[Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm
Toad the Wet Sprocket
rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:03:02 -0400
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Thanks Doug,</P>
<P> I have had plenty of great responses to my questions. When I fabricate a new rudder head, I wil be using the "original" as a template. I will make it so it has the same travel around the pivot. I do not like the way the movement is limited and will put a more positive mechanical stop. The blade now stops as the top of the blade wedges against the underside of the head. The leverage is concentrated on the pivot point; much like propping a spring-loaded door open by putting a broom handle in the hinge gap. I may even make a couple of different head to experiment with tensioning devices for kick up.(rainy day stuff) </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Sprocket<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>Please respond to <A href="mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com">sprocket80@hotmail.com</A></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>From: "Gardner, Douglas L. (LNG)" <DOUGLAS.GARDNER@LEXISNEXIS.COM>
<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
<DIV></DIV>To: "'rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org'" <RHODES22-LIST@RHODES22.ORG>
<DIV></DIV>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm
<DIV></DIV>Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:34:51 -0400
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Todd,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>From your questions, I'm going to assume you have a standard rig.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Re: 1) I can't say for sure, because I've never seen a standard rig R22.
<DIV></DIV>However, all of the other boats I've been on with a gooseneck work just like
<DIV></DIV>you describe. The gooseneck itself is free to slide up and down, and it is
<DIV></DIV>held in place by luff tension between the halyard and the downhaul. On my
<DIV></DIV>old boat, the halyard was set to a fixed position, and luff tension (and
<DIV></DIV>boom postion) were controlled by the downhaul.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>2) Rudder shape and position. MJM is correct. Making a new rudder without
<DIV></DIV>a good template would be far beyond my abilities.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>But, you had a couple of other questions in there. On my boat, and every
<DIV></DIV>other R22 I have heard report on the subject (except Roger's, which could be
<DIV></DIV>a special case given its age and all of his special modifications), the
<DIV></DIV>rudder is indeed forward of the vertical when it is properly positioned for
<DIV></DIV>a neutral helm. Exactly how far forward probably varies by boat and by how
<DIV></DIV>the rig is tuned.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Rudder shape: unless you have the new diamond board, the rudder on the R22
<DIV></DIV>is the same as the OEM centerboard. If I remember my Rhodes history
<DIV></DIV>correctly, Phil Rhodes never designed a rudder for the boat. Stan simply
<DIV></DIV>took the centerboard, eliminated the axle that it swings on, and drilled a
<DIV></DIV>hole at the "right" spot. The good news is that this rudder design
<DIV></DIV>perfectly balances the boat. Exact design has varied over the years, but
<DIV></DIV>mine is also weighted almost like the centerboard.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>I don't know if this helps, but I thought it might.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>--Doug Gardner
<DIV></DIV>s/v Fretnaught
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>-----Original Message-----
<DIV></DIV>From: Michael Meltzer [mailto:mjm@michaelmeltzer.com]
<DIV></DIV>Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:57 AM
<DIV></DIV>To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>1)Do you mean that the block that in the sail track is sliding up and down
<DIV></DIV>with no pin to stop it travel?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>2) Stright amswer please, how good are your boat building skill, replacing a
<DIV></DIV>rudder without the old one for a templet is at the adavanved to expert
<DIV></DIV>level, i.e call stan for new one or see if he can make a deal on a used one.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>MJM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>From: Toad <?xml:namespace prefix = mailto /><mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com>the Wet Sprocket
<DIV></DIV>To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org <mailto:rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
<DIV></DIV>Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 9:12 AM
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>David, or Anyone,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Again, the newbie has questions. Two questions arose after reading
<DIV></DIV>your letter.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>1. My boat is an older model and the goose neck is free floating....and
<DIV></DIV>has no "position". What method of positioning the boom do newer boats have?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>2. This question is more important because I was going to be making a new
<DIV></DIV>rudder. The previous owner had made the one on there now. The rudder
<DIV></DIV>actually pivots down so far that it goes slightly past vertical and starts
<DIV></DIV>to angle foreward. Is this by design?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Todd
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Please respond to sprocket80@hotmail.com <mailto:sprocket80@hotmail.com>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>From: "David Walker"
<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org
<DIV></DIV>To:
<DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm
<DIV></DIV>Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:16:41 -0400
<DIV></DIV>Joe, the weather helm you are experiencing is most likely due to the
<DIV></DIV>heeling. When the hull heels its geomtry relative to the water changes
<DIV></DIV>inducing whether helm. The is acutally a good thing, as when the rig gets
<DIV></DIV>overpowered, the boat will autmatically tend to head up and luff the sails.
<DIV></DIV>On my boat with moderate wind I can sail the 175 all the way out (full main
<DIV></DIV>of course) and if I can keep her from heeling too much she is well balanced.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>The amount of wind you can do this in will depend on your "movable
<DIV></DIV>balllast". As you reef the jib, you should match with reelfing the main.
<DIV></DIV>Many on the list will reccomend lowering the boom to the lower position as a
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>first reef. This will lower the COE of the main, but as the jib is 2x the
<DIV></DIV>size of the main, its benefit is small.
<DIV></DIV>Obvious, but also check to make sure the rudder is all the way down (leading
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>edge actually ahead of the pivot line).
<DIV></DIV>Dave Walker
<DIV></DIV>SV Windswept
<DIV></DIV>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>From: "Ware, Joseph W."
<DIV></DIV>To: "List Rhodes (E-mail)"
<DIV></DIV>Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:55 PM
<DIV></DIV>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Balanced Helm
<DIV></DIV>> I have an IMF and 175 Genny. Under about 100% Genny the helm is balanced.
<DIV></DIV>> When the Genny is pulled all the way out, and healing, there is a good
<DIV></DIV>> amount of weather helm. I have to push the tiller hard to keep her going
<DIV></DIV>> straight. Is normal, or is my rig set up wrong?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Joe
<DIV></DIV>> S/V Whisper
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
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