[Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question

[Mary Lou Troy]

Slim,
The clone of that launch ramp is at Bowley's Marina in MD. We got pretty 
good at using it.

This is a reply to the Rhodes list that I made a couple of years ago back 
when we were still using that ramp:

"Russ, Last year (our first year of launching & loading Fretless) we had 
similar problems. Our first retrieval by ourselves I think we achieved a 
tongue weight of about 25 lbs. Because we just store the boat on its 
trailer at a marina we didn't have to worry about pulling it anywhere. We 
asked the list for advice and got some helpful advice about how to get the 
boat those last 8 or 9 inches forward but what works may depend on the 
steepness of the ramp. We have heard of good success from people who motor 
their boat on the trailer. Having never seen this done, we've never tried 
it. I know Stan says you can sail the boat on the trailer.....

Here is what works for us at our ramp. It involves someone getting wet. We 
don't use the tongue extension. We submerge the trailer until forward ends 
of the bunks are just barely above the water. (Getting the trailer too deep 
can cause other problems.) We position the bow stop on the trailer all the 
way forward. We then pull and winch the boat as far forward as she will go.
Usually this is right up to the bow stop - the boat then wants to settle 
aft as we pull her out. We pull the boat out a little bit at a time. As the 
boat comes out of the water the bow position changes and slack develops in 
the winch strap. The first 2-3 pulls are a foot or less and we tighten up 
on the winch strap each time. Usually by this time the weight of the boat 
is fully on the bunks and we can pull her the rest of the way out without 
her slipping back further." (end of copied post)

There may be more info in the FAQ or I may have more in the archives here 
if it's a continuing problem. While we no longer dry sail we launch at the 
beginning of the season and retrieve at the end. The ramp we use now is 
just the opposite - it's fairly shallow. We generally wait for mid to high 
tide and we've found that retrieval at mid tide works best with a couple of 
people on the stern rail. ;-)

