[Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...

[Roger Pihlaja]

Carol,

Remember, my Rhodes 22 is a 1976 model and the electrical system is quite a
bit different than on newer models.  But, how do the wires from the motor
connect to the battery?  Are there separate connectors or do all the wires
go into a pair of battery post clamps that slip onto the battery's + & -
terminals?  If you are certain that all the wires from the motor get totally
disconnected from both the battery & the boat's electrical system; then, I
am at a loss to explain why the motor would be giving you a static
electricity shock.  However, if the wires from the motor go into a pair of
battery post clamps; then, disconnecting the battery would still leave the
motor hooked up to the boat's electrical system.

If the wires inside the mast were subjected to a sudden traumatic event such
as you described; then, there could very easily be some exposed conductors
inside the mast shorted out against some fasteners &/or mast structure.
However, if the wires exiting the base of the mast were not hooked up to
anything; then, it's not clear to me how the static charge is getting into
your boat's electrical system.  By any chance, is your motor somehow
grounded to the port backstay chainplate, like perhaps the motor mount & the
chainplate share a common backing plate down inside the lazarette
compartment?

Regarding Robert Bovee's theory of static charge build-up on the sails, did
you have the sails unfurled at the time you were getting shocks?  If the
sails were furled up; then, I seriously doubt they could collect much static
charge.  If the sails were unfurled, still dry, and there was a static
charge in the air; then, the sails might have sufficient surface area to
build up a very impressive voltage.  I've never heard of such a thing
happening before; but, I suppose it's possible.  But, how & why does this
static charge on the sails make your forward lower sidestays sing & give you
shocks only when you touch the motor?

I may be all wrong here; but, I think I'll stay with the electrical short
hypothesis inside the mast for the time being.  I'll be very interested in
hearing the results of your electrical resistance testing.

Good luck!

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

----- Original Message -----
From: <CarolN8 at aol.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...


> Roger, (And Gil and Michael)
> Thanks for your thoughts on this. As for the motor, the wires from the
motor
> go directly thru the transom and connect to the battery so I'm pretty sure
> they weren't connected. But I'm far from a technical person so I could
have
> missed another connection. Where would I look for that?
>
> The mast connection sounds interesting to me. I originally thought it
might
> have something to do with these wires because they were lying loosely at
the
> bottom of the mast. The running light and mast antenna wires were torn out
when
> I forgot to disconnect them before taking down the mast last winter (add
it to
> the hard lessons learned list). When I saw them after the storm, both
wires
> were exposed at the bottom of the mast and were touching each other. At
first I
> though this might cause a short, but then thought, neither was connected
to
> anything since they are broken. I did separate them and considered putting
> electrical tape over the exposed wires, but forgot to finish this project.
I hope
> to go out this weekend and will check it with a VOM meter.
>
> Thanks again for your help!
>
> ========Original Message========
> Subj:    Re: [Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...
>  Date:   8/4/2004 4:37:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time
>  From:   cen09402 at centurytel.net
>  Reply-to:   rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>  To:     rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>  Sent from the Internet (Details)
>
>
>
> Carol,
>
> Since your outboard has electric start, it must also have an alternator to
> keep the battery charged.  Usually, the alternator is hooked into the
boat's
> electrical system at or near the fuse panel or circuit breaker panel.
Thus,
> even though you disconnected your batteries, your alternator was still
> hooked up to your boat's electrical system.  That's probably why you kept
> getting a shock even after disconnecting the batteries.
>
> My guess is that you have a short circuit from an electrical cable running
> inside the mast, for example the VHF antenna coax cable or the masthead
> running light.  Under conditions where there is lighting nearby, the mast
> acts as a pretty efficient charge collector.  The fact that your forward
> lower sidestays are making sounds is an interesting clue.  My guess is
that
> the short circuit somehow involves the mechanical fasteners for this
element
> of the standing rigging.  On Dynamic Equilibrium, my 1976 Rhodes 22, the
> lower sidestays are fastened to the mast with a thru-bolted fitting.
> Assuming your mast is built in the same manner, perhaps the threads on
this
> thru-bolt have chafed thru the insulation on one of the electrical cables
> inside of your mast.  You can check this hypothesis with a VOM meter.
> Measure the electrical resistance to see that there is no electrical
> connection between all the conductors running up inside of your mast and
the
> mast itself as well as all the sidestays.  If the electrical resistance is
> anything but infinity (open circuit or overrange); then, the hypothesis is
> confirmed.
>
> Try this test &report the results back to the list.  In the meantime, I'll
> think about what else might be causing the symptoms you describe.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CarolN8 at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:12 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...
>
>
> >Roger,
> >
> >I sent this to the list last week but I think you were gone, and I'd like
> to
> >know if you have any ideas on this. Thanks!
> >Carol
> >
> >OK, since I've come out of lurker mode I might as well ask a question.
The
> >last two times I've been out when there are storm clouds in the area, I
> have
> >had
> >a problem with static electricity building up in the boat. Both times, I
> have
> >
> >received pretty bad shocks. The first time was when I tried to start the
> >motor (with an electric start). I thought I must have a short somewhere,
> so I
> >
> >unhooked both batteries but still got shocked every time I touched the
> motor.
> >I
> >was docked at the time, so I just went home. When I came back, it was
> sunny
> >out
> >and I had no problems.
> >
> >The next time it happened, there was a storm nearby (this happens
> frequently
> >in Colorado) and I was out sailing. All of a sudden I started hearing a
> >clicking sound coming off the forward stays. It was a steady and strong
> >click. I
> >immediately unhooked both batteries again, but it kept clicking. So I
> >carefully
> >hand-started the motor without touching the metal guard on the back
(which
> >was
> >no easy feat) and went back to the docks.
> >I've had this boat at the same marina for four years and this has never
> >happened before. Anybody have any ideas on what I can do? It's pretty
> >nerveracking!
> >
> >Carol
> >s/v Painkiller
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
>
>
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