Lester wrote:
>> Hello all sorry it took me a few days to get back to you.
>> 
>> First let me say I'm surprised that our boats have a "flat, neutral Helm". As I would like to achieve that.
>> 
>> During this sail the other day in the high winds I had a combination of weather Helm and Lee Helm as I tried to point, efficiently and strategically!
>> 
>> Taking advantage of a recommendation from this list I reefed the sails early as I rounded one point because the wind was about to get stronger.
>> 
>> It's not that I mind luffing the sails in a puff or high gust until I can gain control again, however in a race this cost me time.
>> 
>> I do agree with the statement that the head sail is for Speed and the main sail is for trimming and powering up or down as needed.
>> 
>> My takeaway from your response is one that I will remember because I never moved the cars on the track forward as much as I could.
>> 
>> Before racing my Rhodes in division 2 I raced on the same Lake in division 1 on a j80 as well as a Sonar 23. I feel like I'm guilty of expecting our Rhodes sailboats to perform as well as these in high winds.
>> 
>> I appreciate the feedback all,
>> Bob ORION '84
>> 
>> Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device
>> From: roger_pihlaja at msn.com
>> Sent: July 31, 2022 12:19 PM
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Ballast vs. Weight aloft
>> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> So, about how much were you heeling over and how much weather helm did you have?
>> 
>> The more the boat heels over, the more weather helm is developed by the hull.  This tendency to develop weather helm can be countered by deploying more genoa and less mainsail.  The Rhodes 22 will point highest if it can sailed flat with near neutral helm.  But, at any angle of heel, the boat will point highest if the sail area is distributed fore/aft to produce near neutral helm.  Also, your genoa sheet lead position should have been all the way forward on the track.
>> 
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jul 30, 2022, at 11:13 PM, C. Robert Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm looking to learn something from all of you if I can advocate for myself and my ORION '84 R22.
>>> It's my opinion that there is a technique I have not mastered yet on sailing an '84 R22 with little ballast in high winds with all the weight aloft from the 155 Genoa + IMF sail with its vertical weight.
>>> Today's 3 hrs trip around Lake Sunapee in 8 to 25 mph wind gusts proved a test of my ability to sail efficiently with reefed headsail and main.
>>> 
>>> SETTING:
>>> Main = 4' of sail at the foot
>>> Headsail = 4' - 6' of sail at the foot
>>> 
>>> Skipper (solo) at 195lbs for mobile ballast.
>>> 
>>> I love the heel of the boat in high winds (hobie cat sailor) but I want for higher speed / higher pointing at those angles.
>>> The boat heels but never reaches a strong flat speed so I can point!
>>> I feel like the answer is more ballast?
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> ORION '84
>