[Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb

[Kenwood _]

I just got a bf100 for my boat! Glad to see that somebody else has a
similar engine. Being 4 stroke (and not prone to seizing while idle) plus
the 60w rectifier sold me!

On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 5:14 PM PBR <pbryanriley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Roger,
> Success.  It seems it was a stuck float that started me down this path.
>  Did not find anything clogging it but cleaning it up appeared to fix
> things.  Got it running and the smoking quickly cleared up too.  Now the
> only issue is after working perfectly last trip when I was compression
> testing, this time the electric start is dead.  Appears to be a stuck relay
> which is a part not available anywhere.  Starts easy enough by pulling
> the rope for now.  I'll check with a honda stealer for that part I guess.
> Thanks for your wise advice.
> Patrick
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 11:29 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Patrick,
> >
> > I’m sorry, I tend to skip obvious steps.  Yes,  you have to remove the
> > throttle linkage and carb to get to the float bowl.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > 1978. Sanford, MI
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jun 12, 2024, at 11:04 AM, PBR <pbryanriley at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Roger,
> > > Can't access the float bowl screws without removing the carb but.It
> looks
> > > like only two bolts to pull the carb off.    So i will attempt to clean
> > up
> > > and unstick the needle next time I get back to boats in a couple of
> > weeks.
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 6:53 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Patrick,
> > >>
> > >> Assuming the problem is a sticky needle &/or float, you can clean it
> out
> > >> with minimal disassembly:
> > >>
> > >> Remove the float bowl and fuel line from the carburetor.  Gently move
> > the
> > >> float.  It should move several mm with little resistance.
> > >>
> > >> Spray carb cleaner into the fuel line inlet.  You should see carb
> > cleaner
> > >> dripping out of the needle valve.
> > >>
> > >> Remove the float and needle valve.  Be careful not to lose the needle
> > >> valve seat seal.  Inspect the male part of the needle valve.  Clean
> off
> > any
> > >> residual deposits with carb cleaner.  Spray carb cleaner up into the
> > needle
> > >> valve seat passage.  You should see carb cleaner dripping out of the
> > fuel
> > >> line inlet.
> > >>
> > >> Reassemble the carb and reconnect the fuel line.
> > >>
> > >> Since you suspect the oil is fuel diluted, I recommend changing the
> oil.
> > >>
> > >> A compression test of 110 psi isn’t great.  But, the engine should
> still
> > >> run.
> > >>
> > >> Roger Pihlaja
> > >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >> 1978. Sanford, MI
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>>> On Jun 6, 2024, at 1:06 PM, PBR <pbryanriley at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Roger, et. al.,
> > >>>
> > >>> Finally had a chance to troubleshoot this issue that began as oil
> > >> dripping
> > >>> from carb intake and smoking some.
> > >>> I can't find any sign of a breather that might be clogged, everything
> > >> under
> > >>> the hood is pristine clean.
> > >>>
> > >>> Oil was definitely overfilled.  I drained out about a pint and it
> still
> > >>> shows nearly full.  Golden color difficult to see but by rolling the
> > >>> dipstick on a paper towel you could see the top level.  What I
> drained
> > >> out
> > >>> also seems to have a viscosity lower than I would expect of pure oil
> > and
> > >> my
> > >>> wife said it smelled of gas.  So, stuck float is or was a most likely
> > >>> culprit.
> > >>>
> > >>> I checked compression and got 110 psi on both cylinders. squirted in
> > some
> > >>> oil but could not get it to change.  Seems low but could be my 40
> year
> > >> old
> > >>> tester  and me trying to get a good push seal.  So, my rings are
> > probably
> > >>> not an issue.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, what next with a sticky float.? I don't want to take the carb
> apart
> > >>> with my skill level and lack of a clean shop to work in.  It may be
> > fixed
> > >>> already and I was just seeing the after effect of overfilled oil.  I
> > have
> > >>> the motor on a dolly so I can tip it on it side, tap on stuff etc..
> I
> > >>> might just try to see if it runs OK before putting in clean oil in
> case
> > >> it
> > >>> is still stuck.