Mary Lou
1991 R22 Fretless
Swan Creek, MD / Ft. Washington, PA






At 03:59 PM 5/30/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Roger and others,
>
>First of all, we were not using the tongue extension since the ramp was so
>steep.  Perhaps it would have changed our angle a little if we had.  But as
>Dan backed in--and he was going slowly--and the stern started to float, the
>angle between boat and trailer widened, the bow eye came down to meet the
>trailer V-stop and got hung up on it and tore the V pad off the through
>bolt.  Then the now-bare metal bow arm scratched the boat as it slid down
>and came to rest with the bare bow arm sort of hooked under the rub rail.
>It happened so fast that it makes me think there might have been a little
>drop-off in the ramp.  If we had the bow arm all the way touching the boat,
>the bow eye would still have hooked on it.  If anything, it seems we need to
>get the bow arm as far from the boat as possible, which we did.  The
>adjustable arm was max forward.  I like Mary Lou's idea of using a big
>cushion.  I also like the idea of having someone onboard to power the boat
>off the trailer with the motor.  The method of hitting the breaks at just
>the right moment kind of scares me.
>
>Now for the flip side.  Retrieving the boat has the same problem.  I've
>always had a hard time getting the boat far enough forward on the trailer.
>If you pull the bow eye all the way up to the V stop when the stern is still
>floating, then pull the trailer out of the water, the teeter-totter effect
>leaves the boat a foot or so away from the V stop when hauled out.  On one
>of my haul outs, I think it was my first, I even wound up with a negative
>tongue weight.
>
>On a brighter note, all systems are go with Blue Loon and our shake down
>went fine.  I loved the steering linkage between tiller and
>motor--especially motoring in reverse.  It seemed the boat steered as well
>going backward as forward.  Pretty cool!  As for the new battened IMF, like
>Julie said, we'll have to wait for stronger winds to see how it performs.
>
>I hope Julie and Dan post some pictures.  We all love the name and
>graphic--nice job, Rik!  I also hope Julie posts the pictures of her car
>after the accident.  When you see those, you'll all agree that she's lucky
>to still be with us.  Get well soon, Julie!
>
>Slim
>
>On 5/30/03 8:46 AM, "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> > Julie,
> >
> > I'm confused re your description of how pressure from the boat during the
> > launch caused the trailer's bow V-stop to "pop off"?  The hard rubber bow
> > V-stop on my boat trailer is thru-bolted.  Unless it were squeezed hard
> > enough to rupture the hard rubber casting or shear off the thru bolt, it
> > can't "pop off".  Or did you mean that the bow of the boat itself "popped
> > off" the rubber V-stop & slammed down into some metal part of the trailer?
> >
> > If the rubber V-stop casting or the thru bolt somehow failed; then, they
> > were either defective or old & worn out.  Replace them with new 
> pieces/parts
> > & all will be well.
> >
> > Rollers are not intended to be used as bow stops, so I don't recommend
> > changing the bow V-stop to a roller.  Consider upgrading your bow V-stop to
> > the newer clear or yellow urethane rubber models.  These premium bow 
> V-stops
> > cost a little more than black rubber, but they won't leave black marks on
> > your hull.
> >
> > Assuming it was the boat that popped off the V-stop, the solution is to 
> keep
> > the bow hard up against the V-stop during the launch.  Think of the boat
> > being launched as a teeter-toter.  As the stern goes into the water, it 
> will
> > start to float.  As the stern rises, the bow must drop.  The bow V-stop is
> > capable of pivoting on its thru bolt.  If the bow of the boat is held
> > tightly up against the V-stop; then, the stern of the boat will rise up as
> > the trailer is submerged & the boat will rotate around the bow 
> V-stop.  Note
> > that restraining the bow up tight against the V-stop is only necessary on a
> > very steep luanch ramp.  Basically, if you are concerned that the launch
> > ramp is steep enough that the boat might slide off the back of the trailer
> > prematurely; then, tie the bow to the V-stop.
> >
> > On a launch ramp with a more reasonable slope, the SOP is to have the boat
> > completely free of the trailer, motor & rudder up, tiller locked amidships.
> > Keep the bow secured to the trailer until the stern of the boat is about
> > 15-20 feet from the water's edge.  Make certain you are properly lined up
> > with the launch ramp; then, stop & release the bow line.  The trailer is
> > backed down into the water at walking speed, say 3-4 mph.  It's very
> > important to have the trailer properly lined up with the launch ramp, drive
> > smoothly, & don't touch the brakes until the boat is in the water!  When
> > only about 4 feet of trailer bunks are still visible above the water, the
> > brakes are applied sharply.  The boat will slide backwards off the trailer
> > slick as a whistle!  You can even do this launch singlehanded if you tie a
> > bow line onto the trailer or tow vehicle.  Once the boat is clear of the
> > trailer, you walk it over to the dock, tie it off, make certain any dock
> > lines are not fouled on the trailer or tow vehicle, & then drive the 
