[Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
Rik Sandberg
sanderico at earthlink.net
Fri Apr 23 16:47:45 EDT 2004
Rob,
I guess I can't argue with that :-)
Rik
At 10:54 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
>Rik,
>At least the debate has gotten civilized.
>
>I get tired after awhile of people pointing fingers at the Dems while the
>Repubs are doing the same thing and vice-versa. They are all politicians
>and all scum. Doesn't really matter which side they are on. Just pick your
>flavor, you want brown scum or green scum?
>
>Rob Lowe
>S/V Getaway
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico at earthlink.net>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:45 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
>
>
>Bill,
>
>Obviously, there are many opinions on the subject of Iraq and WMD. I can
>only speak for myself. My feeling on the WMD issue is that all of the
>hub-bub from the Dems that bush was lying about WMDs is just a way to
>discredit him before the next election. This should be pretty obvious by
>now. Note especially, Senator Kerry's quotes in that list and compare that
>to what you hear from him now. I don't believe you can trust this man any
>further than you could throw a bull by the tail!! Whether anyone was lying
>or not, it seems that either everyone was, Dems included, OR they weren't.
>This list (it seems it would be a long one) of liars/non-liars would have
>to include President Bush. How convenient is it now for the Dems to all
>decide that now it was only President Bush who was lying?
>
>I would have been in favor of "dethroning" Saddam Hussein whether he had
>WMD or not. He has proven himself to be an active supporter of terrorists
>and has been practically daring us, for years, to put our money where our
>mouth is. He was torturing and killing his citizens by the thousands and
>those he wasn't were starving to death due to our sanctions and embargos
>while Saddam sat, fat and happy, in his 56 palaces. Most of our actions up
>to the point of the start of the war were hurting the wrong people and
>doing no good at all. My only regret on this issue is that it wasn't taken
>care of in 1991, when it should have been finished in the first place. I
>cannot imagine the amount of human suffering this would have saved.
>
>I keep hearing about the UN this or that. JEEZ, has anybody looked at just
>who is running the UN these days??? Talk about the fox running the
>henhouse!!
>
>On the Afghanistan thing; Yes, we weren't able to catch Bin Laden. I have
>to admit, he is a pretty clever guy who seems to have a lot of friends
>willing to help him. Does this mean we shouldn't have tried??? The man has
>as much as admitted killing several thousand of our citizens and has as
>much as promised to kill more when he gets another chance. At least if we
>haven't been able to catch him, we have certainly made it more difficult
>for him to operate. I have no doubt that we will catch him eventually. Do
>the Dems have some magic plan for getting this done??? If so, I'd love to
>hear it. My guess is they want to return to the policies of the Clinton
>era, where he told those nasty guys how bad they were and lobbed a missile
>over there once in a while. Again, it should be pretty obvious by now,
>where those policies got us.
>
>Talk is nice, when it works, and Lord knows, I would rather talk than
>fight. Trouble is, if people don't believe that you will back up your words
>with your big stick, sometimes they have a tendency to not take you very
>seriously. This has been the case in the middle east for quite some time
>now. At least 10 years for sure for Saddam Hussein. I think we have made
>some believers over there now. Even Muammar Qaddafi (sp) seems to have had
>an "epiphany".
>
>I will not even attempt to debate anyone on the finer points of diplomacy
>and foreign policy. All I know is what I can see. Diplomacy wasn't working
>and more talk wasn't going to make the situation any better.
>
>Rik
>
>
>At 08:23 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
> >Rick,
> >
> >Great quotes! I'll check them out, but I have every reason to believe
> >they are accurate.
> >
> >The point is that the UN weapons inspectors, who were on the ground just
> >prior to the start of the war, said unequivocally that they had been given
> >access to everything they needed to be sure that Saddam Hussein no longer
> >had WMD. The Bush administration claimed to have evidence that Saddam
> >Hussein currently had WMD in staggering quantities, and they claimed to
> >know exactly where it was hidden, how and where it had been made, and who
> >made it.
