[Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question

[Steve Alm]

Good idea, Rik.
Getting the tongue as low as possible would certainly improve the angle.
Slim

On 5/30/03 5:45 PM, "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Slim, Dan and Julie,
> 
> Been there done that. Haven't ripped off the bow stop yet though. We did
> hang the bow eye on top of the bow stop launching Rod and Mary's boat at Ky
> Lake last fall, but it didn't hurt anything.
> 
> Here's what I have done that has helped to relieve the problem a little.
> When I launch/retrieve, I use a different hitch head. It has an 8 inch drop
> to get the front of the trailer lower. Also, when I upgraded the axle on my
> trailer, I raised the springs 3/4 of an inch and I put on 16 inch wheels
> instead of 15 inch. All of this has probably raised the back of the trailer
> another couple of inches. Added together, this has decreased the difference
> in the angle between the trailer and the water quite a bit and made
> launching/retrieving much easier. I am able to get the boat ahead 6 to 8
> inches further now, when I load. It's still not perfect, but without some
> fancy mechanical or hydraulic moveable bunks, it's about as easy as it's
> going to get.
> 
> I even thought about cutting off the front of the trailer tongue and
> building an up and down adjustable setup that would work like a tongue
> jack. Once on the trailer was on the ramp a fellow could let the front of
> it down to within an inch of the pavement and cut the angle down even more.
> Never quite got around to doing it, since the things I mentioned above
> helped enough. It would have been fun to play with the design though.
> 
> Out where they build these boats and also the trailers, I don't think their
> ramps tend to be as steep. In fact I believe they usually have the opposite
> problem. I know the ramp we launched on at Edenton when we have been down
> there, was not nearly as steep as the ones we have used up here.
> 
> Rik
> 
> 
> On Fri, 30 May 2003 15:59:54 -0500, Steve Alm <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> Roger and others,
>> 
>> First of all, we were not using the tongue extension since the ramp was
>> so
>> steep.  Perhaps it would have changed our angle a little if we had.  But
>> as
>> Dan backed in--and he was going slowly--and the stern started to float,
>> the
>> angle between boat and trailer widened, the bow eye came down to meet the
>> trailer V-stop and got hung up on it and tore the V pad off the through
>> bolt.  Then the now-bare metal bow arm scratched the boat as it slid down
>> and came to rest with the bare bow arm sort of hooked under the rub rail.
>> It happened so fast that it makes me think there might have been a little
>> drop-off in the ramp.  If we had the bow arm all the way touching the
>> boat,
>> the bow eye would still have hooked on it.  If anything, it seems we need
>> to
>> get the bow arm as far from the boat as possible, which we did.  The
>> adjustable arm was max forward.  I like Mary Lou's idea of using a big
>> cushion.  I also like the idea of having someone onboard to power the
>> boat
>> off the trailer with the motor.  The method of hitting the breaks at just
>> the right moment kind of scares me.
>> 
>> Now for the flip side.  Retrieving the boat has the same problem.  I've
>> always had a hard time getting the boat far enough forward on the
>> trailer.
>> If you pull the bow eye all the way up to the V stop when the stern is
>> still
>> floating, then pull the trailer out of the water, the teeter-totter
>> effect
>> leaves the boat a foot or so away from the V stop when hauled out.  On
>> one
>> of my haul outs, I think it was my first, I even wound up with a negative
>> tongue weight.
>> 
>> On a brighter note, all systems are go with Blue Loon and our shake down
>> went fine.  I loved the steering linkage between tiller and
>> motor--especially motoring in reverse.  It seemed the boat steered as
>> well
>> going backward as forward.  Pretty cool!  As for the new battened IMF,
>> like
>> Julie said, we'll have to wait for stronger winds to see how it performs.
>> 
>> I hope Julie and Dan post some pictures.  We all love the name and
>> graphic--nice job, Rik!  I also hope Julie posts the pictures of her car
>> after the accident.  When you see those, you'll all agree that she's
>> lucky
>> to still be with us.  Get well soon, Julie!
