[Rhodes22-list] trim rings
Karen Fiske / Marc Beroz
kfiske@erols.com
Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:32:31 -0500
On my boat only the forward ports have the trim rings on the exterior. Side
ports have them on the interior.
Marc
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes@earthlink.net>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
> Ah Ha....then they are different. On my 88, the trim ring is on the
> inside.
>
> Rummy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:30 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
>
>
> Rummy,
>
> Huh? My trim rings are on the outside Rummy.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes@earthlink.net>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:37 PM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
>
>
> > Roger,
> > Obviously the age of your hull makes your ports different than mine.
> > The trim ring fits on the inside, in the cabin and simply covers up
> > the hole. It's kinda what baseboard trim does in your house. I
> > replaced a port two years ago because of hail damage. I can honestly
> > tell you that the force of a hurricane wouldn't have removed the port.
>
> > The procedure for removing a properly seated port is quite time
> > consuming and will give you a whole new respect for marine grade
> > silicone. It involves using wooden shims and sharp knives to cut the
> > sealant loose. As for something coming over the bow and punching hole
> > in the port, you have better odds of it putting a hole in the hull.
> > The hail stones that knocked out the port were baseball size stones,
> > not your everyday falling from the sky stuff. I commend you for being
> > prepared, but common sense has to prevail at some point and time.
> > Being out in the kind of seas you are suggesting that could knock a
> > port out isn't prudent. I guess if I'm that stupid, and a port gets
> > knocked out, then I deserve what comes. Time to start dinking and head
>
> > for shore.
> >
> > Rummy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:08 PM
> > To: kroposki@innova.net; The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
> >
> >
> > Ed,
> >
> > No, I have not blown out a port - yet! But, I have taken green water
> > over the bow on several occasions & seen/felt the kind of forces
> > involved with this rapidly moving stream of water. There is no doubt
> > in my mind that it's capable of stripping those wood screws right out
> > of the fiberglass & blowing the port out.
> >
> > Hey, Ed, we're all adults here. It's OK if anyone wants to install
> > their ports in decorative mode. But, if someone is going to install
> > or tolerate a built-in weak point; then, they should at least be well
> > aware that their boat has a glass jaw & the circumstances which might
> > cause it to fail. It's perfectly valid to manage the weakness by
> > avoiding that part of the operating envelope.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kroposki" <kroposki@innova.net>
> > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:03 AM
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] trim rings
> >
> >
> > > Roger,
> > > After reading this discussion and Stan's reply, I have a
> > > question. I know that you sail on the Great Lakes (former home of
> the
> > > Edmond Fitzgerald). And you said that you sail hard. The question
> is
> >
> > > this, have you blown out a port?
> > > Ed K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger
> > > Pihlaja
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:36 AM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > >
> > > Rummy,
> > >
> > > You are both right & wrong re the structural value of the trim ring.
> > > If the trim ring is installed like it was originally on Marc's boat,
>
> > > in what I will
> > > call "decorative mode"; then, you are correct, it contributes no
> > > structural
> > > strength. However, if the trim ring is incorporated into a
> > thru-bolted
> > > sandwich structure as per the procedure in my FAQ; then, it becomes
> > > an integral part of a structural system that is conservatively
> > > estimated
> > to
> > > be
> > > about 100 times as strong as the port is in decorative mode. This
> > extra
> > > strength would only be important in heavy weather situations. If
> > > the boat is only sailed in protected waters & fair weather; then,
> > > the strength
> > of
> > > the
> > > port will probably never be tested. There are enough things that
> > > can
> > go
> > > crooked on a cruise & I like to sail my R-22 hard. I hate to
> > > install systems or gear on my boat that I have to baby & always be
> > > careful
> > about
> > > because of a built-in "gotcha". Of course, I also carry several
> > precut
> > > pieces of plywood with a rubber gasket glued on one side & thru
> > > bolts
> > to
> > > cover or plug a blown out port. Everybody uses their R-22
> > > differently
> > I
> > > guess.
> > >
> > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Tonjes" <johntonjes@earthlink.net>
> > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:49 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > >
> > >
> > > > Marc,
> > > > The trim ring on the interior is just that, a trim ring. It has NO
> > > > structural value. Proper caulking and using the proper screws to
> > > attach
> > > > the port on the outside is all you need to do. The trim ring is
> > > > held
> > > in
> > > > place with caulking.
> > > >
> > > > Rummy
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces@rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Roger
> > > > Pihlaja
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:14 PM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Marc,
> > > >
> > > > It all depends upon how & where you intend to use your R-22. If
> > > > you
> > > are
> > > > ever out in heavy weather & take a good solid wave into those
> > > > ports
> > > the
> > > > way they were installed; then, they will almost certainly blow
> > > > out.
> > > You
> > > > would be amazed how much water will get below thru even one blown
> > > > out port in heavy weather! A seaworthy installation would always
> be
> >
> > > > thru bolted as per my description in the FAQ. You're a big boy &
> > > > you can
> > > do
> > > > it however you wish, but remember you were advised on the correct
> > > > way
> > > to
> > > > do the job.
> > > >
> > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Karen Fiske / Marc Beroz" <kfiske@erols.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list@rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:05 PM
> > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Robert & Roger: - trim rings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Robert:
> > > > > The process so far has been painless. One port had been
> > > > > installed
> > > with
> > > >
> > > > > silicone & popped right off. The other was had some type of
> > > > > adhesive caulking & took just a bit more time to free. Both
> ports
> > > > > were held
> > > in
> > > > place
> > > > > by 10 screws that went through the flange of the port into the
> > > > > fiberglass skin (cabin side). These screws were about 3/4" long
> &
> > > only
> > > >
> > > > > went through
> > > > the
> > > > > inner skin of the cabin wall. There was no foam or wood between
> > > > > the inner
> > > > &
> > > > > outer cabin skins. There was a narrow band of caulking where the
> > > port
> > > > spigot
> > > > > passed through the outer cabin wall.
> > > > >
> > > > > I removed the screws and pulled the ports out. Then I just had
> > > > > to
> > > lift
> > > >
> > > > > the trim rings off (only held in place by silicone or caulk).
> > > > > Took
> >
> > > > > much more time to clean the caulking off the ports & fiberglass
> > > skin
> > > > > than to do anything else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Beckson has installation instructions at
> > > > > www.beckson.com/installport.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Roger:
> > > > > Thanks for the link. Beckson's website describes installing trim
> > > rings
> > > >
> > > > > either with flush mount barrel nuts through the trim rings or
> > > > > just
> >
> > > > > using silicone with no fasteners through the rings. The latter
> > > > > is
> > > > > certainly
> > > > easier
> > > > > & is what my prior installation was, - but it does not seem to
> > > > > be
> > > > > a very ship-shape way to do things. At this point I'm either
> going
> >
> > > > > to use
> > > > silicone
> > > > > only or use silicone with pan head screws through the trim
> > > > > rings
> > > > > & outer skin to hold them in place. I do have any wood or foam
> > > > > filler between the
> > > > 2
> > > > > fiberglass skins & am not planning to put any in. I 'd like to
> > > > > re-install the rings as GB had done it originally (without
> > > fasteners)
> > > > > but I wonder
> > > > how
> > > > > I can get a good silicone seal between the ring & fiberglass
> > > > > surface doing it this way. Apparently both GB & Beckson didn't
> see
> >
> > > > > it as a problem so maybe I'm just fretting over nothing. Marc
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
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