> >
> >They told the world they could not trust the UN weapons inspectors with
> >this information, or anyone else for that matter. It was a matter of
> >national security. They said Saddam Hussein was continuing to manufacture
> >this stuff, and it was urgently necessary for the world to invade Iraq to
> >rid him of these weapons.
> >
> >The world told the Bush administration they did not believe our
> >intelligence, our assessment of it, or our remedy to the problem if one
> >actually existed. Bush invaded Iraq.
> >
> >I have the exact quotes to back up all of the above statements, and will
> >publish them shortly.
> >
> >If you still believe Saddam Hussein had WMD in 2003, and they vanished
> >without a trace despite our campaign of "shock and awe" and "decapitation"
> >then you must agree that the method used by the Bush Administration to rid
> >the world of this threat has failed. We still don't know where they are,
> >and we still don't know who has them. If they exist, they are a greater
> >threat to us now than they were when we knew where they were.
> >
> >Similarly with Afghanistan. As you may remember, I opposed the invasion
> >of Afghanistan as well. The entire rational for that invasion was to
> >capture Osama. He is still making tapes and bombing all over the
> >world. We failed in the mission. Meanwhile Afghanistan has descended
> >back into total anarchy--it has again become a narco-terrorist state, and
> >has regained its status as the leading producer of opium in the
> >world--with our help. Meanwhile Americans continue to die in that country
> >for no understandable reason.
> >
> >If you come across more quotes of the type you posted, I would appreciate
> >your sending them along. You have saved me a lot of work.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Bill Effros
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rik Sandberg
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 9:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political instigation aggravated
> >
> >
> > Take a read here guys, then maybe talk about who is BSing who in
> > regards to
> > WMDs.
> >
> > Rik
> > ______________________________________________________
> > I ran across this recently and found it very good reading.
> >
> > If you really believe that President BUSH lied,THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
> > WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ AND HE TOOK US TO WAR SOLELY FOR
> > HIS OIL
> > BUDDIES -- The truth and nothing but the truth should be known!!!
> >
> > "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
> > develop
> > weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is
>our
> > bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
> >
> > "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is
> > clear. We
> > want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
> > destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
> >
> > "Iraq is a long way from [the USA], but what happens there matters a
>great
> > deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use
> > nuclear,
> > chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
> > security threat we face." -Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
> >
> > "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
>times
> > since 1983." -Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb,
>18,1998
> >
> > "We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
>U.S.
> > Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
> > appropriate,air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
> > effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
> > mass
> > destruction programs." -Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens.
>Carl
> > Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
> >
> > "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
> > destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and
>he
> > has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy
> > Pelosi (D,
> > CA), Dec. 16, 1998
> >
> > "Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
> > destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton
> > Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
> >
> > "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
> > programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear
>programs
> > continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition,
>Saddam
> > continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover
> > of a
> > licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will
> > threaten the
> > United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by
> > Sen. Bob
> > Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
> >
> > "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
> > threat
> > to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated
> > of the
> > United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
> > means of
> > delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
> >
> > "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
> > weapons
> > throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
> >
> > "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
> > deter
> > and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in
> > power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
> >
> > "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
> > developing
> > weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
> >
> > "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
> > confident
> > that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological
> > weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up
>his
> > chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports
> > indicate
> > that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct.
