[Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
Steve Alm
salm at mn.rr.com
Fri Apr 23 16:26:14 EDT 2004
Rob,
I'm with you on the overall scum factor of politicians. So what say
ye--Jesse Ventura in 2008? Whatever else people say about the Harvard
Fellow, nobody to my knowledge has ever accused him of being a liar. Just
the opposite--sometimes he can be a little too truthful! Of course, nobody
accused him of being a great governor either. 8-) Although, if you check
his record (his antics are one thing--executive decisions are another) in
his first year--what he signed and what he vetoed--I agreed with almost
everything. But in the subsequent 3 years, he kinda lost me. 8-) I'm
going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think he's electable as
president, but I'd love to see him run. That'd be a pretty interesting
campaign.
Slim
On 4/23/04 10:54 AM, "Rob Lowe" <rlowe at vt.edu> wrote:
> Rik,
> At least the debate has gotten civilized.
>
> I get tired after awhile of people pointing fingers at the Dems while the
> Repubs are doing the same thing and vice-versa. They are all politicians
> and all scum. Doesn't really matter which side they are on. Just pick your
> flavor, you want brown scum or green scum?
>
> Rob Lowe
> S/V Getaway
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico at earthlink.net>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Obviously, there are many opinions on the subject of Iraq and WMD. I can
> only speak for myself. My feeling on the WMD issue is that all of the
> hub-bub from the Dems that bush was lying about WMDs is just a way to
> discredit him before the next election. This should be pretty obvious by
> now. Note especially, Senator Kerry's quotes in that list and compare that
> to what you hear from him now. I don't believe you can trust this man any
> further than you could throw a bull by the tail!! Whether anyone was lying
> or not, it seems that either everyone was, Dems included, OR they weren't.
> This list (it seems it would be a long one) of liars/non-liars would have
> to include President Bush. How convenient is it now for the Dems to all
> decide that now it was only President Bush who was lying?
>
> I would have been in favor of "dethroning" Saddam Hussein whether he had
> WMD or not. He has proven himself to be an active supporter of terrorists
> and has been practically daring us, for years, to put our money where our
> mouth is. He was torturing and killing his citizens by the thousands and
> those he wasn't were starving to death due to our sanctions and embargos
> while Saddam sat, fat and happy, in his 56 palaces. Most of our actions up
> to the point of the start of the war were hurting the wrong people and
> doing no good at all. My only regret on this issue is that it wasn't taken
> care of in 1991, when it should have been finished in the first place. I
> cannot imagine the amount of human suffering this would have saved.
>
> I keep hearing about the UN this or that. JEEZ, has anybody looked at just
> who is running the UN these days??? Talk about the fox running the
> henhouse!!
>
> On the Afghanistan thing; Yes, we weren't able to catch Bin Laden. I have
> to admit, he is a pretty clever guy who seems to have a lot of friends
> willing to help him. Does this mean we shouldn't have tried??? The man has
> as much as admitted killing several thousand of our citizens and has as
> much as promised to kill more when he gets another chance. At least if we
> haven't been able to catch him, we have certainly made it more difficult
> for him to operate. I have no doubt that we will catch him eventually. Do
> the Dems have some magic plan for getting this done??? If so, I'd love to
> hear it. My guess is they want to return to the policies of the Clinton
> era, where he told those nasty guys how bad they were and lobbed a missile
> over there once in a while. Again, it should be pretty obvious by now,
> where those policies got us.
>
> Talk is nice, when it works, and Lord knows, I would rather talk than
> fight. Trouble is, if people don't believe that you will back up your words
> with your big stick, sometimes they have a tendency to not take you very
> seriously. This has been the case in the middle east for quite some time
> now. At least 10 years for sure for Saddam Hussein. I think we have made
> some believers over there now. Even Muammar Qaddafi (sp) seems to have had
> an "epiphany".
>
> I will not even attempt to debate anyone on the finer points of diplomacy
> and foreign policy. All I know is what I can see. Diplomacy wasn't working
> and more talk wasn't going to make the situation any better.
