[Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb

[cp.boyce]

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> Date: 6/29/24  15:14  (GMT-08:00) To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb Patrick,I’m glad I was able to help.Roger Pihlaja S/V Dynamic Equilibrium 1978  Sanford, MISent from my iPhone> On Jun 29, 2024, at 5:14 PM, PBR <pbryanriley at gmail.com> wrote:> > Roger,> Success.  It seems it was a stuck float that started me down this path.> Did not find anything clogging it but cleaning it up appeared to fix> things.  Got it running and the smoking quickly cleared up too.  Now the> only issue is after working perfectly last trip when I was compression> testing, this time the electric start is dead.  Appears to be a stuck relay> which is a part not available anywhere.  Starts easy enough by pulling> the rope for now.  I'll check with a honda stealer for that part I guess.> Thanks for your wise advice.> Patrick> > >> On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 11:29 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>>> wrote:>> >> Patrick,>> >> I’m sorry, I tend to skip obvious steps.  Yes,  you have to remove the>> throttle linkage and carb to get to the float bowl.>> >> Roger Pihlaja>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium>> 1978. Sanford, MI>> Sent from my iPhone>> >>>> On Jun 12, 2024, at 11:04 AM, PBR <pbryanriley at gmail.com> wrote:>>> >>> Thanks Roger,>>> Can't access the float bowl screws without removing the carb but.It looks>>> like only two bolts to pull the carb off.    So i will attempt to clean>> up>>> and unstick the needle next time I get back to boats in a couple of>> weeks.>>> Patrick>>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 6, 2024 at 6:53 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>>> wrote:>>>> >>>> Patrick,>>>> >>>> Assuming the problem is a sticky needle &/or float, you can clean it out>>>> with minimal disassembly:>>>> >>>> Remove the float bowl and fuel line from the carburetor.  Gently move>> the>>>> float.  It should move several mm with little resistance.>>>> >>>> Spray carb cleaner into the fuel line inlet.  You should see carb>> cleaner>>>> dripping out of the needle valve.>>>> >>>> Remove the float and needle valve.  Be careful not to lose the needle>>>> valve seat seal.  Inspect the male part of the needle valve.  Clean off>> any>>>> residual deposits with carb cleaner.  Spray carb cleaner up into the>> needle>>>> valve seat passage.  You should see carb cleaner dripping out of the>> fuel>>>> line inlet.>>>> >>>> Reassemble the carb and reconnect the fuel line.>>>> >>>> Since you suspect the oil is fuel diluted, I recommend changing the oil.>>>> >>>> A compression test of 110 psi isn’t great.  But, the engine should still>>>> run.>>>> >>>> Roger Pihlaja>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium>>>> 1978. Sanford, MI>>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 6, 2024, at 1:06 PM, PBR <pbryanriley at gmail.com> wrote:>>>>> >>>>> Roger, et. al.,>>>>> >>>>> Finally had a chance to troubleshoot this issue that began as oil>>>> dripping>>>>> from carb intake and smoking some.>>>>> I can't find any sign of a breather that might be clogged, everything>>>> under>>>>> the hood is pristine clean.>>>>> >>>>> Oil was definitely overfilled.  I drained out about a pint and it still>>>>> shows nearly full.  Golden color difficult to see but by rolling the>>>>> dipstick on a paper towel you could see the top level.  What I drained>>>> out>>>>> also seems to have a viscosity lower than I would expect of pure oil>> and>>>> my>>>>> wife said it smelled of gas.  So, stuck float is or was a most likely>>>>> culprit.>>>>> >>>>> I checked compression and got 110 psi on both cylinders. squirted in>> some>>>>> oil but could not get it to change.  Seems low but could be my 40 year>>>> old>>>>> tester  and me trying to get a good push seal.  So, my rings are>> probably>>>>> not an issue.>>>>> >>>>> So, what next with a sticky float.? I don't want to take the carb apart>>>>> with my skill level and lack of a clean shop to work in.  It may be>> fixed>>>>> already and I was just seeing the after effect of overfilled oil.  I>> have>>>>> the motor on a dolly so I can tip it on it side, tap on stuff etc..  I>>>>> might just try to see if it runs OK before putting in clean oil in case>>>> it>>>>> is still stuck.>>>>> >>>>> Patrick>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:48 AM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>>>>> wrote:>>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Patrick,>>>>>> >>>>>> I would check the oil level 1st.  