[Rhodes22-list] Electrical loads
Bill Effros
bill@effros.com
Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:35:33 -0500
Brad,
I'm an empiricist at heart.
At some point, and I think we are there, it's easier to just try it out than
to figure it out.
I see from later posts you and Rik have already done that with the genset.
I'm with Roger on the noise, and I think if you want an early or late cup of
coffee with that thing, beware of your neighbor's cannon.
I have, many times, sung the praises of the Link-10 for understanding
electrical loads in real time. I think this type of meter is a better way
to maintain a safe reserve than switched batteries.
I would love to learn we can make our boats safer by using electrically
powered devices, although I must mention I learned recently that my friend's
brand new Pacific Seacraft almost burned down to the water line due to
faulty factory wiring. (Another season for him of watching others sail
while the factory rebuilt his very expensive boat.)
As Rik mentioned, the implied ratings of many of these electrical devices
are not matched by their performance. The overload switches flip off before
they can perform any useful work. But keep fighting the good fight, and let
us know how it turns out.
Bill Effros
PS -- Rummy,
I don't want to hear about it:
(empiricism /Em"pIrIsIz(<schwa>)m, Im- / n.M17. [f. EMPIRIC + -ISM.]1
Practice based on experiment and observation. Formerly, ignorant or
unscientific practice, quackery. M17. 2 Philos. The doctrine or theory that
all knowledge is derived from sense- experience; the doctrine or theory that
concepts and statements have meaning only in relation to sense-experience.
Opp. RATIONALISM 3. Cf. SENSATIONALISM 1. L18.3 An assertion made on
empirical grounds. M19.2 logical empiricism: see LOGICAL a.empiricist n. &
a. (a) n. an exponent or adherent of empiricism; (b) adj. of, pertaining to,
or characterized by philosophical empiricism:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "brad haslett" <flybrad@yahoo.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Electrical loads
Bill, I should of known it would come to this sooner
or later. The Federal Code of Regulations Title 33
183.401 to 183.460 controls boat wiring. I'm pouring
through that now in an attempt to answer the second
part of your question. I was hoping an EE on the list
would jump in by now and either shoot this whole idea
down or solve it for us all. I'll get back to you
when the research is done. You are right about having
coffee in the dark. If you pursue this route you
would definately need two batteries and a switch.
Brad.
--- brad haslett <flybrad@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bill, I've looked at so many sites and read so many
> books it all runs together now. However, nothing
> I've
> seen to date referred to Puekerts theory so I did
> some
> research on that. Look at
> usbattery.com/specs4.html.
> It addresses Puecket and gives amp hour ratings. My
> numbers for a group 27 battery are close to theirs.
> I
> went through three universities until I found one
> that
> offered an accounting degree without calculus so my
> math is always suspect. Please point out where I
> failed this time. Brad.
> --- Bill Effros <bill@effros.com> wrote:
> > Brad,
> >
> > I'd love to know what you come up with. Your
> > problem will be something
> > called Puekert's Number or Puekert's Equation.
> Look
> > it up in Google.
> > According to the theory, your 180 amp battery
> simply
> > can't deliver that much
> > energy in such a short period of time. It can
> > deliver 1 amp for 180 hours,
> > but it can't deliver 180 amps for 1 hour.
> >
> > I've never tried it, so I don't know what the
> > threshold is, but I do know I
> > wouldn't want to be in a boat at night with hot
> > coffee and no lights.
> >
> > Try it and let me know.
> >
> > Since I plan to get rid of my batteries I may take
> a
> > look also. Will the
> > boat wiring withstand this kind of load?
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "brad haslett" <flybrad@yahoo.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cooking
> >
> >
> > Bill, I've seen several of those grills mounted on
> > R-22's and I like them. Anne has a charcoal only
> > grill on hers and I like that. According to my
> > math,
> > the 12vDC coffee makers draw 12 amps. Assuming a
> > fully charged 180 amp battery and a 50% draw down
> > threshold you could make 30 pots of hot water
> > (assuming a 15 minute cycle) without recharging,
> > more
> > if you wanted to take the battery closer to death.