>3,
> > 2002
> >
> > "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
> > authority to
> > use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
> > that a
> > deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and
> > grave threat to our security." -Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
> >
> > "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
> > aggressively to
> > develop nuclear weapons an d will likely have nuclear weapons within
> > the next
> > five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the
> > progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass
>destruction." -
> > Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
> >
> > "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
> > every
> > significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy
>his
> > chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
> > refused to do" Rep.- Henry Waxman (D, CA) , Oct. 10, 2002
> >
> > "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
> > that
> > Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons
> > stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has
> > also
> > given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda
> > members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein
> > will
> > continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical
>warfare,
> > and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary
> > Clinton (D,
> > NY), Oct 10, 2002
> >
> > "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
> > Saddam
> > Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity
> > for the
> > production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob
> > Graham (D,
> > FL), Dec. 8, 2002
> >
> > "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
> > murderous
> > dictator, leading an oppressive regime .. He presents a particularly
> > grievous
> > threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And
> > now he
> > is is cal culating America's response to his continued deceit and his
> > consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of
> > Saddam
> > Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real - Sen. John F. Kerry
>(D,
> > MA), Jan. 23. 2003
> >
> > SO NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY
> > WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES???
> >
> > So who's bullshitting who here????
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 22 2004 10:18 am, Steve wrote:
> > > I still find it funny that the below comments still
> > > come up. We still don't know what happen to Iraq
> > > WMDs. We know he made missles that were cabible of
> > > going past the UN limit. Warheads were cabable of
> > > carring chemical agents. That 20+ tons of Mustard gas
> > > that Libia gave up may be Irag. We are still finding
> > > Jets & all other kinds of stuff hid under the sand in
> > > Irag. UN thought Iraq had WMDs, Briton, US and most
> > > of the free world thought Irag had them. I believe
> > > the real question is not whether Iraq had WMDs but
> > > WHERE are the WMDs! Sylia, Iran? Two very good
> > > possibities!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > As for Nation Building, when a country such as our
> > > looses 3,000 people; a President must change, policy
> > > must change; to protect the people that are still
> > > alive. Otherwise, the US would have had more Deaths
> > > on it hands. And the President would have been blamed
> > > for NOT changeing policies to protect this country.
> > >
> > > I had a great weekend sailing last weekend also.
> > > Perfect wind, some fairly good wave action. It was
> > > even white capping most of the day Saturday.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Ed,
> > > >
> > > > The answer to your questions are easy, I am just not
> > > > sure why people care so
> > > > much. Yes there is a sucker born every minute! It is
> > > > clear that Clinton lied
> > > > to cover up his sucker. The guy got caught messing
> > > > around and lied about it.
> > > > Not exactly uncommon in our society or from our
> > > > elected officials. Please
> > > > note I did not vote for Clinton and agree the guy
> > > > was sleezy.
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand we have a sitting president that
> > > > claimed while running for
> > > > office that he was against Nation Building. Once
> > > > elected he spread around a
> > > > bunch of rumors as facts leading us into war against
> > > > a nation that posed no
> > > > real threat to our National Security. This pisses me
> > > > off much more.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the Baker's, they are clowns and are only
> > > > here for us to make fun
> > > > of. :-)
> > > >
> > > > We had an awesome weekend last week! More of the
> > > > same coming this weekend. I
> > > > hope someone else besides me is going sailing.
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > > >From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
> > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > >
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >
> > > > >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > >
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >
> > > > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Mark's political
> > > >
> > > > instigation aggravated Date: Wed,
> > > >
> > > > >21 Apr 2004 15:10:16 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Mark,
> > > > > If you like the what she says then surely you
> > > >
> > > > believed Bill when he
> > > >
> > > > >said "I did not ................................."
> > > > > What did that famous circus guy say, "one born
> > > >
> > > > every day and two to
> > > >
> > > > >take him." You have found your two. And I bet you
> > > >
> > > > sat in the front row of
> > > >
> > > > >Jim Baker's audiences.
> > > > > And if Bill is as smart as Rummy's email says he
> > > >
> > > > is, how come he
> > > >
> > > > >does not know right from wrong? Or the complete
> > > >
> > > > definitions of everyday
> > > >
> > > > >terms. Why is it acceptable for him to define
> > > >
> > > > words to suit himself and
> > > >
> > > > >then all the national news media accepts his
> > > >
> > > > definition as correct? Is
> > > >
> > > > >that
> > > > >intelligence or an old fashion 'con job'.