>> 
>> Slim
>> 
>> On 5/30/03 8:46 AM, "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Julie,
>>> 
>>> I'm confused re your description of how pressure from the boat during
>>> the
>>> launch caused the trailer's bow V-stop to "pop off"?  The hard rubber
>>> bow
>>> V-stop on my boat trailer is thru-bolted.  Unless it were squeezed hard
>>> enough to rupture the hard rubber casting or shear off the thru bolt, it
>>> can't "pop off".  Or did you mean that the bow of the boat itself
>>> "popped
>>> off" the rubber V-stop & slammed down into some metal part of the
>>> trailer?
>>> 
>>> If the rubber V-stop casting or the thru bolt somehow failed; then, they
>>> were either defective or old & worn out.  Replace them with new
>>> pieces/parts
>>> & all will be well.
>>> 
>>> Rollers are not intended to be used as bow stops, so I don't recommend
>>> changing the bow V-stop to a roller.  Consider upgrading your bow V-stop
>>> to
>>> the newer clear or yellow urethane rubber models.  These premium bow V-
>>> stops
>>> cost a little more than black rubber, but they won't leave black marks
>>> on
>>> your hull.
>>> 
>>> Assuming it was the boat that popped off the V-stop, the solution is to
>>> keep
>>> the bow hard up against the V-stop during the launch.  Think of the boat
>>> being launched as a teeter-toter.  As the stern goes into the water, it
>>> will
>>> start to float.  As the stern rises, the bow must drop.  The bow V-stop
>>> is
>>> capable of pivoting on its thru bolt.  If the bow of the boat is held
>>> tightly up against the V-stop; then, the stern of the boat will rise up
>>> as
>>> the trailer is submerged & the boat will rotate around the bow V-stop.
>>> Note
>>> that restraining the bow up tight against the V-stop is only necessary
>>> on a
>>> very steep luanch ramp.  Basically, if you are concerned that the launch
>>> ramp is steep enough that the boat might slide off the back of the
>>> trailer
>>> prematurely; then, tie the bow to the V-stop.
>>> 
>>> On a launch ramp with a more reasonable slope, the SOP is to have the
>>> boat
>>> completely free of the trailer, motor & rudder up, tiller locked
>>> amidships.
>>> Keep the bow secured to the trailer until the stern of the boat is about
>>> 15-20 feet from the water's edge.  Make certain you are properly lined
>>> up
>>> with the launch ramp; then, stop & release the bow line.  The trailer is
>>> backed down into the water at walking speed, say 3-4 mph.  It's very
>>> important to have the trailer properly lined up with the launch ramp,
>>> drive
>>> smoothly, & don't touch the brakes until the boat is in the water!  When
>>> only about 4 feet of trailer bunks are still visible above the water,
>>> the
>>> brakes are applied sharply.  The boat will slide backwards off the
>>> trailer
>>> slick as a whistle!  You can even do this launch singlehanded if you tie
>>> a
>>> bow line onto the trailer or tow vehicle.  Once the boat is clear of the
>>> trailer, you walk it over to the dock, tie it off, make certain any dock
>>> lines are not fouled on the trailer or tow vehicle, & then drive the
>>> trailer
>>> back out of the water.
>>> 
>>> I frequently launch & retrieve Dynamic Equilibrium single handed with
>>> this
>>> technique.  I can launch & retrieve at least as quickly as any other 22'
>>> LOA
>>> boat, power or sail.
>>> 
>>> Good luck!
>>> 
>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Wally--
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the suggestion and the words of encouragement for Julie.
>>>> 
>>>> The launch speed is a detail missing from our initial description of
>>>> the
>>>> inaugural launch: I was backing the trailer into the water very, very
>>> slowly
>>>> before the boat came in contact with the bow stop and broke it. We also
>>> had
>>>> people manning dock lines on both sides of the boat as it backed down
>>>> the
>>>> ramp.
>>>> 
>>>> The boat may have been slightly askew on the trailer from the long haul
>>> from
>>>> Edenton to Minnetonka. Could that be a factor? If so, is there a
>>>> solution
>>>> for righting such a heavy boat on the trailer?