>
> Rik
>
>
> At 08:23 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
>> Rick,
>>
>> Great quotes! I'll check them out, but I have every reason to believe
>> they are accurate.
>>
>> The point is that the UN weapons inspectors, who were on the ground just
>> prior to the start of the war, said unequivocally that they had been given
>> access to everything they needed to be sure that Saddam Hussein no longer
>> had WMD. The Bush administration claimed to have evidence that Saddam
>> Hussein currently had WMD in staggering quantities, and they claimed to
>> know exactly where it was hidden, how and where it had been made, and who
>> made it.
>>
>> They told the world they could not trust the UN weapons inspectors with
>> this information, or anyone else for that matter. It was a matter of
>> national security. They said Saddam Hussein was continuing to manufacture
>> this stuff, and it was urgently necessary for the world to invade Iraq to
>> rid him of these weapons.
>>
>> The world told the Bush administration they did not believe our
>> intelligence, our assessment of it, or our remedy to the problem if one
>> actually existed. Bush invaded Iraq.
>>
>> I have the exact quotes to back up all of the above statements, and will
>> publish them shortly.
>>
>> If you still believe Saddam Hussein had WMD in 2003, and they vanished
>> without a trace despite our campaign of "shock and awe" and "decapitation"
>> then you must agree that the method used by the Bush Administration to rid
>> the world of this threat has failed. We still don't know where they are,
>> and we still don't know who has them. If they exist, they are a greater
>> threat to us now than they were when we knew where they were.
>>
>> Similarly with Afghanistan. As you may remember, I opposed the invasion
>> of Afghanistan as well. The entire rational for that invasion was to
>> capture Osama. He is still making tapes and bombing all over the
>> world. We failed in the mission. Meanwhile Afghanistan has descended
>> back into total anarchy--it has again become a narco-terrorist state, and
>> has regained its status as the leading producer of opium in the
>> world--with our help. Meanwhile Americans continue to die in that country
>> for no understandable reason.
>>
>> If you come across more quotes of the type you posted, I would appreciate
>> your sending them along. You have saved me a lot of work.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bill Effros
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Rik Sandberg
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
>>
>>
>> Take a read here guys, then maybe talk about who is BSing who in
>> regards to
>> WMDs.
>>
>> Rik
>> ______________________________________________________
>> I ran across this recently and found it very good reading.
>>
>> If you really believe that President BUSH lied,THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
>> WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ AND HE TOOK US TO WAR SOLELY FOR
>> HIS OIL
>> BUDDIES -- The truth and nothing but the truth should be known!!!
>>
>> "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
>> develop
>> weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is
> our
>> bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
>>
>> "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is
>> clear. We
>> want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
>> destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
>>
>> "Iraq is a long way from [the USA], but what happens there matters a
> great
>> deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use
>> nuclear,
>> chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
>> security threat we face." -Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
>>
>> "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
> times
>> since 1983." -Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb,
> 18,1998
>>
>> "We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
> U.S.
>> Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
>> appropriate,air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
>> effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
>> mass
>> destruction programs." -Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens.
> Carl
>> Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
>>
>> "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
>> destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and
> he
>> has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy
>> Pelosi (D,
>> CA), Dec. 16, 1998
>>
>> "Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
>> destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton
>> Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
>>
>> "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
>> programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear
> programs
>> continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition,
> Saddam
>> continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover
>> of a
>> licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will
>> threaten the
>> United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by
>> Sen. Bob
>> Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
>>
>> "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
>> threat
>> to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated
>> of the
>> United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
>> means of
>> delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
>>
>> "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
>> weapons
>> throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>>
>> "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
>> deter
>> and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in
>> power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>>
>> "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
>> developing
>> weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
>>
>> "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
>> confident
>> that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological
>> weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up
> his
>> chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports
>> indicate
>> that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct.
