[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
Scott McFall
scott at hypnosisconnection.com
Sun Dec 4 10:41:33 EST 2022
I am selling my 2008 Rhodes 22 if anyone is looking. I am wanting 17500. Not sure if we do that in this feed or not
> On Dec 4, 2022, at 10:38 AM, rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> 2. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> 3. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> 4. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> 5. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668 at gmail.com)
> 6. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (ROGER PIHLAJA)
> 7. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> 8. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> 9. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (jpd9668)
> 10. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> 11. Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)
> 12. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Peter Nyberg)
> 13. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (ROGER PIHLAJA)
> 14. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (cjlowe at sssnet.com)
> 15. Re: Removing Gas from Fuel Line (Lee Kuhn)
> 16. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Chris on LBI)
> 17. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Mary Lou Troy)
> 18. Re: Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 (Todd Tavares)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:03:58 -0500
> From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <63821cdb.020a0220.9bd25.399c at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I don't know what definition of curve is, but there is none unless it's in the plane of the surface which is probably the result of the layup of the fibreglass.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> Date: 11/25/22 5:48 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Bob,I agree with Peter.? If there are any differences between the two rudders, they are not readily apparent in the photos.? Is there any measurable difference in parameters like maximum thickness, chord length from the leading edge to point of maximum thickness, etc?? Is there any asymetery in the curvature of the hydrofoil on each side? Both rudders appear to be straight.? What do you mean by ?curved??Roger PihlajaS/V Dynamic EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 5:26 PM, Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com> wrote:> > ?Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> > --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >> I'm the
> new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder (white) side >> by side. >> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder heads as well as the rudders are >> not similar at all. >> I was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a different mount >> and size from my '84. >> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a >> href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2%2FlYlSVnEpTnaNqcJ6KcohYH5Mp6bJicXQXi5es2bCg%3D&reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a> >> >> <a
>>> href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jb%2FqyXGnRhbl%2B96mT3YAC7z6k%2FGWx16Nu09%2Bv%2BBz3pU%3D&reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a> >> >> <a >> href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cd09861f000784a7cb42808dacf340f30%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638050119754738534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1gLAUSJD%2FLJHorQ5gSy79T%2B9EPYD3M5%2Bf6hkidjNvnY%3D&a
> mp;reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a> >> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:10:09 -0500
> From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <63821e4f.020a0220.9bd25.39b5 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Well, that's not good. Its bent! Don't know what would cause that, but I would think that it will affect performance through increased drag. Roger would know better than I.?Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22 7:17 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Peter.Forgive me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I pulled her at end of season.).Note:Tiller handle was placed, centerline.Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.I hope this is helpful.Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.Bob'84 Orion-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Peter NybergSent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PMTo: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.orgSubject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84
> Rhodes 22Bob,You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.--Peter> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing season.> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder > (white) side by side.> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder heads as well as the > rudders are not similar at all.> I was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a > different mount and size from my '84.> Comments, questions?> > Thanks all,> Bob> '84 ORION> > > > > <a> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnk
> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jAH1SgjXpqNVYA9DFo%2BOaW51Yru7cRlFl1y%2Fk5WFwDs%3D&reserved=0" > target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C91e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bhZbS3G14v5gWsMzgfXiKpbleK6dYLGM5Kfquowb1Kg%3D&reserved=0" > target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>> > <a> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C9
> 1e9c5d0f0f848ba822108dacf340ef6%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050119769164077%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vjTwF84WbZig1mFjUzfjKx6C0y9II68CqjER8ceXTfU%3D&reserved=0" > target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>> -------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rudder 4a.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 413162 bytesDesc: Rudder 4a.jpgURL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221126/a02587b5/attachment.jpg>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:13:30 -0500
> From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <63821f0f.020a0220.9bd25.39be at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> ?I don't think there's any difference between 82 and 84 or any other year rudders. Don't stigmatize '84 rudders!Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 11/25/22 9:31 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Thanks Roger.Sailing the last 10 yrs of ORION has been favored port tack, with a Catalina 22 rudder tiller.It will be nice next season to see how this '82 rudder tacks?Bob'84 ORION-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJASent: Friday, November 25, 2022 8:33 PMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22Hi Bob,OK, now I see what you mean.? Is that much misalignment noticeable under sail??? Is the tiller position different to go straight ahead on port tack vs starboard tack?Anyway, I don?t think there is any way to fix that rudder blade.? So, you did the right thing to replace it.Roger PihlajaS/V Dynami
> c EquilibriumSent from my iPhone> On Nov 25, 2022, at 7:17 PM, C. Robert Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:> > ?Thanks Peter.> Forgive me for not being able to capture the differences in shape with the first pics.> Here is the original pic that I posted. (Yes, that is snow on the ground when I pulled her at end of season.).> Note:> Tiller handle was placed, centerline.> Rudder head at top you can see bolts & nuts both sides.> Rudder is twisted to port, but curved to Starboard.> I hope this is helpful.> Not the pics yesterday show the "patches" of repair that were exposed by pressure washing off the red and black paint this summer.> Bob> '84 Orion> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of > Peter Nyberg> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:26 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22> > Bob,> > You seem happy with your new rudder, and so I'm happy for you