> > >>>
> > >>> Patrick
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:48 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi Patrick,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I would check the oil level 1st.  On a 2 cylinder engine, I would
> pull
> > >>>> both spark plugs when checking the compression.  That way, the
> starter
> > >> will
> > >>>> spin the engine faster and both cylinders will see the same test
> RPM.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>> 1978  Sanford, MI
> > >>>> ________________________________
> > >>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf
> of
> > >> PBR
> > >>>> <pbryanriley at gmail.com>
> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 8:36 AM
> > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks Roger,
> > >>>> I will try all of these suggestions.  I'll keep you all posted but
> it
> > >> might
> > >>>> take me a while to find the time.  I do use just ethanol free gas
> and
> > my
> > >>>> modus operandi has been to run the gas out, but I admit during this
> > time
> > >>>> when I have been just starting and running the motor periodically I
> > >>>> probably have skipped that a few times.  I have a compression tester
> > >> with
> > >>>> the rubber insert.  Came with a tune up kit I picked  up about 35
> > years
> > >> ago
> > >>>> so probably american made and still working...  To do this I am
> > >> guessing I
> > >>>> would hook up the battery and crank the motor while holding the
> tester
> > >> in
> > >>>> place?  both plugs out or one in one out. (I seem to remember with 8
> > cyl
> > >>>> engines my pals just did one at a time and started the engine).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I do have an alternate motor ready to go on a Rhodes so if I get
> some
> > >>>> sailing opportunities I have no excuses not to get out there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Patrick
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:24 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <
> roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi Patrick,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I’ve been thinking more about your issue with engine oil dripping
> out
> > >> the
> > >>>>> carburetor.  Check the engine oil level with the dip stick.  If the
> > oil
> > >>>>> level is high; then, you may have an issue with the float level in
> > the
> > >>>>> carburetor.  High fuel level in the float bowl would allow fuel to
> > >>>>> contaminate the engine oil.  Eventually, the diluted engine oil
> level
> > >>>> would
> > >>>>> get high enough that oil would start backing up into the
> carburetor,
> > >>>>> resulting in your observed carb oil drip.  A sticky float would be
> > >>>>> consistent with an engine that sits a lot between runs.  I always
> > >>>>> disconnect the fuel line and run the engine until the carburetor
> runs
> > >>>> dry.
> > >>>>> I think this explanation is more likely than stuck or worn piston
> > >> rings.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>>> 1978  Sanford, MI
> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Apr 2, 2024, at 4:02 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA <Roger_Pihlaja at msn.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi Patrick,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have a Honda BF9.9AXSA outboard motor, model year 2000.  I use
> it
> > on
> > >>>>> my Walker Bay RIB.  If you have a compression tester, you can
> quickly
> > >>>>> determine the status of your piston rings and valves.  The factory
> > >>>>> compression spec is 156 +/- 14 psi when the engine is cold.  If
> your
> > >>>>> compression meets spec in both cylinders; then, your piston rings
> and
> > >>>>> valves are OK.  If the compression values are low; then, squirt
> some
> > >>>> engine
> > >>>>> oil into the spark plug hole on each cylinder and retest the
> > >> compression.
> > >>>>> If the compression improves; then, you have worn/stuck piston
> rings.
> > >> If
> > >>>>> the compression does not improve; then, you have valve leakage
> > issues.
> > >>>>> The only way to fix valve leakage is with a cylinder head rebuild.
> > >>>>> However, since your engine still runs, if your problem is stuck
> > piston
> > >>>>> rings; then, you may be able to free them up.  Drain out about ½
> the
> > >>>>> crankcase oil and refill with a product like Slick 50 Synthetic Oil
> > >>>>> Treatment.  Squirt some Slick 50 into each spark plug hole, gently
> > >> crank
> > >>>> it
> > >>>>> over a few revs, and then let it sit overnight.  The next day,
> start
> > >> the
> > >>>>> engine, and let it run at idle for 15-20 minutes.  Then, shut it
> down
> > >> and
> > >>>>> change the oil.  Hopefully, this will free up the piston rings.  I
> > >> don't
> > >>>>> have much faith in any fuel additive's ability to free up stuck
> > piston
> > >>>>> rings.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> My M/Y 2000 engine has a crankcase vent that dumps directly to the
> > >>>>> atmosphere via a rubber hose on the port side.  The crankcase
> > breather
> > >>>>> cover sits just in front of the timing belt sprocket on the top of
> > the
> > >>>>> engine.  I've never had my breather cover off because I've never
> > needed
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>> get in there.  However, given that it vents to the atmosphere, I
> > doubt
> > >>>>> there is any sort of PCV valve that might get stuck or clogged.
