[ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mayday on the Hudson and other ironies

[Michael Meltzer]

could be, but remember I only guessing, you every notice that you never heard stories boats being "holed" in that area. some times
cracks, what happening is the blast fill is acting like renforcement with thick fiberglass holding everything in place, or a solid
rock for the outside to push on, the fiberglass has no movement and is very strong their. But on the other hand given allot of force
the lips of the keel will break and a "chuck" will come out(something has to give, think how people break rocks, or the end of a
counter top breaking). Now for the repair, working upsiddown it is hard to get heavy stuff to "hang", you have to be very good at
mixing the epoxy/fillers or you need to install a tube to inject a wet mix after the outside is sealed. I think nether was done.
worst yet they did not build up the area with mat(maybe the figured they was nothing to hold on to) and just used 1-2 layers of thin
glass to match the flair. Now you have a void that can hold water, freeze/thaw expansion  and a patch with little strength. Does not
take much to blow it out.

I need to see some pictures, this is my working theory, but I could be very off base without seeing it.

MJM



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kroposki" <kroposki at innova.net>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 1:49 PM
Subject: RE: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mayday on the Hudson and other ironies


> Michael,
> Since this was a jobber's hull, maybe he just poured sand into
> that space and the hole/crack allowed it to wash out?
>              Ed K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Michael Meltzer
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 1:01 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mayday on the Hudson and other
> ironies
>
> Roger it is the space I am reacting to, SOP in the build is to pour
> buckets of sand/polyester (along with lead/iron scrape metal
> depending on the year) into that area, it forms up tight with the hull
> reinforcing the area. Their should be no voids by simple
> pouring process(famous last words I know). Their is still a question in
> my mind exactly where the hole is but I wounding what took
> out the ballast and is also causing the suspicion the it is a repair
> that when wrong. Pictures!!
>
>
> MJM
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mayday on the Hudson and other
> ironies
>
>
> > Dear High & Dry,
> >
> > Michael's advice about needing to completely dry out the boat ASAP
> before
> > starting repairs is well taken.  However, you mentioned filling in
> some
> > 1-1/2 gal void space in the keel with concrete.  Please give that plan
> a lot
> > more thought before you actually do it.  You will improve the boat's
> > righting moment & give the ability to carry a little more sail area in
> > stronger winds.  However, adding that much concrete to the aft part of
> the
> > keel will affect the fore/aft trim of the boat, causing it to sink
> down by
> > the stern.  Think about how much wetted surface area there is in the
> hull
> > under the cockpit.  If you change the angle of attack on that much
> wetted
> > surface area by even a couple of degrees, you will add an incredible
> amount
> > of drag & permanently slow the boat down in light air, heavy air,
> motoring -
> > all the time.  The effect will be most noticable in light air.  Your
> fuel
> > mileage while motoring will drop.  You will also use up some fraction
> of the
> > boat's reserve bouyancy in the stern, which will decrease your boat's
> > ability to carry passengers.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Meltzer" <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 1:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mayday on the Hudson and other
> > ironies
> >
> >
> > > standard thickness should be about 3/4-1 inch in that area, OTHO the
> 1973
> > outsource with build all over the place, 1/32 sound like a
> > > bad patch job with a single lay of glass, does it look like a patch
> came
> > apart? maybe after the PO fix a grounding or a drop?
> > >
> > > you are going to need the boat on real boat stands for a while, Find
> the
> > limit of the thin area, step zero might be to cut it out,
> > > fill the blast with a sand/epoxy mix, mat/glass over and flair,
> sand,
> > epoxy overcoat. sound like you are going to need the cb trunk
> > > opened. That might be the session, but you need to get the hull
> dried and
> > the work done before the temp go below 50 at night.
> > >
> > > Can you get a digital camera on it?, IIRC you are in the industry,
> can you
> > get it into a yard and do you want to?
> > >
> > > BTW, look under the cockpit and in the bow for the foam, some people
> have
> > reported it missing, most case PO pulling it thinking it
> > > was waterlogged.
> > >
> > > MJM
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <FNuttersNY at aol.com>
> > > To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 11:31 PM
> > > Subject: [ham] Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mayday on the Hudson and other
> ironies
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well folks we had a hell of a day, so far the best sailing day on
> the
> > > > river,estuary, what ever.  Sailing along in the middle of the
> river we
> > came about and
> > > > suddenly went no where.  We heard banging in way of the
> centerboard and
> > > > though it had come loose but it still felt like it was raising and
> > lowering ok.
> > > > But the banging did not stop so we pulled in sails and motered for
> home
> > about 5
> > > > miles away.  We stoped at the foot of  the Newburg/Beacon bridge
> to
> > watch the
> > > > tide action so we could time our eta suddenly water started to
> enter the
> > boat.
> > > >  With both pumps  and both engines running we high tailed it for
> home.
> > (Back
> > > > to the old  2stk 4stk lots of hp not much hp and all that) we made
> it in
> > 35
> > > > min. By that time we had ankle deep water in the  cabin but since
> we
> > talked
> > > > about how great she floats (unsinkable and all that) I was not
> woried.
> > When we
> > > > tide up at the dock it realy started to come in and we had to put
> in a
> > 1/2hp
> > > > sump pump to get a head of it,  Luckely   it was high tide and we
> got
> > her on the
> > > > trailer.  To everyones astonishment  a hole  the width of the keel
> an 3
> > > > inches long helped empty the boat.  It is the very aft section of
> the
> > keel starting
> > > > at about one inch from where it fairs into the hull and the 3
> inches
> > down
> > > > along the vertical edge of the keel just behind the centerboard
> trunk.
> > How it
> > > > got there  no one knows it's in the damndest spot. One thing bugs
> me
> > however the
> > > > fiberglass in that  area is very thin not mor then a 1/32.  The
> void
> > space is
> > > > not very big maybe 11/2 gallons worth.  I'm tempted to fill it
> with
> > concrete.
> > > >  Now repairs and improvements.  Advice wellcome  comentary aswell.
> > Yours
> > > > trully   High and Dry.
> > > > __________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
>
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