> as well, but those two rudders look pretty much the same to me.> > --Peter> >> On 2022-11-25, at 17:09:29 EST, C. Robert Lester wrote:>> >> I'm the new owner of a rudder off an '82 R22.>> Cannot wait to sail / race next sailing season.>> Took some pics of my '84 Rudder (curved, black/red) and '82 Rudder>> (white) side by side.>> The boats are only 2 years apart but the rudder heads as well as the >> rudders are not similar at all.>> I was going to buy the '82 stern rail as well but that is even a >> different mount and size from my '84.>> Comments, questions?>> >> Thanks all,>> Bob>> '84 ORION>> >> >> >> >> <a>> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2
> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5%2FvGDzW4lyDlY8bxd8C0SnVIagsqenG%2FNl74DWRsU24%3D&reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 1a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0001.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6%2FVPk0Yz0raPaBiMYAaNVBCs6BuuLQqJ4yaULWKtmH8%3D&reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 2a.jpg</a>>> >> <a>> href="https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221125%2F10ad9055%2Fattachment-0002.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b0
> 93648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=falg7p83u8J%2FJM8rsVG3WYzN2JmNaPn06t2a0pbB0bA%3D&reserved=0" >> target="_blank">Rudder 3a.jpg</a>>> > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed...> Name: Rudder 4a.jpg> Type: image/jpeg> Size: 413162 bytes> Desc: Rudder 4a.jpg> URL: <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221126%2Fa02587b5%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7C1dde6b93ce3d4e739c2d08dacf4e2bfa%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C638050231897795227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2FfotS3oaMoPJ49l2BJvvTqJIHg7PKELw63aG5D1ORAY%3D&reserved=0>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 11:37:24 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <c5674348-daad-0878-9b7e-814b9df175c8 at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been
> thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes
> that are closely related to this thread.
>
> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee
> helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge
> of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in
> Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I
> changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight,
> I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading
> edge of the rudder close to vertical.
>
> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the
> boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more
> easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees
> (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached
> is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while
> sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were
> about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so
> I consider this a great improvement.
>
> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had
> difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise
> with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to
> test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more
> responsive to a turn to windward.
>
> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a
> way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
>
> Chris
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:13:33 -0500
> From: <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <000201d9041e$513b6fc0$f3b24f40$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Chris,
> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
>
> Joe Dempsey
> S/V Respite
> Deltaville, VA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
>
> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.
>
> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.
>
> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.
>
> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.
>
> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
>
> Chris
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:55:21 +0000
> From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID:
> <CY8PR10MB6683D4528620D2943A4CEFFF80129 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Chris,
>
> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder. On my R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of the rudder head. On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop. However, there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry. The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical. If your rudder blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the rudder blade.
>
> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to increase weather helm. But, in my experience, the helm is not that sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly fully down. How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get rid of your lee helm?
>
> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking angle experiment? As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over. The asymmetry tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel increases. You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat, transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over. Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> ?Chris,
>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
>>
>> Joe Dempsey
>> S/V Respite
>> Deltaville, VA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
>>
>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.
>>
>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.
>>
>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.
>>
>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.
>>
>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
>> Type: image/png
>> Size: 460057 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> URL: <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:25:59 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <b482d3ee-6fbb-a590-0f60-6b2eccf7982f at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Joe,
> I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was
> experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.
> Chris
>
> On 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
>> Chris,
>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
>>
>> Joe Dempsey
>> S/V Respite
>> Deltaville, VA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
>>
>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.
>>
>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.
>>
>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.
>>
>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.
>>
>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
>> Type: image/png
>> Size: 460057 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> URL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 00:04:49 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <f0d18634-48d9-7382-498d-3774198dc6de at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Roger,
>
> I don't have a sense for how much I moved the rudder blade on my two
> trials. I was just hoping that some change would be noticeable. I'll pay
> more attention next season, and, next time I have a chance, I'll try to
> measure the difference between the "full down haul" position and the
> vertical position. I'll also look at the mechanical stop to get a sense
> for how a shim might be implemented. But for now, I think just using the
> tension between the down-haul and the up-haul will be best for
> experimenting so that I can convince myself that helm behavior really
> does change.