> > >>>> However, I
> > >>>>> suppose it's possible the vent port itself &/or the hose might be
> > >>>> clogged.
> > >>>>> So, it might be worth a look underneath the breather cover just to
> > >> verify
> > >>>>> that the plumbing is free and clear.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Try these suggestions and let's see what happens.  Good Luck!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>>>> 1978  Sanford, MI
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on
> behalf
> > of
> > >>>>> Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>
> > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 2:12 PM
> > >>>>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Patrick,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I think that if you have a problem with "stuck" piston rings, you
> > >> would
> > >>>>> know it. I would suspect that there would be a loud noise and the
> > >> engine
> > >>>>> probably would not run at low speeds as it seized up.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> My guess is more a problem with the crankcase ventilation system.
> > >>>>> Usually there is a PCV style one-way valve that sucks oil fumes out
> > of
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>> crankcase, burning them by introducing into the air intake. Check
> the
> > >> air
> > >>>>> filter which is usually part of the recirculation circuit as it can
> > >>>> become
> > >>>>> saturated with oil.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Is the engine consuming oil? Have you checked the oil level using
> > the
> > >>>>> dipstick? The smoke and excess oil can be the result of worn (not
> > >> stuck)
> > >>>>> piston rings or valves that are allowing the oil to pass into the
> > >>>>> combustion path.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Mike
> > >>>>>> s/v Wind Lass ('91)
> > >>>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
> > >>>>>> I’d rather be sailing :~)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > >>>>> PBR
> > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 1:52 PM
> > >>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > >>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hello all.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have a Honda 9.9 2 cyl.  that has been mostly sitting for a few
> > >>>> years.
> > >>>>>> It sat on the boat in Kitty Hawk (humid environment) for one
> winter
> > >>>>> untouched (2018).  Since then I have not used it on the water but
> > >> always
> > >>>>> expecting that I might anytime soon I did not winterize but
> dutifully
> > >>>>> started it every couple of months throughout the winters and ran
> it a
> > >> bit
> > >>>>> with the water hose.  Always started easy and ran good.  Some smoke
> > at
> > >>>>> first but not enough to concern me.  This time as I was about to
> put
> > >> the
> > >>>>> thing in to use I put a bucket (trash can ) around it and ran it
> > again.
> > >>>>>> Started easy , runs good, again some smoking, enough to get me
> > curious
> > >>>>> but not constant at all speeds.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Looking under the cowling I see oil dripping from the carb intake
> > >>>> (clean
> > >>>>> golden oil).  Still running fine.I am hoping there may be a *vent
> > clog*
> > >>>> or
> > >>>>> something rather than just frozen rings.  Any thoughts?  *Stuck
> > >> valve?* (
> > >>>>> but runs pretty good)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This 1999 motor has VERY VERY low miles and looks brand new so I
> > hate
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>> scrap it but given the date of manufacture the value is probably
> less
> > >>>> than
> > >>>>> a marine repair will charge me to take a look.  Hoping for a
> miracle
> > >>>>> solution.  Twice I have removed mud dauber bee nests from under the
> > >>>> cowling
> > >>>>> so maybe I can find something suspicous.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> The trash can I ran it in did have some residual oil clinging to
> the
> > >>>>> sides but I don't know how much might be normal.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> My plan next trip in a couple of weeks is to look for clogs and
> try
> > >>>>> running again maybe with a high dose of sea foam or something.  Not
> > >> sure
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>> any miracle sauce that might help stuck rings.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Patrick
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> >
>