[Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question

[Rik Sandberg]

Slim, Dan and Julie,

Been there done that. Haven't ripped off the bow stop yet though. We did 
hang the bow eye on top of the bow stop launching Rod and Mary's boat at Ky 
Lake last fall, but it didn't hurt anything.

Here's what I have done that has helped to relieve the problem a little. 
When I launch/retrieve, I use a different hitch head. It has an 8 inch drop 
to get the front of the trailer lower. Also, when I upgraded the axle on my 
trailer, I raised the springs 3/4 of an inch and I put on 16 inch wheels 
instead of 15 inch. All of this has probably raised the back of the trailer 
another couple of inches. Added together, this has decreased the difference 
in the angle between the trailer and the water quite a bit and made 
launching/retrieving much easier. I am able to get the boat ahead 6 to 8 
inches further now, when I load. It's still not perfect, but without some 
fancy mechanical or hydraulic moveable bunks, it's about as easy as it's 
going to get.

I even thought about cutting off the front of the trailer tongue and 
building an up and down adjustable setup that would work like a tongue 
jack. Once on the trailer was on the ramp a fellow could let the front of 
it down to within an inch of the pavement and cut the angle down even more. 
Never quite got around to doing it, since the things I mentioned above 
helped enough. It would have been fun to play with the design though.

Out where they build these boats and also the trailers, I don't think their 
ramps tend to be as steep. In fact I believe they usually have the opposite 
problem. I know the ramp we launched on at Edenton when we have been down 
there, was not nearly as steep as the ones we have used up here.

Rik


On Fri, 30 May 2003 15:59:54 -0500, Steve Alm <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:

> Roger and others,
>
> First of all, we were not using the tongue extension since the ramp was 
> so
> steep.  Perhaps it would have changed our angle a little if we had.  But 
> as
> Dan backed in--and he was going slowly--and the stern started to float, 
> the
> angle between boat and trailer widened, the bow eye came down to meet the
> trailer V-stop and got hung up on it and tore the V pad off the through
> bolt.  Then the now-bare metal bow arm scratched the boat as it slid down
> and came to rest with the bare bow arm sort of hooked under the rub rail.
> It happened so fast that it makes me think there might have been a little
> drop-off in the ramp.  If we had the bow arm all the way touching the 
> boat,
> the bow eye would still have hooked on it.  If anything, it seems we need 
> to
> get the bow arm as far from the boat as possible, which we did.  The
> adjustable arm was max forward.  I like Mary Lou's idea of using a big
> cushion.  I also like the idea of having someone onboard to power the 
> boat
> off the trailer with the motor.  The method of hitting the breaks at just
> the right moment kind of scares me.
>
> Now for the flip side.  Retrieving the boat has the same problem.  I've
> always had a hard time getting the boat far enough forward on the 
> trailer.
> If you pull the bow eye all the way up to the V stop when the stern is 
> still
> floating, then pull the trailer out of the water, the teeter-totter 
> effect
> leaves the boat a foot or so away from the V stop when hauled out.  On 
> one
> of my haul outs, I think it was my first, I even wound up with a negative
> tongue weight.
>
> On a brighter note, all systems are go with Blue Loon and our shake down
> went fine.  I loved the steering linkage between tiller and
> motor--especially motoring in reverse.  It seemed the boat steered as 
> well
> going backward as forward.  Pretty cool!  As for the new battened IMF, 
> like
> Julie said, we'll have to wait for stronger winds to see how it performs.
>
> I hope Julie and Dan post some pictures.  We all love the name and
> graphic--nice job, Rik!  I also hope Julie posts the pictures of her car
> after the accident.  When you see those, you'll all agree that she's 
> lucky
> to still be with us.  Get well soon, Julie!
>
> Slim
>
> On 5/30/03 8:46 AM, "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>
>> Julie,
>>
>> I'm confused re your description of how pressure from the boat during 
>> the
>> launch caused the trailer's bow V-stop to "pop off"?  The hard rubber 
>> bow
>> V-stop on my boat trailer is thru-bolted.  Unless it were squeezed hard
>> enough to rupture the hard rubber casting or shear off the thru bolt, it
>> can't "pop off".  Or did you mean that the bow of the boat itself 
>> "popped
>> off" the rubber V-stop & slammed down into some metal part of the 
>> trailer?
>>
>> If the rubber V-stop casting or the thru bolt somehow failed; then, they
>> were either defective or old & worn out.  Replace them with new 
>> pieces/parts
>> & all will be well.
>>
>> Rollers are not intended to be used as bow stops, so I don't recommend
>> changing the bow V-stop to a roller.  Consider upgrading your bow V-stop 
>> to
>> the newer clear or yellow urethane rubber models.  These premium bow V- 
>> stops
>> cost a little more than black rubber, but they won't leave black marks 
>> on
>> your hull.
>>
>> Assuming it was the boat that popped off the V-stop, the solution is to 
>> keep
>> the bow hard up against the V-stop during the launch.  Think of the boat
>> being launched as a teeter-toter.  As the stern goes into the water, it 
>> will
>> start to float.  As the stern rises, the bow must drop.  The bow V-stop 
>> is
>> capable of pivoting on its thru bolt.  If the bow of the boat is held
>> tightly up against the V-stop; then, the stern of the boat will rise up 
>> as
>> the trailer is submerged & the boat will rotate around the bow V-stop.  
>> Note
>> that restraining the bow up tight against the V-stop is only necessary 
>> on a
>> very steep luanch ramp.  Basically, if you are concerned that the launch
>> ramp is steep enough that the boat might slide off the back of the 
>> trailer
>> prematurely; then, tie the bow to the V-stop.
>>
>> On a launch ramp with a more reasonable slope, the SOP is to have the 
>> boat
>> completely free of the trailer, motor & rudder up, tiller locked 
>> amidships.
>> Keep the bow secured to the trailer until the stern of the boat is about
>> 15-20 feet from the water's edge.  Make certain you are properly lined 
>> up
>> with the launch ramp; then, stop & release the bow line.  The trailer is
>> backed down into the water at walking speed, say 3-4 mph.  It's very
>> important to have the trailer properly lined up with the launch ramp, 
>> drive
>> smoothly, & don't touch the brakes until the boat is in the water!  When
>> only about 4 feet of trailer bunks are still visible above the water, 
>> the
>> brakes are applied sharply.  The boat will slide backwards off the 
>> trailer
>> slick as a whistle!  You can even do this launch singlehanded if you tie 
>> a
>> bow line onto the trailer or tow vehicle.  Once the boat is clear of the
>> trailer, you walk it over to the dock, tie it off, make certain any dock
>> lines are not fouled on the trailer or tow vehicle, & then drive the 
>> trailer
>> back out of the water.
>>
>> I frequently launch & retrieve Dynamic Equilibrium single handed with 