>
> On the two days that I experimented, I was intentionally keeping the
> heel angle minimal, attempting to keep it flat. The winds were around 10
> kts. I had the 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds. So the luff of
> the headsail was not shaped well due to the sail furled on the headstay.
>
> On many days, we find ourselves sailing in 18 to 20 kts. We tend to be
> timid about heeling too much and generally either fall off to a more
> comfortable (flatter) reach or reduce sail. I've never really
> experienced the transition to weather helm due to heeling - even when we
> are heeled past our comfort angle. We probably head up before heeling
> sufficiently to cause the hull shape to induce weather helm.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On 11/29/2022 2:55 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA wrote:
>> Chris,
>>
>> After reading your post, I went out and looked my boat?s rudder. On my R-22, the rudder blade pivots until it comes up against the underside of the rudder head. On my boat, the leading edge of the rudder blade makes a straight line with the leading edge of the rudder head when the rudder blade is all the way down against this positive mechanical stop. However, there are several manufacturing tolerances that can affect this geometry. The exact size and shape of the rudder head and rudder blade relative to the location of the rudder blade?s pivot are critical. If your rudder blade pivots too far forward, probably the easiest way to fix it will be to install a shim in between the bottom of the rudder head and the top of the rudder blade.
>>
>> I know from experience; that, pivoting the rudder blade up tends to increase weather helm. But, in my experience, the helm is not that sensitive to this adjustment, especially when the rudder blade is nearly fully down. How much did you have to move the rudder blade in order to get rid of your lee helm?
>>
>> By the way, what was your angle of heel when you were doing your tacking angle experiment? As you may know, the wetted surface area of the R-22 hull becomes very asymmetric as the hull heels over. The asymmetry tends to produce weather helm, becoming more pronounced as the angle of heel increases. You may find your boat has lee helm when sailed flat, transitioning to neutral helm, and then weather helm as you heel over. Before you modify your rudder, be certain you are not introducing heavy weather helm when the boat?s rail is in the water.
>>
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Chris,
>>> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?
>>>
>>> Joe Dempsey
>>> S/V Respite
>>> Deltaville, VA
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
>>>
>>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.
>>>
>>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.
>>>
>>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.
>>>
>>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.
>>>
>>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>> Name: IMG_4528.PNG
>>> Type: image/png
>>> Size: 460057 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> URL: <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20221129%2F2624e7f9%2Fattachment.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7C14e50c603e664400598208dad235763f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638053424313125675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sddmh3HKnm78KH1y%2BWXGh63%2Fqy8FvY4X1TDKohWJ1Ng%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:13:30 -0500
> From: jpd9668 <jpd9668 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <63875705.020a0220.7c723.105e at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Chris,I was very un-clear. The 95 degrees i was referring to was from 45+ degrees on either side of the wind. Was that your point of reference as well? I can get 45 degrees on Port tack? but have trouble getting that close on on starboard tack.Joe DempseySent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> Date: 11/29/22 11:26 PM (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22 Joe,I do have a roller furling jib. On this particular day, when I was experimenting, I had my 130 genoa unfurled to the upper shrouds.ChrisOn 11/29/2022 1:13 PM, jpd9668 at gmail.com wrote:> Chris,> Yours is much different than my experience. Until Stan instructed me how to use the downhaul on the rudder, I had severe lee helm. Once I pulled the downhaul tight my helm has been balanced ever since. If you're getting 95 deg. or less on point, that's pretty good. Do you have roller furling jib?>> Joe Dempsey> S/V Respite> Deltaville, VA>> -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Chris on LBI> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 11:37 AM> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re:
> [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22>> It is so interesting that to me that this topic just came up. I've been thinking about posting some late-season observations about my Rhodes that are closely related to this thread.>> After years of being frustrated with what I consider to be excessive lee helm, toward the end of this past season I noticed that the forward edge of my rudder was not vertical. It is much like the white rudder shown in Bob's photo. It kicks forward a little. In an attempt to rectify this, I changed how I was using the rudder down-haul. Rather than pull it tight, I eased off a bit allowing me to use the up-haul to make the leading edge of the rudder close to vertical.>> I only had the opportunity to try this twice before we had to take the boat out for the season, but in both outings, I was able to much more easily balance the helm and was able to tack very close to 90 degrees (something that eluded me on this boat since we purchased her). Attached
> is a diagram showing my track as I tested my ability to tack while sailing as close to the wind as I could. As you can see, the tacks were about 95 degrees. In the past I was generally closer to 110 degrees, so I consider this a great improvement.>> Also, prior to trying this adjustment with the rudder, we frequently had difficulty bringing the bow through the wind; we had to be very precise with our timing of releasing sheets. I did not have the opportunity to test the change in high wind conditions, but she seemed to be much more responsive to a turn to windward.>> I'll continue to experiment next year and spend more time working on a way to be sure that the leading edge of the rudder is truly vertical.>> Chris>> -------------- next part --------------> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...> Name: IMG_4528.PNG> Type: image/png> Size: 460057 bytes> Desc: not available> URL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221129/2624e7f9/attachment.png>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 09:51:19 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <6d06f513-d256-ca5d-0877-3e0065372fc7 at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Joe,
>
> I'm not sure which tack I do better on. I'll have to try to check next
> season. I'm afraid that it might be difficult for me to know for sure
> since I am always dealing with significant tidal currents that make
> precise measurements like that nearly impossible.