> 3,
>> 2002
>>
>> "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
>> authority to
>> use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
>> that a
>> deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and
>> grave threat to our security." -Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
>>
>> "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
>> aggressively to
>> develop nuclear weapons an d will likely have nuclear weapons within
>> the next
>> five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the
>> progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass
> destruction." -
>> Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
>>
>> "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
>> every
>> significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy
> his
>> chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
>> refused to do" Rep.- Henry Waxman (D, CA) , Oct. 10, 2002
>>
>> "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
>> that
>> Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
>> stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has
>> also
>> given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
>> members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein
>> will
>> continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
> warfare,
>> and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary
>> Clinton (D,
>> NY), Oct 10, 2002
>>
>> "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
>> Saddam
>> Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity
>> for the
>> production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob
>> Graham (D,
>> FL), Dec. 8, 2002
>>
>> "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
>> murderous
>> dictator, leading an oppressive regime .. He presents a particularly
>> grievous
>> threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And
>> now he
>> is is cal culating America's response to his continued deceit and his
>> consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of
>> Saddam
>> Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real - Sen. John F. Kerry
> (D,
>> MA), Jan. 23. 2003
>>
>> SO NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
>> WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES???
>>
>> So who's bullshitting who here????
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 22 2004 10:18 am, Steve wrote:
>>> I still find it funny that the below comments still
>>> come up. We still don't know what happen to Iraq
>>> WMDs. We know he made missles that were cabible of
>>> going past the UN limit. Warheads were cabable of
>>> carring chemical agents. That 20+ tons of Mustard gas
>>> that Libia gave up may be Irag. We are still finding
>>> Jets & all other kinds of stuff hid under the sand in
>>> Irag. UN thought Iraq had WMDs, Briton, US and most
>>> of the free world thought Irag had them. I believe
>>> the real question is not whether Iraq had WMDs but
>>> WHERE are the WMDs! Sylia, Iran? Two very good
>>> possibities!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> As for Nation Building, when a country such as our
>>> looses 3,000 people; a President must change, policy
>>> must change; to protect the people that are still
>>> alive. Otherwise, the US would have had more Deaths
>>> on it hands. And the President would have been blamed
>>> for NOT changeing policies to protect this country.
>>>
>>> I had a great weekend sailing last weekend also.
>>> Perfect wind, some fairly good wave action. It was
>>> even white capping most of the day Saturday.
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ed,
>>>>
>>>> The answer to your questions are easy, I am just not
>>>> sure why people care so
>>>> much. Yes there is a sucker born every minute! It is
>>>> clear that Clinton lied
>>>> to cover up his sucker. The guy got caught messing
>>>> around and lied about it.
>>>> Not exactly uncommon in our society or from our
>>>> elected officials. Please
>>>> note I did not vote for Clinton and agree the guy
>>>> was sleezy.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand we have a sitting president that
>>>> claimed while running for
>>>> office that he was against Nation Building. Once
>>>> elected he spread around a
>>>> bunch of rumors as facts leading us into war against
>>>> a nation that posed no
>>>> real threat to our National Security. This pisses me
>>>> off much more.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the Baker's, they are clowns and are only
>>>> here for us to make fun
>>>> of. :-)
>>>>
>>>> We had an awesome weekend last week! More of the
>>>> same coming this weekend. I
>>>> hope someone else besides me is going sailing.
>>>>
>>>> Wally
>>>>
>>>>> From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>
>>>>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
>>>>
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>
>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political
>>>>
>>>> instigation aggravated Date: Wed,
>>>>
>>>>> 21 Apr 2004 15:10:16 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark,
>>>>> If you like the what she says then surely you
>>>>
>>>> believed Bill when he
>>>>
>>>>> said "I did not ................................."
>>>>> What did that famous circus guy say, "one born
>>>>
>>>> every day and two to
>>>>
>>>>> take him." You have found your two. And I bet you
>>>>
>>>> sat in the front row of
>>>>
>>>>> Jim Baker's audiences.
