[Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...

[Ronald Lipton]

I suspect that it is you charging up and discharging through the
motor, which provides a good ground connection to the water.
In any situation where there are high fields - around a storm or
even HV transmission lines, conductors (including you), can
charge up to different potentials depending on their relative
impedance, local fields, and the presence of sharp edges which
tend to dissipate charge.  You should be careful not to touch two
metal sections that are not securely grounded to each other.  Are
you wearing rubber-soled shoes (this will insulate from a wet
deck, and may limit the size of a shock, but not prevent it).
There is very little that you can do about the static charge buildup
other than tying all metal parts together so that they are
the same potential.  Stay out of electrical storms in small boats.
Open boats are more dangerous than sailboats because the mast
will direct the strike away from the sailor unless he/she is
touching metal.

Ron

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...


> Carol,
>
> Remember, my Rhodes 22 is a 1976 model and the electrical system is quite
a
> bit different than on newer models.  But, how do the wires from the motor
> connect to the battery?  Are there separate connectors or do all the wires
> go into a pair of battery post clamps that slip onto the battery's + & -
> terminals?  If you are certain that all the wires from the motor get
totally
> disconnected from both the battery & the boat's electrical system; then, I
> am at a loss to explain why the motor would be giving you a static
> electricity shock.  However, if the wires from the motor go into a pair of
> battery post clamps; then, disconnecting the battery would still leave the
> motor hooked up to the boat's electrical system.
>
> If the wires inside the mast were subjected to a sudden traumatic event
such
> as you described; then, there could very easily be some exposed conductors
> inside the mast shorted out against some fasteners &/or mast structure.
> However, if the wires exiting the base of the mast were not hooked up to
> anything; then, it's not clear to me how the static charge is getting into
> your boat's electrical system.  By any chance, is your motor somehow
> grounded to the port backstay chainplate, like perhaps the motor mount &
the
> chainplate share a common backing plate down inside the lazarette
> compartment?
>
> Regarding Robert Bovee's theory of static charge build-up on the sails,
did
> you have the sails unfurled at the time you were getting shocks?  If the
> sails were furled up; then, I seriously doubt they could collect much
static
> charge.  If the sails were unfurled, still dry, and there was a static
> charge in the air; then, the sails might have sufficient surface area to
> build up a very impressive voltage.  I've never heard of such a thing
> happening before; but, I suppose it's possible.  But, how & why does this
> static charge on the sails make your forward lower sidestays sing & give
you
> shocks only when you touch the motor?
>
> I may be all wrong here; but, I think I'll stay with the electrical short
> hypothesis inside the mast for the time being.  I'll be very interested in
> hearing the results of your electrical resistance testing.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CarolN8 at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...
>
>
> > Roger, (And Gil and Michael)
> > Thanks for your thoughts on this. As for the motor, the wires from the
> motor
> > go directly thru the transom and connect to the battery so I'm pretty
sure
> > they weren't connected. But I'm far from a technical person so I could
> have
> > missed another connection. Where would I look for that?
> >
> > The mast connection sounds interesting to me. I originally thought it
> might
> > have something to do with these wires because they were lying loosely at
> the
> > bottom of the mast. The running light and mast antenna wires were torn
out
> when
> > I forgot to disconnect them before taking down the mast last winter (add
> it to
> > the hard lessons learned list). When I saw them after the storm, both
> wires
> > were exposed at the bottom of the mast and were touching each other. At
> first I
> > though this might cause a short, but then thought, neither was connected
> to
> > anything since they are broken. I did separate them and considered
putting
> > electrical tape over the exposed wires, but forgot to finish this
project.
> I hope
> > to go out this weekend and will check it with a VOM meter.
> >
> > Thanks again for your help!
> >
> > ========Original Message========
> > Subj:    Re: [Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...
> >  Date:   8/4/2004 4:37:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time
> >  From:   cen09402 at centurytel.net
> >  Reply-to:   rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >  To:     rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >  Sent from the Internet (Details)
> >
> >
> >
> > Carol,
> >
> > Since your outboard has electric start, it must also have an alternator
to
> > keep the battery charged.  Usually, the alternator is hooked into the
> boat's
> > electrical system at or near the fuse panel or circuit breaker panel.
> Thus,
> > even though you disconnected your batteries, your alternator was still
> > hooked up to your boat's electrical system.  That's probably why you
kept
> > getting a shock even after disconnecting the batteries.
> >
> > My guess is that you have a short circuit from an electrical cable
running
> > inside the mast, for example the VHF antenna coax cable or the masthead
> > running light.  Under conditions where there is lighting nearby, the
mast
> > acts as a pretty efficient charge collector.  The fact that your forward
> > lower sidestays are making sounds is an interesting clue.  My guess is
> that
> > the short circuit somehow involves the mechanical fasteners for this
> element
> > of the standing rigging.  On Dynamic Equilibrium, my 1976 Rhodes 22, the
> > lower sidestays are fastened to the mast with a thru-bolted fitting.
> > Assuming your mast is built in the same manner, perhaps the threads on
> this
> > thru-bolt have chafed thru the insulation on one of the electrical
cables
> > inside of your mast.  You can check this hypothesis with a VOM meter.
> > Measure the electrical resistance to see that there is no electrical
> > connection between all the conductors running up inside of your mast and
> the
> > mast itself as well as all the sidestays.  If the electrical resistance
is
> > anything but infinity (open circuit or overrange); then, the hypothesis
is
> > confirmed.
> >
> > Try this test &report the results back to the list.  In the meantime,
I'll
> > think about what else might be causing the symptoms you describe.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <CarolN8 at aol.com>
> > To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:12 AM
> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Roger, I need your input...
> >
> >
> > >Roger,
> > >
> > >I sent this to the list last week but I think you were gone, and I'd
like
> > to
> > >know if you have any ideas on this. Thanks!
> > >Carol
> > >
> > >OK, since I've come out of lurker mode I might as well ask a question.
> The
> > >last two times I've been out when there are storm clouds in the area, I
> > have
> > >had
> > >a problem with static electricity building up in the boat. Both times,
I
> > have
> > >
> > >received pretty bad shocks. The first time was when I tried to start
the
> > >motor (with an electric start). I thought I must have a short
somewhere,
> > so I
> > >
> > >unhooked both batteries but still got shocked every time I touched the
> > motor.
> > >I
> > >was docked at the time, so I just went home. When I came back, it was
> > sunny
> > >out
> > >and I had no problems.
> > >
> > >The next time it happened, there was a storm nearby (this happens
> > frequently
> > >in Colorado) and I was out sailing. All of a sudden I started hearing a
> > >clicking sound coming off the forward stays. It was a steady and strong
> > >click. I
> > >immediately unhooked both batteries again, but it kept clicking. So I
> > >carefully
> > >hand-started the motor without touching the metal guard on the back
> (which
> > >was
> > >no easy feat) and went back to the docks.
> > >I've had this boat at the same marina for four years and this has never
> > >happened before. Anybody have any ideas on what I can do? It's pretty
> > >nerveracking!
> > >
> > >Carol
> > >s/v Painkiller
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
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