[Rhodes22-list] (FIXED) Swing keel stuck.

[C. Robert Lester]

04 July 2022.
I pulled the CB back out of the keel, from underwater!!!!
We can sail this season!

I bent a 3/16" steel rod at the end with a 1" (90 degree angle).
Entered the keel, aft, when at the top, turned the rod 90 degrees, to latch on top of CB.
A flat bar was added to the 3/16 rod at keel and was used like I was pulling a nail from a board.
When the CB budged slightly, the rod was removed and the flat bar (short end) was used both port and starboard sides of the CB to persuade the CB to give way to gravity.
A few cycles of raising and lowering the pennant line proved successful.

Thinking back to when I pulled the boat out last season (DEC. 13 in NH), ice was forming on the lake.
Knowing the mechanics now of my '84 CB, I feel the pennant line and blocks in keel just got crushed by me motoring on to the trailer and allowing the trailer roller to do it's job and fold the CB up into the keel.

I doubt ORION will be removed before it snow's at least once again this season, but I will be trailering the boat out with CB raised!

The pics and knowledge shared from the group are irreplaceable.
I hope my sharing will help another R22 owner in the same situation.

Safe sailing,
Bob & Karen
ORION '84




-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of jpd9668
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2022 8:48 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.

Rob,Here is what I found when I opened up my CB trunk. The FG cap was cracked and the gasket was rotten. The outfit that repaired the cap and punched the holes in the new gasket re-configured the pennant line with only two blocks. I'm including g a diagram of the re-routed pennant.Joe DempseySV RespiteDeltaville,  VASent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: "C. Robert Lester" <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> Date: 7/2/22  10:48 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Thank you all for the input.The CB is jammed in retracted (up) position.All of what you mentioned is possible as the CB blocks were not engineered (I feel) to operate in freezing conditions (hauled out ORION on 13 DEC 2021) in New Hampshire due to my first bout with Covid.Today I purchased a 3/16 steel rod that I intend to modify to be come a CB retrieval tool.Since I was able to get a coat hanger up into the aft section of keel past the CB, this 3/16 rod I'm hoping will do the trick.The keel area around CB is "tight", however I hope that gravity and mechanics is on my side!Wish me luck and I thank you all for posting the experience and knowledge the Rhodes family has!Bob & KarenORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of gstewart.gm at gmail.comSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 10:09 PMTo: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Robert:As a word of caution, there are three small blocks in the well that give the line some purchase when lifting the centerboard and guide the line to the tube that leads to the cockpit. It is possible that one of the blocks has broken off or the line has become jammed in it. Also, pulling on the line might only serve to make the jam worse and a block that has broken free could be jammed between the keel and the housing. The only fix for this is to remove the cap. That is a PITA for sure but not particularly difficult.I gather that the center board is in the down position. Driving the boat onto the trailer if there is a broken block in the well might do further damage. It would be prudent to make sure the keel is free to swing before driving the boat onto the trailer. If it is jammed in the down position it might be necessary to have the boat lifted out of the water with the centerboard down and placed in a cradle while to make your repair. Just a thought.GrahamGraham StewartAgile, Rodes 22, 1976Kingston Ontario-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list On Behalf Of C. Robert LesterSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 11:04 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Ric, thank you sir.Super-helpful!Re-reading the knowledge shared on the subject found on:https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fdocument.html%3Fdocuments%2Fr22boardtrunk.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca7011f8798e7450a61d308da5d5730a1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924926752488638%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ScVlXOaYg%2Fy1YlCXnnpCFGvEd5yNYIKHHyV%2FApahS4w%3D&reserved=0 is an attempt to show all of you what I see when I'm diving under ORION.The Red line I drew is about 2' of pennant line that sank down from the keel while I was "wiggling" the CB underwater.There has to be a way I can reach into the keel (aft), grab and pull down the bottom of the CB!I just want to be able to sail race this season and put off any needed repairs till winter!BobORION '84-----Original Message-----From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Ric StottSent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:00 AMTo: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.Here is a photo of my ‘86 CB pendant with the cap off. There are two turning blocks on the trailing edge of the CB and two blocks bolted to the top of the CB cover. RicDadventure-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: image.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 29758 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20220702%2Fbfc1a5d3%2Fattachment.jpg&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca7011f8798e7450a61d308da5d5730a1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924926752488638%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=OUas6HubUje6mKRs4UQlmSDrFlMkMaCy1AangwCHqDc%3D&reserved=0>-------------- next part --------------Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:06 PM, C. Robert Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:> > 01 JULY second attempt to free my rudder from underwater.> Now I have about 2" loop of penant line hanging out the starboard of the CB under water.> No headway made pulling the line aboard, while I do the crowbar-jiggle under water.> I'm wondering on my '84R22, where is the penant line attached to my CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> Where is the pivot point of the CB?> Is it the same place as on my rudder?> I know my boat was made by folks other-than-General in 1984, but Stan can you share the engineering design of my fixed Keel, CB '84R22?> Thanks in advance,> Bob & Karen> "84 ORION> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 7:19 PM> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Thanks Ric!> > I should add that the CB is stuck because I didn't raise the penant line when the trailer roller, tucked the CB into the keel when taking the boat out of the water last season.> The penant line is sandwiched I feel in between the keel & CB.> > The CB on my boat is the old style and the same shape as the rudder.