>>>>> And if Bill is as smart as Rummy's email says he
>>>>
>>>> is, how come he
>>>>
>>>>> does not know right from wrong? Or the complete
>>>>
>>>> definitions of everyday
>>>>
>>>>> terms. Why is it acceptable for him to define
>>>>
>>>> words to suit himself and
>>>>
>>>>> then all the national news media accepts his
>>>>
>>>> definition as correct? Is
>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>> intelligence or an old fashion 'con job'.
>>>>> And, according to Rummy's email, Bush is not smart
>>>>
>>>> enough to 'con'
>>>>
>>>>> us :-) :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> ~~~~~ _/) ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>>>>
>>>> Behalf Of Mark Kaynor
>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:37 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
>>>>
>>>> instigation aggravated
>>>>
>>>>> This oughtta do it. I just watched Hillary Clinton
>>>>
>>>> on Larry King Live. I
>>>>
>>>>> keep finding that I like what she has to say.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
>>>>
>>>> Behalf Of Michael Meltzer
>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:35 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
>>>>
>>>> instigation aggravated
>>>>
>>>>> good point, I am not getting any, so why not bring
>>>>
>>>> up sex, thats different.
>>>>
>>>>> MJM
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mark Kaynor" <mark at kaynor.org>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>>>
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
>>>>
>>>> instigation aggravated
>>>>
>>>>>> Ed, Rummy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <Yawn> <Ho hum> How about bringing up something
>>>>
>>>> controversial? <g>
>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
>>>>
>>>> Behalf Of ed kroposki
>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:41 PM
>>>>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
>>>>
>>>> instigation aggravated
>>>>
>>>>>> Rummy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would suggest that your data is biased.
>>>>
>>>> Let me change the subject
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> a more controversial one, Religion:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you walk up the steps to the
>>>>>> building which houses the
>>>>>> U.S. Supreme Court you can see
>>>>>> near the top of the building a row of the
>>>>>> world's law givers and each one
>>>>>> is facing one in the middle who
>>>>>> is facing forward with a full frontal
>>>>>> view - it is Moses and he is holding the Ten
>>>>
>>>> Commandments!
>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you enter the Supreme Court
>>>>>> courtroom, the two huge oak doors
>>>>>> have the Ten Commandments engraved
>>>>>> on each lower portion of each door.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you sit inside the courtroom, you can
>>>>>> see the wall, right above where the
>>>>>> Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten
>>>>
>>>> Commandments!
>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are Bible verses etched in stone
>>>>>> all over the Federal Buildings
>>>>>> and Monuments in Washington, D.C.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James Madison, the fourth president,
>>>>>> known as "The Father of Our Constitution"
>>>>>> made the following statement
>>>>>> "We have staked the whole of
>>>>>> all our political institutions upon the
>>>>>> capacity of mankind for self-government,
>>>>>> upon the capacity of each and all of us
>>>>>> to govern ourselves, to control ourselves,
>>>>>> to sustain ourselves according to the Ten
>>>>
>>>> Commandments of God."
>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patrick Henry, that patriot and
>>>>>> Founding Father of our country said,
>>>>>> "It cannot be emphasized too strongly
>>>>>> or too often that this great nation was
>>>>>> founded not by religionists but by Christians,
>>>>>> not on religions but on the
>>>>>> Gospel of Jesus Christ."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every session of Congress begins with
>>>>>> a prayer by a paid preacher, whose
>>>>>> salary has been paid by the
>>>>>> taxpayer since 1777.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the
>>>>>> Constitution were members of
>>>>>> the established orthodox churches
>>>>>> in the colonies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DID YOU KNOW?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thomas Jefferson worried that
>>>>>> the Courts would overstep their
>>>>>> authority and instead of interpreting
>>>>>> the law would begin making
>>>>>> law....an oligarchy....the rule of few over
>>>>
>>>> many.
>>>>
>>>>>> Ed K (throwing gas on Rummy's wood fire)
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>
>>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>
>>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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>>>>> Name:
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> Type: image/gif Size:
>>>>> 5747 bytes Desc: not available
>>>>> Url:
>>>>
>>
>>>
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200404/21/cid_008701
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>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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