[ham] [Rhodes22-list] FW: A good idea

[brad haslett]

Slim, 

Let me answer the second question first.  Temperature
in the 70's, 8 to 12 knots of wind, lots of sunshine. 
This morning I went out and emptied the pockets of
water that had collected on the boat cover and they
were full of ice.  Its time for Spring!

United and USAir were two of the most aggressive
offenders/saviors, your choice, in the eighties.  The
theory in the 70's and 80's was that minorities and
women had been discriminated against in pilot hiring
(they were) and something needed to be done (it was). 
The policy did create a great deal of animosity among
white males who were displaced/delayed as a result. 
How long should this policy continue?  Minorities and
women have proven they are just as capable of flying
as white males and only a few dying "old school"
thinkers believe otherwise.  So level the playing
field and end the "kid glove" treatment.  My two sons
are white male and I would like them to believe that
if they work hard, get good grades, and apply
themselves they will succeed.  The cynical side of me
believes that before their careers are over they will
be passed over at least once because of some
"goody-two-shoes" diversity program.  Discrimination
is wrong, just end it.  Reversing it to right some old
wrong is still discrimination.

It sounds like your sister has had good timing all
around. Hopefully she took a lump sum retirement. I
have some friends at United and USAir and things don't
look good. 
 
Brad 
--- Steve Alm <salm@mn.rr.com> wrote:
> Brad,
> 
> In principle, I couldn't agree more.  In a perfect
> world there would be no
> discrimination.  Earlier I said, you can't keep a
> good man down, but I think
> I'll amend that and change it to, You can't keep a
> good white man down.
> Society has indeed found many ways to keep women and
> minorities down.  My
> sister is a (retired) captain for United and may
> very well have been one of
> those hired in the eighties you refer to.  Had it
> not been for some hiring
> guidelines, her job would have no doubt gone to a
> white man.  I don't think
> she was under qualified, but she was just fresh out
> of flight school at UND
> and had no previous experience.  We were all very
> happy for her but I'd bet
> there were a few experienced pilots that weren't. 
> Hiring women and
> minorities just for the sake of hiring women and
> minorities doesn't seem
> like a very good strategy, but without something in
> place to address this
> issue, there would be nothing but white men
> employed, and that doesn't seem
> appropriate either.  I'm glad you eventually landed
> (no pun intended) your
> dream job and I bet you were hired on your merits
> and not because you're
> white.  
> 
> BTW, how was the sailing in Florida?
> 
> Slim
> 
> On 2/27/03 6:51 PM, "brad haslett"
> <flybrad@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Slim,
> > 
> > Somewhat like the baseball player on Saturday
> Night
> > Live used to say, "aviation has been berry berry
> good
> > to me".  During the early 1980's only a few major
> > airlines were hiring.  Of the 100 or so very well
> > qualified pilots at the small commuter I flew for,
> > only a handful got interviews during that period,
> all
> > minorities.  The rest of us all eventually found
> our
> > "dream" jobs but it took a few more years.  Even
> then,
> > we would find ourselves in a hiring pool of
> qualified
> > candidates who had "jumped all the hoops" only to
> have
> > our class dates delayed while another minority
> hire
> > came in off the street ahead of us.  In many
> cases,
> > the street hire's qualifications were so far below
> the
> > rest of us it was hard to ignore. In this
> profession,
> > seniority is everything and two or three years of
> > waiting can mean the difference between working or
> > furlough in todays airline environment. I don't
> need
> > your sympathy or anyone elses, thank you, but I
> fail
> > to see the logic in addressing previous
> discrimination
> > by establishing a whole new class of
> discrimination.
> > If it is wrong in one direction, its wrong in the
> > other.
> > 
> > Brad
> > --- Steve Alm <salm@mn.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Brad,
> >> 
> >> Exactly how was it that you were "victimized" by
> >> reverse discrimination?
> >> Aren't you now a successful pilot and gainfully
> >> employed?  2nd home in
> >> China?  Sailing vacations in Florida?
> >> 
> >> It doesn't sound like you're a victim.  I sure
> don't
> >> feel sorry for you.
> >> 
> >> Slim
> >> 
> >> On 2/24/03 7:08 AM, "brad haslett"
> >> <flybrad@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Stan,
> >>> 
> >>> To everyone's relief (especially my family) I'm
> >>> leaving today for Florida to go sailing for a
> few
> >>> days.  It will be up to you to solve the worlds
> >>> problems.  With that in mind, let me leave you
> >> with a
> >>> few thoughts.
> >>> 
> >>> As was previously said on this list (Rummy I
> >> think)
> >>> you would have been successful with or with out
> >>> whatever help you recieved with your education.
> >> You
> >>> would have succeeded without an education. 
> Talent
> >> and
> >>> ability combined with ambition is nearly always
> >>> rewarded.  It may have taken longer but you
> would
> >>> still have achieved your goals.
> >>> 
> >>> As a victim of blatant reverse discrimination I
> >> have
> >>> some pretty strong feelings about affirmative
> >> action.
> >>> Frankly, I think its served whatever good
> purpose,
> >> if
> >>> any, it can and is overdue to eliminated.
> >>> 
> >>> The following are all quoted from a Wall Street
> >>> Journal letter titled "Wonder Land" by Daniel
> >>> Henninger last January (sorry, I clipped the
> >> article
> >>> but cut off the date, it was a Friday).
> >>> "Three years ago in New York, the percentage of
> >> black
> >>> students who did NOT graduate from high school
> was
> >>> 54%.  In California, 41%. In Tennessee, 54%
> didn't
> >>> graduate.  And in Wisconsin, which is thought of
> >> as a
> >>> fairly normal place, the percentage of black
> kids
> >> who
> >>> didn't make it out of high school in the class
> of
> >> 2000
> >>> was a mind-boggling 59%....This data appears in
> >>> Education Week's annual report, "Quality
> >>> Counts"....What we know and have known for a
> very
> >> long
> >>> time is that nearly half of America's black
> >> teenagers
> >>> haven't a hope of attending even the least-known
> >>> two-year community college anywhere.  What is
> the
> >> Rev.
> >>> Jesse L. Jackson doing about this scandal?  He
> is
> >>> calling Geooge W. Bush "the most anti-civil
> rights
> >>> president in 50 years."  Given those shameful
> >>> graduation rates, one wonders what the
> "pro-civil
> >>> rights presidents were doing the past 50
> >>> years.......It is remarkable how often the
> >> combatants
> >>> in the debate over college affirmative-action
> >> default
> >>> to the notion that nothing proves one's
> commitment
> >> to
> >>> "diversity" more than one's willingness to
> adjust
> >> the
> >>> entry requirements to a Harvard, Yale or
> Michigan.
> >>> For instance, New Jersey Rep. Robert Menendez
> >> ripped
> >>> into Mr. Bush last week over his legacy
> admission
> >>> "into the Ivy League."  Yale?  The average black
> >> child
> >>> attending high school in Newark, Camden,
> Paterson
> >> or
> >>> Jersey City can barely hope of getting into,
> say,
> >>> Rutgers......
> >>> 
> >>> The author's point, and mine, is that we have
> >> bigger
> >>> problems to deal with in education than worry
> >> about a
> >>> handful of super-achieving minorities who will
> >> make it
> 
=== message truncated ===


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