[Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating

David Rasberry rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:24:13 -0400


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MessageRoger,

IACC is an open development class. So the syndicates can pretty much do
anything they want within the limits of the class rule. There have been some
interesting innovations in rigging as well as hull and keel design for these
boats. There does seem to be a trend toward loose footed sails with the new
materials though. Seems like you would get a more consistant foil shape at
the lower edge of the sail for better laminar flow at the expense of losing
the end plate effect of the boom. The tradeoffs are probably pretty subtle.

Razz
  -----Original Message-----
  From: rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
  Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:09 AM
  To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating


  Michael & Razz,

  The mainsail on Tele 2 in the enclosed picture is definitely loose footed.
However, the mainsail on Stars & Stripes in the picture in the September,
2002 issue of SAIL magazine is definitely not loose footed.  This is
probably an evolving area of design & the issue is not settled in the IACC.
I'm surprised the IACC sailmakers would even consider loose footed
mainsails, but your picture clearly shows they are.  As I said in my
previous post, I stand corrected on loose footed mainsails.

  Roger Pihlaja
  S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Michael Meltzer
    To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
    Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:21 PM
    Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating


    http://www.tree.net.nz//dscgi/ds.py/Get/File-3889
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: David Rasberry
      To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
      Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:57 AM
      Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating


      Since they dropped the twelve meters.
      Check the pix

      Razz
        -----Original Message-----
        From: rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
        Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 5:57 AM
        To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
        Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating


        Since when?
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: David Rasberry
          To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
          Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 2:15 AM
          Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating


          IACC class (America's Cup) boats have loose footed mains.

          Razz
            -----Original Message-----
            From: rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
            Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:01 PM
            To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
            Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating


            Richard,

            Bullshit!  To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a single
performance oriented sailboat racing class that prefers to use loose footed
mainsails.  I don't know why Doyle has made this marketing decision.
Fortunately, there are plenty of other choices of sailmakers & I would run,
not walk, away from this idiot at Doyle.

            Roger Pihlaja
            S/V Dynamic eQuilibrium
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: R.G. Smith
              To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
              Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 2:46 PM
              Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending & PHRF Rating


              The mainsail on my boat is pretty much shot also.  My boat is
a re-mfg 1990 and I insisted on the old style spars (non IMF) and the sail I
have is all that Stan had.  I got in touch with Doyle regarding a new main
the sail they suggust has 2 full length battens at the head and 2 partial
battens towards the foot.

              The sail they quoted was also loose footed!  When I expressed
surprise I was told that (Doyle) was no longer building mains with bolt
ropes along the foot.  There contention is that a loose footed sail set's
better and last longer.