On a 2 cylinder engine, I would pull>>>>>> both spark plugs when checking the compression.  That way, the starter>>>> will>>>>>> spin the engine faster and both cylinders will see the same test RPM.>>>>>> >>>>>> Roger Pihlaja>>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium>>>>>> 1978  Sanford, MI>>>>>> ________________________________>>>>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf of>>>> PBR>>>>>> <pbryanriley at gmail.com>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 8:36 AM>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb>>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Roger,>>>>>> I will try all of these suggestions.  I'll keep you all posted but it>>>> might>>>>>> take me a while to find the time.  I do use just ethanol free gas and>> my>>>>>> modus operandi has been to run the gas out, but I admit during this>> time>>>>>> when I have been just starting and running the motor periodically I>>>>>> probably have skipped that a few times.  I have a compression tester>>>> with>>>>>> the rubber insert.  Came with a tune up kit I picked  up about 35>> years>>>> ago>>>>>> so probably american made and still working...  To do this I am>>>> guessing I>>>>>> would hook up the battery and crank the motor while holding the tester>>>> in>>>>>> place?  both plugs out or one in one out. (I seem to remember with 8>> cyl>>>>>> engines my pals just did one at a time and started the engine).>>>>>> >>>>>> I do have an alternate motor ready to go on a Rhodes so if I get some>>>>>> sailing opportunities I have no excuses not to get out there.>>>>>> >>>>>> Patrick>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:24 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Patrick,>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’ve been thinking more about your issue with engine oil dripping out>>>> the>>>>>>> carburetor.  Check the engine oil level with the dip stick.  If the>> oil>>>>>>> level is high; then, you may have an issue with the float level in>> the>>>>>>> carburetor.  High fuel level in the float bowl would allow fuel to>>>>>>> contaminate the engine oil.  Eventually, the diluted engine oil level>>>>>> would>>>>>>> get high enough that oil would start backing up into the carburetor,>>>>>>> resulting in your observed carb oil drip.  A sticky float would be>>>>>>> consistent with an engine that sits a lot between runs.  I always>>>>>>> disconnect the fuel line and run the engine until the carburetor runs>>>>>> dry.>>>>>>> I think this explanation is more likely than stuck or worn piston>>>> rings.>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Roger Pihlaja>>>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium>>>>>>> 1978  Sanford, MI>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 2, 2024, at 4:02 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA <Roger_Pihlaja at msn.com>>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Patrick,>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a Honda BF9.9AXSA outboard motor, model year 2000.  I use it>> on>>>>>>> my Walker Bay RIB.  If you have a compression tester, you can quickly>>>>>>> determine the status of your piston rings and valves.  The factory>>>>>>> compression spec is 156 +/- 14 psi when the engine is cold.  If your>>>>>>> compression meets spec in both cylinders; then, your piston rings and>>>>>>> valves are OK.  If the compression values are low; then, squirt some>>>>>> engine>>>>>>> oil into the spark plug hole on each cylinder and retest the>>>> compression.>>>>>>> If the compression improves; then, you have worn/stuck piston rings.>>>> If>>>>>>> the compression does not improve; then, you have valve leakage>> issues.>>>>>>> The only way to fix valve leakage is with a cylinder head rebuild.>>>>>>> However, since your engine still runs, if your problem is stuck>> piston>>>>>>> rings; then, you may be able to free them up.  Drain out about ½ the>>>>>>> crankcase oil and refill with a product like Slick 50 Synthetic Oil>>>>>>> Treatment.  Squirt some Slick 50 into each spark plug hole, gently>>>> crank>>>>>> it>>>>>>> over a few revs, and then let it sit overnight.  The next day, start>>>> the>>>>>>> engine, and let it run at idle for 15-20 minutes.  Then, shut it down>>>> and>>>>>>> change the oil.  Hopefully, this will free up the piston rings.  I>>>> don't>>>>>>> have much faith in any fuel additive's ability to free up stuck>> piston>>>>>>> rings.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My M/Y 2000 engine has a crankcase vent that dumps directly to the>>>>>>> atmosphere via a rubber hose on the port side.  