> > (180/2)/(12*.25)= 30 pots. As was pointed out
> > earlier, you can't always count on the numbers
> > working
> > as advertised but I'm going to test this theory in
> > my
> > backyard before I set out.
> >
> > Brad Haslett
> > --- Bill Effros <bill@effros.com> wrote:
> > > Brad,
> > >
> > > We have long skirted over the cooking issue, I'm
> > > glad you brought it up.
> > >
> > > Like you, I'm uncomfortable with the fire down
> > > below. Roger has faced all
> > > adjacent surfaces with stainless steel. Have
> you
> > > seen those pictures?
> > >
> > > The Magma BarBQue grill can be hung over the
> stern
> > > rail so that it and the
> > > fuel and anything on fire will simply fall
> > > semi-harmlessly into the water.
> > > The new propane magmas can be used as a grill,
> as
> > an
> > > oven, or as a burner.
> > > I store my grill in the lazarette and can
> quickly
> > > set it up as needed.
> > > However it's a little awkward leaning out to
> cook,
> > > and many a good meal has
> > > fallen overboard.
> > >
> > > Roger pre-plans everything, packs food in dry
> ice,
> > > and prefers to cook it on
> > > shore. Since a Rhodes can be pulled right up to
> > the
> > > beach this is a viable
> > > option.
> > >
> > > Cooking on board is dicey even in much larger
> > boats.
> > > Scalding is always a
> > > danger, in addition to carbon monoxide, stuff
> > > catching on fire below deck,
> > > and fuel exploding.
> > >
> > > I doubt that cooking electrically is viable.
> The
> > > current draw is enormous
> > > and will suck the life out of as many batteries
> as
> > > you would ever consider
> > > carrying. The small generator cannot provide
> > enough
> > > power for cook as you
> > > generate, and would have to stay on 24 hours a
> day
> > > to recharge the batteries
> > > for 15 minutes of use. You'll wind up carrying
> > and
> > > playing with a whole lot
> > > of gasoline high on a potentially rocking boat
> > (not
> > > supposed to refill while
> > > hot--just one more problem.)
> > >
> > > Bill Berner has done a lot of cruising, and I'd
> > love
> > > to hear how he has
> > > handled this problem.
> > >
> > > I'd also love to hear how others handle both
> > > overnight cooking and cruising
> > > cooking.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "brad haslett" <flybrad@yahoo.com>
> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 10:34 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Electrical KISS
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill, for some reason about half the photos from
> > the
> > > R-22 server come up as text files on my
> computer.
> > > Haven't figured that one out yet. I looked for
> > the
> > > Thermos solution on the Rhodes22.org site but
> > didn't
> > > find it. We currently use a thermos for our day
> > > auto
> > > trips and it works fine and would suffice for
> > > daysailing. One of the nice things about being
> on
> > > the
> > > Tennessee River is the ability to travel and yet
> > > stay
> > > in protected waters. My older sons and I plan
> to
> > > make
> > > a trip to Knoxville in one direction and KY Lake
> > in
> > > the other, each trip 3-5 days or more if we
> don't
> > > trailer home and possibly to Mobile as well.
> I've
> > > already done the wiring for shore power, and the
> > DC
> > > stuff is a piece of cake (I worked as an
> aircraft
> > > mechanic decades ago and have an A&P license).
> > The
> > > only issue for me is weight and storage space.
> We
> > > don't plan on having any six course meals on
> board
> > > just some soup, some coffee, and some hot butter
> > for
> > > Rummy if we cross paths. I've owned three VW
> > > campers
> > > and an Airstream and I'm just not a big fan of
> > fire
> > > in
> > > confined spaces especially when it rocks.
> > Obviously
> > > I
> > > could buy bigger boat that had all the bells and
>
=== message truncated ===
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