              Richard Smith



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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D920380712-26082002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Roger,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D920380712-26082002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D920380712-26082002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>IACC=20
is an open development class. So the&nbsp;syndicates can pretty much do =
anything=20
they want within the limits of the class rule. There have been some =
interesting=20
innovations in rigging as well as hull and keel design for these boats. =
There=20
does seem to be a trend toward loose footed sails with the new materials =
though.=20
Seems like you would get a more consistant foil shape at the lower edge =
of the=20
sail for better laminar flow at the expense of losing the end plate =
effect of=20
the boom.&nbsp;The tradeoffs are probably pretty =
subtle.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D920380712-26082002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D920380712-26082002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Razz</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org=20
  [mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Roger=20
  Pihlaja<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 26, 2002 6:09 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast =
Bending=20
  &amp; PHRF Rating<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael &amp; Razz,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The mainsail on Tele 2 in&nbsp;the=20
  enclosed&nbsp;picture is definitely loose footed.&nbsp; However, the =
mainsail=20
  on Stars &amp; Stripes in the picture in the September, 2002 issue=20
  of&nbsp;<U>SAIL</U> magazine&nbsp;is definitely not loose =
footed.&nbsp;=20
  This&nbsp;is probably an evolving area of design &amp; the issue is =
not=20
  settled in the IACC.&nbsp; I'm surprised the&nbsp;IACC =
sailmakers&nbsp;would=20
  even consider loose footed mainsails, but your picture&nbsp;clearly =
shows they=20
  are.&nbsp; As I said in my previous post, I stand corrected on loose =
footed=20
  mainsails.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roger Pihlaja</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dmjm@michaelmeltzer.com =
href=3D"mailto:mjm@michaelmeltzer.com">Michael=20
    Meltzer</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 25, 2002 =
8:21=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Rhodes22-list] =
Mast=20
    Bending &amp; PHRF Rating</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.tree.net.nz//dscgi/ds.py/Get/File-3889">http://www.tre=
e.net.nz//dscgi/ds.py/Get/File-3889</A></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3Dcinetics@acsinc.net =
href=3D"mailto:cinetics@acsinc.net">David=20
      Rasberry</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 25, =
2002 8:57=20
      AM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: =
[Rhodes22-list] Mast=20
      Bending &amp; PHRF Rating</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D960084912-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>Since they dropped the twelve meters.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D960084912-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>Check the pix</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D960084912-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D960084912-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>Razz</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
        size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list-admin@rhod=
es22.org</A>=20
        [mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Roger=20
        Pihlaja<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 25, 2002 5:57 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
        Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending &amp; PHRF =
Rating<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Since when?</FONT></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
          <A title=3Dcinetics@acsinc.net =
href=3D"mailto:cinetics@acsinc.net">David=20
          Rasberry</A> </DIV>
          <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
          title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
          =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
          </DIV>
          <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August =
25, 2002=20
          2:15 AM</DIV>
          <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: =
[Rhodes22-list] Mast=20
          Bending &amp; PHRF Rating</DIV>
          <DIV><BR></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=3D930091406-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
          size=3D2>IACC class (America's Cup) boats have loose footed=20
          mains.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=3D930091406-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
          size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=3D930091406-25082002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
          size=3D2>Razz</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
            size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A=20
            =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list-admin@rhod=
es22.org</A>=20
            [mailto:rhodes22-list-admin@rhodes22.org]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Roger=20
            Pihlaja<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 24, 2002 7:01=20
            PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
            =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
            Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mast Bending &amp; PHRF=20
            Rating<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard,</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bullshit!&nbsp; To the best =
of my=20
            knowledge, there isn't a single performance oriented =
sailboat=20
            racing&nbsp;class that prefers to use loose footed =
mainsails.&nbsp;=20
            I don't know why Doyle has made this marketing =
decision.&nbsp;=20
            Fortunately, there are plenty of other choices of=20
            sailmakers&nbsp;&amp; I would run, not walk, away from=20
            this&nbsp;idiot at Doyle.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roger Pihlaja</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>S/V Dynamic =
eQuilibrium</FONT></DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
            style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
              <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
----- </DIV>
              <DIV=20
              style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20
              <A title=3Dsailnut@asan.com =
href=3D"mailto:sailnut@asan.com">R.G.=20
              Smith</A> </DIV>
              <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
              title=3Drhodes22-list@rhodes22.org=20
              =
href=3D"mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org">rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org</A>=
=20
              </DIV>
              <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, =
August 24,=20
              2002 2:46 PM</DIV>
              <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: =
[Rhodes22-list]=20
              Mast Bending &amp; PHRF Rating</DIV>
              <DIV><BR></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
              class=3D718413818-24082002>The mainsail on my boat is =
pretty much=20
              shot also.&nbsp; My boat is a re-mfg 1990&nbsp;and I =
insisted on=20
              the old style spars (non IMF)&nbsp;and the sail I =
have&nbsp;is all=20
              that Stan had.&nbsp; I got in touch with Doyle regarding a =
new=20
              main&nbsp;the sail they suggust&nbsp;has 2 full length =
battens at=20
              the head and 2 partial battens towards the=20
              foot.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
              class=3D718413818-24082002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
              class=3D718413818-24082002>The sail they quoted was also =
loose=20
              footed!&nbsp; When I expressed surprise I was told that =
(Doyle)=20
              was no longer building mains with bolt ropes along the =
foot.&nbsp;=20
              There contention is that a loose footed sail set's better =
and last=20
              longer.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
              class=3D718413818-24082002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
              class=3D718413818-24082002>Richard =
Smith</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                <DIV></DIV>
                <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =

                align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
              =
size=3D2><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>

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