> > > > > And, according to Rummy's email, Bush is not smart
> > > >
> > > > enough to 'con'
> > > >
> > > > >us :-) :-(
> > > > >
> > > > >~~~~~ _/) ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed K
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > >
> > > > Behalf Of Mark Kaynor
> > > >
> > > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:37 PM
> > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > >Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
> > > >
> > > > instigation aggravated
> > > >
> > > > >This oughtta do it. I just watched Hillary Clinton
> > > >
> > > > on Larry King Live. I
> > > >
> > > > >keep finding that I like what she has to say.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
> > > >
> > > > Behalf Of Michael Meltzer
> > > >
> > > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:35 PM
> > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
> > > >
> > > > instigation aggravated
> > > >
> > > > >good point, I am not getting any, so why not bring
> > > >
> > > > up sex, thats different.
> > > >
> > > > >MJM
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Mark Kaynor" <mark at kaynor.org>
> > > > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > >
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >
> > > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:35 PM
> > > > >Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
> > > >
> > > > instigation aggravated
> > > >
> > > > > > Ed, Rummy,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <Yawn> <Ho hum> How about bringing up something
> > > >
> > > > controversial? <g>
> > > >
> > > > > > Mark
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
> > > >
> > > > Behalf Of ed kroposki
> > > >
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:41 PM
> > > > > > To: 'The Rhodes 22 mail list'
> > > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rummy's political
> > > >
> > > > instigation aggravated
> > > >
> > > > > > Rummy,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would suggest that your data is biased.
> > > >
> > > > Let me change the subject
> > > >
> > > > >to
> > > > >
> > > > > > a more controversial one, Religion:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you walk up the steps to the
> > > > > > building which houses the
> > > > > > U.S. Supreme Court you can see
> > > > > > near the top of the building a row of the
> > > > > > world's law givers and each one
> > > > > > is facing one in the middle who
> > > > > > is facing forward with a full frontal
> > > > > > view - it is Moses and he is holding the Ten
> > > >
> > > > Commandments!
> > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you enter the Supreme Court
> > > > > > courtroom, the two huge oak doors
> > > > > > have the Ten Commandments engraved
> > > > > > on each lower portion of each door.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you sit inside the courtroom, you can
> > > > > > see the wall, right above where the
> > > > > > Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten
> > > >
> > > > Commandments!
> > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are Bible verses etched in stone
> > > > > > all over the Federal Buildings
> > > > > > and Monuments in Washington, D.C.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > James Madison, the fourth president,
> > > > > > known as "The Father of Our Constitution"
> > > > > > made the following statement
> > > > > > "We have staked the whole of
> > > > > > all our political institutions upon the
> > > > > > capacity of mankind for self-government,
> > > > > > upon the capacity of each and all of us
> > > > > > to govern ourselves, to control ourselves,
> > > > > > to sustain ourselves according to the Ten
> > > >
> > > > Commandments of God."
> > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Patrick Henry, that patriot and
> > > > > > Founding Father of our country said,
> > > > > > "It cannot be emphasized too strongly
> > > > > > or too often that this great nation was
> > > > > > founded not by religionists but by Christians,
> > > > > > not on religions but on the
> > > > > > Gospel of Jesus Christ."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Every session of Congress begins with
> > > > > > a prayer by a paid preacher, whose
> > > > > > salary has been paid by the
> > > > > > taxpayer since 1777.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the
> > > > > > Constitution were members of
> > > > > > the established orthodox churches
> > > > > > in the colonies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DID YOU KNOW?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thomas Jefferson worried that
> > > > > > the Courts would overstep their
> > > > > > authority and instead of interpreting
> > > > > > the law would begin making
> > > > > > law....an oligarchy....the rule of few over
> > > >
> > > > many.
> > > >
> > > > > > Ed K (throwing gas on Rummy's wood fire)
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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