>> this
>> technique.  I can launch & retrieve at least as quickly as any other 22' 
>> LOA
>> boat, power or sail.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
>>
>>
>>> Wally--
>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestion and the words of encouragement for Julie.
>>>
>>> The launch speed is a detail missing from our initial description of 
>>> the
>>> inaugural launch: I was backing the trailer into the water very, very
>> slowly
>>> before the boat came in contact with the bow stop and broke it. We also
>> had
>>> people manning dock lines on both sides of the boat as it backed down 
>>> the
>>> ramp.
>>>
>>> The boat may have been slightly askew on the trailer from the long haul
>> from
>>> Edenton to Minnetonka. Could that be a factor? If so, is there a 
>>> solution
>>> for righting such a heavy boat on the trailer?
>>>
>>> Would it be prudent to have someone in the boat to lower the motor and
>> start
>>> it up as soon as the stern is afloat, then put it in reverse? We see 
>>> power
>>> boats do that.
>>>
>>> Finally, would the type of bow stop make a difference? Would a roller 
>>> stop
>>> be better than a V-shaped stop, or is that not the purpose of a roller
>> stop?
>>> It looks as though a roller stop has to be mounted on a bracket, which
>> would
>>> not be as strong as the square steel that supports the V-stop. Is hard
>>> rubber the best material for the bow stop? Boating catalogs also sell
>>> mon-marking polypropylene V-shaped bow stops and roller bow stops.
>>>
>>> Dan (and Julie)
>>> s/v Blue Loon
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 6:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
>>>
>>>
>>>> Julie,
>>>>
>>>> As one who has broken ribs on two different occasions I feel your 
>>>> pain.
>> I
>>>> hope you have a quick recovery.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding launch I am not sure my trailer is set up the same why but 
>>>> in
>>> the
>>>> past with deep ramps we have backed in very slowly. When we got close 
>>>> to
>>> the
>>>> point of the boat floating we let the bow line going to the winch out 
>>>> so
>>>> there was some slack. Then we backed a little more until the boat just
>>>> started to float and pushed the boat off the trailer. If it needed to
>>> float
>>>> more we would back in just a tad more.
>>>>
>>>> It has worked for me on several different boats. Go slow!
>>>>
>>>> Good luck.
>>>>
>>>> Wally
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: "Julie Thorndycraft" <julie at circle7.net>
>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steep Launch Question
>>>>> Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:47:18 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>> With the patient and generous help of Steve Alm (aka Slim), our newly
>>>>> delivered recycled Rhodes 22, Blue Loon, was rigged yesterday and
>>> launched
>>>>> today on Lake Minnetonka just outside of Minneapolis. The launch was 
>>>>> at
>> a
>>>>> marina used mostly by keelboats and they generally use a
>> travelift/sling
>>> to
>>>>> drop them in the water rather than from trailers. Because of the 
>>>>> this,
>>> the
>>>>> ramp is short and very steep.
>>>>>
>>>>> We ran into a problem with the stern floating completely and the 
>>>>> front
>>>>> still resting on the bunks. The angle forced the bow onto the V- 
>>>>> shaped
>>>>> rubber bow stop on the trailer, popping it off completely and 
>>>>> dropping
>>> the
>>>>> bow onto the metal support underneath - end result:  the boat now has 
>>>>> a
>>>>> long, deep scratch on her previously unblemished new paint job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Prior to the launch the bow was 4-5 inches away from the bow stop and
>> the
>>>>> support arm was retracted. The marina manager suggested that we may
>> have
>>>>> had better success had we moved the bow support arm out so that it 
>>>>> was
>>>>> actually touching the boat before we started and tying a line from 
>>>>> the
>>> bow
>>>>> eye to the the support to keep in snug. I'm not convinced that that
>> would
>>>>> have made a difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone else have any experience launching with short, steep 
>>>>> ramps
>>> and
>>>>> suggestions about avoiding future mishaps like this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Slim - if you want to add a more detailed explanation, please feel
>> free.
>>>>>
>>>>> On a more positive note, the new Yamaha that we got from Stan (9.9
>>>>> extra-long shaft) fired up and ran beautifully. Steve and Dan enjoyed 
>>>>> a
>>>>> nice but somewhat calm sail on Blue Loon's maiden voyage under new 
>>>>> name
>>> and
>>>>> new sails.  They also tested out the 'new' modified IMF batten sail 
>>>>> but
>>>>> you'll probably have to wait for a stronger wind to get a report on 
>>>>> how
>>>>> well it functions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I unfortunately had to stay on shore and watch - I was in a major 
>>>>> auto
>>>>> pile-up on Friday and spent the holiday weekend in the hospital. My
>>> sailing
>>>>> season will have to wait until my broken ribs have some time to mend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie (and Dan)
>>>>> S/V Blue Loon ('96 Rhodes 22, recycled April 2003)
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
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