>
> Chris
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:11:30 -0500
> From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID:
> <CAPgvAEmLX7eK5u+y+CKO1chXfn-2HMT1WPSNuo40riptahb_fQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose has a
> ball spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open with
> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
>
> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the hose
> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
> valve on that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The
> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze
> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
>
> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any
> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
>
> Lee
> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
> Claytor Lake, VA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:30:19 -0800
> From: Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID: <E1p0Vat-0063j5-BP at s152.servername.online>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Lee,
>
> It never occurred to me to worry about this. I do empty my boat fuel tanks into a vehicle in the fall, and I do use a stabilizer for all my boat fuel. But, I don't have a convenient source for ethanol-free fuel, so I use the universal 90/10 mix.
>
> Long story short, I've never had a problem getting my outboard running in the spring.
>
> Peter Nyberg
> Coventry, CT
> s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)
>
>> On 2022-11-30, at 17:11:30 EST, Lee Kuhn wrote:
>>
>> What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose has a ball
>> spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open with some type
>> of tool because I could damage the valve.
>>
>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the hose into
>> the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the valve on
>> that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and held it up as high
>> as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The primer pumps gas in the
>> opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze it hard and slow the gas
>> will eventually drain into the tank.
>>
>> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
>> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any
>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
>>
>> Lee
>> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>> Claytor Lake, VA
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 22:34:37 +0000
> From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID:
> <CY8PR10MB668383056F98D5A9E6BA561880159 at CY8PR10MB6683.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Lee,
>
> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it. I always drain the gas line at the end of the season.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose has a
>> ball spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open with
>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
>>
>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the hose
>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened the
>> valve on that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The
>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you squeeze
>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
>>
>> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
>> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have any
>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
>>
>> Lee
>> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>> Claytor Lake, VA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:56:55 -0500 (EST)
> From: cjlowe at sssnet.com
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID:
> <55562.24.140.30.102.1669863415.squirrel at quickpop.sssnet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>> Lee,
>
> I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
>
>
> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lee,
>>
>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it. I always drain the gas
>> line at the end of the season.
>>
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ???What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose
>>> has a
>>> ball spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open
>>> with
>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
>>>
>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
>>> hose
>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
>>> the
>>> valve on that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The
>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
>>> squeeze
>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
>>>
>>> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
>>> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
>>> any
>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
>>>
>>> Lee
>>> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>>> Claytor Lake, VA
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 11:20:16 -0500
> From: Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Removing Gas from Fuel Line
> Message-ID:
> <CAPgvAEmEw1T0F=j6vm7_B41=v2qw5quKvjERcOc08r2D+zUFrA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I like Roger's idea to release the ball-spring with something that won't
> cause damage. If I place the tank on the cockpit seat I and pull the hose
> down tight I should be able to get most of the gas out, and on me.
>
> I like Peter's idea to do nothing. I'm really good at that. I'll probably
> use this method along with Jerry's idea to drink a beer.
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> Lee
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 10:02 PM <cjlowe at sssnet.com> wrote:
>
>>> Lee,
>>
>> I bought a replacement for my motor connection, and keep on board in
>> spare parts. End of season, I put the gas tank in the bed of the truck ,
>> put the spare connector on the end of the hose and stick it in a five
>> gallon gas can, pump the bulb a couple times and drink a beer.
>>
>>
>> Jerry Lowe SV Country Rhodes '86
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Lee,
>>>
>>> As long as you push on the ball check valve with something soft, like a
>>> piece of plastic, you are unlikely to damage it. I always drain the gas
>>> line at the end of the season.
>>>
>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Lee Kuhn <lvjkuhn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?What's the easiest way to remove gas from the fuel hose? The hose
>>>> has a
>>>> ball spring valve at both ends. I was told not to push the valve open
>>>> with
>>>> some type of tool because I could damage the valve.