> > It is nice to hear someone else "dives" under to fix the issue.> > Bob> '84 ORION> > From: ric at stottarchitecture.com> Sent: June 28, 2022 2:38 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Reply-to: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > I moor my boat in shallow water.> During normal low tide the keel is off the bottom by a few inches.> When the tide is below normal, sometimes the keel rests on the sandy/small stone bottom.> Sometimes this results in a small stone getting wedged between the CB and the trunk.> The only way to clear it is to dive under the boat.  I have a long shank screw driver that I use to scrape the stone out.> I imagine marine growth could do the same thing and be remedied the  same way.> If your CB pendant is loose, be sure to be out of the way when the CB swings down.> I often set the pedant to about half way, then make the dive.> For the old style  center board ( don't know which you have) the small turning blocks could be bent or jammed also.> The blocks are only available in the UK.> Good Luck!> Ric> Dadventure> > Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP> ric at stottarchitecture.com> O -631-283-1777> C- 516-965-3164> > > >> On Jun 27, 2022, at 8:38 PM, C. Robert Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu> wrote:>> >> 26 June 2022 - An attempt to "free" my CB from below and while underwater.>> >> While anchored in 4' - 6' of beautiful, NH, Lake water...I dove underneath the boat to take a look.>> I attempted to wiggle a wire above the CB to "yank" it down out of the Keel. (this failed).>> >> I was able to fit the handle of an adjustable wrench up in between the CB and Keel. This allowed me to jiggle and the space while my wife pulled the penant from topside in the boat.>> 1.5 hrs later, the jiggling allowed a loop of penant rope to drop out of the keel, starboard side.>> Called it a night and motored to slip.>> >> I intend to return for a 2nd try, bringing with me a flat bar and crowbar for more leverage.>> Even providing a little bit more wiggle room must allow the person topside to pull more penant rope out to day light, right?>> >> Bob in Sunapee,>> '84 ORION>> >> >> -----Original Message----->> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of jpd9668>> Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 8:14 AM>> To: John Carlson <john_carlson at mac.com>; The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>; Melvyn Rothbard <melrothbard at yahoo.com>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.>> >> Although I did not have CB problems,  the trunk was leaking and I had to replace CB gasket. I did this while on the trailer. CB is accessable once cap and gasket are removed. I remember seeing a post on replacing the CB pivot pin. Removing the CB can certainly be done but I'll bet it's a pain in the ass. TIP: When raising CB, haul to top and back off about 1-2 inches before cleating it off.Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone>> -------- Original message --------From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Date: 6/8/22  11:40 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Melvyn Rothbard <melrothbard at yahoo.com> Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck. Okay, mine was on the trailer. Long story short: I took the centerboard cap/lid/hood off to gain more direct access. However, you cannot do this on the water, since -- as I understand it -- the top of the centerboard trunk is below the waterline.--John CarlsonS/V Lillipelli (2004/2012)Lake Waco, Texas> On Jun 8, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Melvyn Rothbard <melrothbard at yahoo.com> wrote:> > Looks familiar to me.  My board froze at the end of last year and I have not been able to free it up> Mel Rothbard> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.onelink.me%2F107872968%3Fpid%3DInProduct%26c%3DGlobal_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers%26af_wl%3Dym%26af_sub1%3DInternal%26af_sub2%3DGlobal_YGrowth%26af_sub3%3DEmailSignature&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca7011f8798e7450a61d308da5d5730a1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924926752488638%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BZhIhZR9SuuL6kXLYUd3T8oYoqFtPLE80XwT%2BOPdhDU%3D&reserved=0>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 10:15 PM, C. Robert Lester> <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu <mailto:C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu>> wrote:> In the water at the slip.> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device> From: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org <mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Sent: June 8, 2022 9:16 PM> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org <mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Reply-to: john_carlson at mac.com <mailto:john_carlson at mac.com>; rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org <mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> > Wow, that looks so different from my boat! I have had the "stuck" problem before and am actually writing up a description of the larger project. But, let me ask, is the boat in the water or on the trailer?> > --> John Carlson> Lillipelli (2004/2012)> > > On Jun 8, 2022, at 7:05 PM, C. Robert Lester <C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu <mailto:C.Robert.Lester at dartmouth.edu>> wrote:> >> > Frogive me all, hopefully "pic" makes it through this time!> >> > Bob> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org <mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> <mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org <mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>>> On Behalf Of C. Robert Lester> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 7:36 PM> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org <mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> <mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org <mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Swing keel stuck.> >> > '84 R22 with centerboard stuck on penant rope.> > Nothing fits down penant tube (don't have golf club as suggested).> > But does this look familiar to anyone?> >> > Thanks, Bob> >> > Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device>> -------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdfType: application/pdfSize: 84024 bytesDesc: Rhodes 22 Pennant Line (ORION).pdfURL: <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhodes22.org%2Fpipermail%2Frhodes22-list%2Fattachments%2F20220702%2Fea4fdce0%2Fattachment.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cc.robert.lester%40dartmouth.edu%7Ca7011f8798e7450a61d308da5d5730a1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637924926752488638%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VAMns3s7SzBnFAhR73von3IfKhpjijzTx9rjm74jDWI%3D&reserved=0>
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