> trailer
> > back out of the water.
> >
> > I frequently launch & retrieve Dynamic Equilibrium single handed with this
> > technique.  I can launch & retrieve at least as quickly as any other 
> 22' LOA
> > boat, power or sail.
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:43 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
> >
> >
> >> Wally--
> >>
> >> Thanks for the suggestion and the words of encouragement for Julie.
> >>
> >> The launch speed is a detail missing from our initial description of the
> >> inaugural launch: I was backing the trailer into the water very, very
> > slowly
> >> before the boat came in contact with the bow stop and broke it. We also
> > had
> >> people manning dock lines on both sides of the boat as it backed down the
> >> ramp.
> >>
> >> The boat may have been slightly askew on the trailer from the long haul
> > from
> >> Edenton to Minnetonka. Could that be a factor? If so, is there a solution
> >> for righting such a heavy boat on the trailer?
> >>
> >> Would it be prudent to have someone in the boat to lower the motor and
> > start
> >> it up as soon as the stern is afloat, then put it in reverse? We see power
> >> boats do that.
> >>
> >> Finally, would the type of bow stop make a difference? Would a roller stop
> >> be better than a V-shaped stop, or is that not the purpose of a roller
> > stop?
> >> It looks as though a roller stop has to be mounted on a bracket, which
> > would
> >> not be as strong as the square steel that supports the V-stop. Is hard
> >> rubber the best material for the bow stop? Boating catalogs also sell
> >> mon-marking polypropylene V-shaped bow stops and roller bow stops.
> >>
> >> Dan (and Julie)
> >> s/v Blue Loon
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> >> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 6:57 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
> >>
> >>
> >>> Julie,
> >>>
> >>> As one who has broken ribs on two different occasions I feel your pain.
> > I
> >>> hope you have a quick recovery.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding launch I am not sure my trailer is set up the same why but in
> >> the
> >>> past with deep ramps we have backed in very slowly. When we got close to
> >> the
> >>> point of the boat floating we let the bow line going to the winch out so
> >>> there was some slack. Then we backed a little more until the boat just
> >>> started to float and pushed the boat off the trailer. If it needed to
> >> float
> >>> more we would back in just a tad more.
> >>>
> >>> It has worked for me on several different boats. Go slow!
> >>>
> >>> Good luck.
> >>>
> >>> Wally
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net>
> >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
> >>>> Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:47:18 -0500
> >>>>
> >>>> With the patient and generous help of Steve Alm (aka Slim), our newly
> >>>> delivered recycled Rhodes 22, Blue Loon, was rigged yesterday and
> >> launched
> >>>> today on Lake Minnetonka just outside of Minneapolis. The launch was at
> > a
> >>>> marina used mostly by keelboats and they generally use a
> > travelift/sling
> >> to
> >>>> drop them in the water rather than from trailers. Because of the this,
> >> the
> >>>> ramp is short and very steep.
> >>>>
> >>>> We ran into a problem with the stern floating completely and the front
> >>>> still resting on the bunks. The angle forced the bow onto the V-shaped
> >>>> rubber bow stop on the trailer, popping it off completely and dropping
> >> the
> >>>> bow onto the metal support underneath - end result:  the boat now has a
> >>>> long, deep scratch on her previously unblemished new paint job.
> >>>>
> >>>> Prior to the launch the bow was 4-5 inches away from the bow stop and
> > the
> >>>> support arm was retracted. The marina manager suggested that we may
> > have
> >>>> had better success had we moved the bow support arm out so that it was
> >>>> actually touching the boat before we started and tying a line from the
> >> bow
> >>>> eye to the the support to keep in snug. I'm not convinced that that
> > would
> >>>> have made a difference.
> >>>>
> >>>> Does anyone else have any experience launching with short, steep ramps
> >> and
> >>>> suggestions about avoiding future mishaps like this?
> >>>>
> >>>> Slim - if you want to add a more detailed explanation, please feel
> > free.
> >>>>
> >>>> On a more positive note, the new Yamaha that we got from Stan (9.9
> >>>> extra-long shaft) fired up and ran beautifully. Steve and Dan enjoyed a
> >>>> nice but somewhat calm sail on Blue Loon's maiden voyage under new name
> >> and
> >>>> new sails.  They also tested out the 'new' modified IMF batten sail but
> >>>> you'll probably have to wait for a stronger wind to get a report on how
> >>>> well it functions.
> >>>>
> >>>> I unfortunately had to stay on shore and watch - I was in a major auto
> >>>> pile-up on Friday and spent the holiday weekend in the hospital. My
> >> sailing
> >>>> season will have to wait until my broken ribs have some time to mend.
> >>>>
> >>>> Julie (and Dan)
> >>>> S/V Blue Loon ('96 Rhodes 22, recycled April 2003)
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
>__________________________________________________
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