>>>> 
>>>> Would it be prudent to have someone in the boat to lower the motor and
>>> start
>>>> it up as soon as the stern is afloat, then put it in reverse? We see
>>>> power
>>>> boats do that.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, would the type of bow stop make a difference? Would a roller
>>>> stop
>>>> be better than a V-shaped stop, or is that not the purpose of a roller
>>> stop?
>>>> It looks as though a roller stop has to be mounted on a bracket, which
>>> would
>>>> not be as strong as the square steel that supports the V-stop. Is hard
>>>> rubber the best material for the bow stop? Boating catalogs also sell
>>>> mon-marking polypropylene V-shaped bow stops and roller bow stops.
>>>> 
>>>> Dan (and Julie)
>>>> s/v Blue Loon
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 6:57 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Julie,
>>>>> 
>>>>> As one who has broken ribs on two different occasions I feel your
>>>>> pain.
>>> I
>>>>> hope you have a quick recovery.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regarding launch I am not sure my trailer is set up the same why but
>>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>>> past with deep ramps we have backed in very slowly. When we got close
>>>>> to
>>>> the
>>>>> point of the boat floating we let the bow line going to the winch out
>>>>> so
>>>>> there was some slack. Then we backed a little more until the boat just
>>>>> started to float and pushed the boat off the trailer. If it needed to
>>>> float
>>>>> more we would back in just a tad more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It has worked for me on several different boats. Go slow!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good luck.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wally
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net>
>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:47:18 -0500
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With the patient and generous help of Steve Alm (aka Slim), our newly
>>>>>> delivered recycled Rhodes 22, Blue Loon, was rigged yesterday and
>>>> launched
>>>>>> today on Lake Minnetonka just outside of Minneapolis. The launch was
>>>>>> at
>>> a
>>>>>> marina used mostly by keelboats and they generally use a
>>> travelift/sling
>>>> to
>>>>>> drop them in the water rather than from trailers. Because of the
>>>>>> this,
>>>> the
>>>>>> ramp is short and very steep.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We ran into a problem with the stern floating completely and the
>>>>>> front
>>>>>> still resting on the bunks. The angle forced the bow onto the V-
>>>>>> shaped
>>>>>> rubber bow stop on the trailer, popping it off completely and
>>>>>> dropping
>>>> the
>>>>>> bow onto the metal support underneath - end result:  the boat now has
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> long, deep scratch on her previously unblemished new paint job.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Prior to the launch the bow was 4-5 inches away from the bow stop and
>>> the
>>>>>> support arm was retracted. The marina manager suggested that we may
>>> have
>>>>>> had better success had we moved the bow support arm out so that it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> actually touching the boat before we started and tying a line from
>>>>>> the
>>>> bow
>>>>>> eye to the the support to keep in snug. I'm not convinced that that
>>> would
>>>>>> have made a difference.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does anyone else have any experience launching with short, steep
>>>>>> ramps
>>>> and
>>>>>> suggestions about avoiding future mishaps like this?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Slim - if you want to add a more detailed explanation, please feel
>>> free.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On a more positive note, the new Yamaha that we got from Stan (9.9
>>>>>> extra-long shaft) fired up and ran beautifully. Steve and Dan enjoyed
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> nice but somewhat calm sail on Blue Loon's maiden voyage under new
>>>>>> name
>>>> and
>>>>>> new sails.  They also tested out the 'new' modified IMF batten sail
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> you'll probably have to wait for a stronger wind to get a report on
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> well it functions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I unfortunately had to stay on shore and watch - I was in a major
>>>>>> auto
>>>>>> pile-up on Friday and spent the holiday weekend in the hospital. My
>>>> sailing
>>>>>> season will have to wait until my broken ribs have some time to mend.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Julie (and Dan)
>>>>>> S/V Blue Loon ('96 Rhodes 22, recycled April 2003)
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> 
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __________________________________________________
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>> 
>> __________________________________________________
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> 
>