The crankcase>> breather>>>>>>> cover sits just in front of the timing belt sprocket on the top of>> the>>>>>>> engine.  I've never had my breather cover off because I've never>> needed>>>>>> to>>>>>>> get in there.  However, given that it vents to the atmosphere, I>> doubt>>>>>>> there is any sort of PCV valve that might get stuck or clogged.>>>>>> However, I>>>>>>> suppose it's possible the vent port itself &/or the hose might be>>>>>> clogged.>>>>>>> So, it might be worth a look underneath the breather cover just to>>>> verify>>>>>>> that the plumbing is free and clear.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try these suggestions and let's see what happens.  Good Luck!>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roger Pihlaja>>>>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium>>>>>>>> 1978  Sanford, MI>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________>>>>>>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> on behalf>> of>>>>>>> Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 2:12 PM>>>>>>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Patrick,>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that if you have a problem with "stuck" piston rings, you>>>> would>>>>>>> know it. I would suspect that there would be a loud noise and the>>>> engine>>>>>>> probably would not run at low speeds as it seized up.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My guess is more a problem with the crankcase ventilation system.>>>>>>> Usually there is a PCV style one-way valve that sucks oil fumes out>> of>>>>>> the>>>>>>> crankcase, burning them by introducing into the air intake. Check the>>>> air>>>>>>> filter which is usually part of the recirculation circuit as it can>>>>>> become>>>>>>> saturated with oil.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is the engine consuming oil? Have you checked the oil level using>> the>>>>>>> dipstick? The smoke and excess oil can be the result of worn (not>>>> stuck)>>>>>>> piston rings or valves that are allowing the oil to pass into the>>>>>>> combustion path.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike>>>>>>>> s/v Wind Lass ('91)>>>>>>>> Nissequogue River, NY>>>>>>>> I’d rather be sailing :~)>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>>>> From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf>> Of>>>>>>> PBR>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 1:52 PM>>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Honda BF9.9 Oil from carb>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello all.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have a Honda 9.9 2 cyl.  that has been mostly sitting for a few>>>>>> years.>>>>>>>> It sat on the boat in Kitty Hawk (humid environment) for one winter>>>>>>> untouched (2018).  Since then I have not used it on the water but>>>> always>>>>>>> expecting that I might anytime soon I did not winterize but dutifully>>>>>>> started it every couple of months throughout the winters and ran it a>>>> bit>>>>>>> with the water hose.  Always started easy and ran good.  Some smoke>> at>>>>>>> first but not enough to concern me.  This time as I was about to put>>>> the>>>>>>> thing in to use I put a bucket (trash can ) around it and ran it>> again.>>>>>>>> Started easy , runs good, again some smoking, enough to get me>> curious>>>>>>> but not constant at all speeds.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Looking under the cowling I see oil dripping from the carb intake>>>>>> (clean>>>>>>> golden oil).  Still running fine.I am hoping there may be a *vent>> clog*>>>>>> or>>>>>>> something rather than just frozen rings.  Any thoughts?  *Stuck>>>> valve?* (>>>>>>> but runs pretty good)>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This 1999 motor has VERY VERY low miles and looks brand new so I>> hate>>>>>> to>>>>>>> scrap it but given the date of manufacture the value is probably less>>>>>> than>>>>>>> a marine repair will charge me to take a look.  Hoping for a miracle>>>>>>> solution.  Twice I have removed mud dauber bee nests from under the>>>>>> cowling>>>>>>> so maybe I can find something suspicous.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The trash can I ran it in did have some residual oil clinging to the>>>>>>> sides but I don't know how much might be normal.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My plan next trip in a couple of weeks is to look for clogs and try>>>>>>> running again maybe with a high dose of sea foam or something.  Not>>>> sure>>>>>> of>>>>>>> any miracle sauce that might help stuck rings.>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Patrick>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>