>>>>
>>>> I disconnected the tank and put it in the lazarette and then reran the
>>>> hose
>>>> into the lazarette and reconnected the hose to the tank which opened
>>>> the
>>>> valve on that end. I then disconnected the hose from the outboard and
>>>> held it up as high as I could (gravity) and squeezed the primer. The
>>>> primer pumps gas in the opposite direction than I wanted but if you
>>>> squeeze
>>>> it hard and slow the gas will eventually drain into the tank.
>>>>
>>>> Seems like there must be a better way. The gas was ethanol-free with a
>>>> stabilizer. Should I just leave it in the hose and hope I won't have
>>>> any
>>>> problems starting the outboard in the Spring?
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>> 1999 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>>>> Claytor Lake, VA
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:34:31 -0500
> From: Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <9d4c38a9-5e00-a0a0-7528-73c2e3aa8422 at vt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't
> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this
> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a
> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is
> used to pull the rudder against the "stop".? In the second photo I have
> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much
> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward
> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the
> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side
> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
>
> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical
> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to
> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim
> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark
> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder
> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
>
> Chris
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:14:48 -0500
> From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID: <01193a8d-1d85-3485-05a1-959ac2b949a7 at atlanticbb.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> I have not been following this discussion closely and I am relying on
> memory here so take these statements with a grain of salt.
>
> When we purchased Fretless (recycled) in 1998 we had a number of
> discussions with Stan about rigging, helm and the rudder. He was quite
> clear that the proper position for the rudder underway was pulled
> forward of vertical so it was somewhat under the hull. Fred and I both
> remember the boat as being somewhat sluggish and less responsive if the
> rudder was not pulled far enough forward. Helm was also affected by the
> position of the rudder.
>
> I'll keep an eye out the results of your testing as I suppose it is
> indeed possible to have it too far forward if the fittings have changed
> but Stan set up our boat and we always pulled it as far forward as it
> would go.
>
> When doing your tests, make sure all the other variables are the same -
> for example the boat is very affected, usually positively, by weight in
> the bow. As our water tank was nearly centerline, we usually had it
> filled more than half way.
>
> All our best,
> Mary Lou (and Fred)
> ex Rhodes 22
> now Rosborough RF-246? Tara
> Rock Hall, MD
>
> On 12/4/2022 9:34 AM, Chris on LBI wrote:
>> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I
>> can't believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize
>> that this was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The
>> first gives a sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when
>> the down-haul is used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the
>> second photo I have placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make
>> more obvious how much past vertical the rudder is when it is against
>> the stop. The forward edge of the white plastic is parallel with the
>> forward edge of the rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop"
>> which is the forward side of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
>>
>> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the
>> mechanical variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow
>> the rudder to rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will
>> experiment with a shim to correct this. If this does not work out
>> easily, I will place a mark on the up-haul so that I know how far to
>> deploy it to keep the rudder from over-rotating, and then tension the
>> down-haul against it.
>>
>> Chris
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:38:22 -0500
> From: Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Curved Rudder | 84 Rhodes 22
> Message-ID:
> <CAB-twMN_dJb0-eHOQC9j3P_2TPx5a=EjrHrOfCMLguGGZLiq=A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Chris,
> Rather than trying to mess around with making and securing a shim, would it
> be easier to re-fabricate that entire forward vertical blocking between the
> rudderhead faces?
>
> Todd T
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 9:34 AM Chris on LBI <cknell at vt.edu> wrote:
>
>> I was able to take a look at the rudder yesterday. In hindsight, I can't
>> believe that it took me 5 full seasons of sailing to recognize that this
>> was a potential problem. Attached are three photos. The first gives a
>> sense of how far the rudder swings under the hull when the down-haul is
>> used to pull the rudder against the "stop". In the second photo I have
>> placed a white piece of plastic vertically to make more obvious how much
>> past vertical the rudder is when it is against the stop. The forward
>> edge of the white plastic is parallel with the forward edge of the
>> rudder head. The third photo shows the "stop" which is the forward side
>> of the rudder head (as Roger stated).
>>
>> As Roger predicted in his previous email, it appears that the mechanical
>> variations of this particular rudder and rudder head allow the rudder to
>> rotate too far forward. As he suggested, I will experiment with a shim
>> to correct this. If this does not work out easily, I will place a mark
>> on the up-haul so that I know how far to deploy it to keep the rudder
>> from over-rotating, and then tension the down-haul against it.
>>
>> Chris
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20221204/7aab683b/attachment.jpg
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 4477, Issue 1
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