[Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke

[Kroposki]

Steve,
	The issue is that new 2 cycle engines are not smoke pots.  They
more than comply with the current environmental standards and they will
comply with the new impending standards.  
	As for using oil, all gas motors use oil and some of that
lubricating oil is combusted.  The issue is how much of that oil and gas
is wasted directly into the environment.  The old 2 cycle engines did
not care.  However, the EPA standards got the manufacturers attention
and the new engines do not statistically pollute the environment more
than 4 cycle engines which also spew pollutants.  All gas engines
pollute.  It is a matter of degree.  When that degree is evaluated
statistically is the difference significant?  Simply put, will the
impact difference between the two types of motors on the environment
really matter?  A few years ago the answer was yes, however, with design
changes the effects are no longer statistically significant.  They both
pollute. 

                                      Ed K
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:01 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 2 cycle vs 4 cycle

I thought the reason they came out with 4 strocks were
to satify the Non-smoking folks:-) You know, you have
a smoking part of a Restaurant; and a non-smoking
part.  You can now have a smoking part of a lake; & a
non-smoking part:-)You see, the more folks that go 4
stoke; that means the more folks that can go 2 stoke. 
And the enviroment only get poluted the same amount
that we have always done for years:-)Beside, we need a
little more Globle warming.  Temps here are in the
40s.  That evendent that we need to polute quite a bit
more.  Arkansas need to be warm up so are winter stay
above 50 degrees:-)What are you thinking, Michael:-)
Steve


--- Michael Meltzer <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com> wrote:
> Well lets try a differ tack for the sessions version
> of the question, "So how much harm are you willing
> to cause, like: frogs
> killed, fish unfit to eat, woman miscarry, children
> born with birth defects, men going impememnt, etc..
> so you can selflessy use
> your 2 stoke". BTW did you beat your wife to day :-)
> 
> MJM
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kroposki" <kroposki at innova.net>
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 9:12 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] 2 cycle vs 4 cycle
> 
> 
> > Rummy,
> > Here we go again.  I know better than question the
> technical
> > accuracy and efficacy of Roger's eloquent
> discussion, but I can lift my
> > 2 cycle when I have to by myself.  Roger forgets
> that not everybody has
> > two robust sons to help.  It is the old problem of
> being able to see a
> > tree when you are in a forest.
> > Ed K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 7:52 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Yamaha 9.9 Water Pump
> Replacement
> >
> > Jay,
> >
> > The usual problem with the water pump impellors on
> small outboards is
> > that
> > they are made from some sort of rubber.  It's
> really a rather clever
> > design.
> > At low speed & at start-up, the rubber vanes on
> the impellor touch the
> > water
> > pump housing, thus making the pump positive
> displacement & self-priming.
> > At
> > high speed, the rubber vanes deflect out of the
> way & ride on top of a
> > boundary layer of water on the wetted surface of
> the water pump housing.
> > At
> > high speed, the vanes don't experience any wear
> because they are not
> > touching the pump housing.  This design makes the
> water pump capable of
> > automatically switching from positive displacement
> mode to centrifugal
> > mode
> > for delivering the high volume of cooling water
> required by high speed
> > operation.
> >
> > So what goes wrong?  Well, if the water pump ever
> runs dry, the rubber
> > impellor will lose the lubrication & cooling
> provided by the water,
> > overheat, & destroy itself very quickly, like in a
> few seconds!
> > Exposure to
> > oil & gasoline in the water (like the oil film
> that laid down by 2-cycle
> > outboards) will gradually break down the rubber
> polymer molecules in the
> > impellor; leading to embrittlement, cracking, and
> failure.  This is
> > probably
> > the single biggest long-term failure mechanism. 
> Pump impellors should
> > be
> > routinely replaced every 4 years due to this cause
> alone.  There is also
> > another common failure mechanism related to
> storage.  When the lower leg
> > is
> > lifted free of the water, the entire cooling
> system drains down.  This
> > is
> > why the water pump needs to be self-priming at
> start-up.  Even fresh
> > water &
> > especially ocean water, has a certain amount of
> dissolved mineral salts
> > in
> > it.  When the cooling system drains down, a small
> amount of water is
> > left
> > trapped in between the ends of the vanes on the
> water pump impellor &
> > the
> > aluminum pump housing.  When this water eventually
> evaporates in
> > storage,
> > the impellor vanes can be bonded by salt crystals
> to the pump housing.
> > Depending upon how strong this bond is, the rubber
> impellor can be
> > damaged
> > the next time the engine is started when the vanes
> are ripped free of
> > the
> > salt crystals.  In addition, for the 1st few
> minutes of operation,
> > before
> > the salt crystals dissolve, they form a relatively
> rough surface on the
> > water pump housing that the rubber vanes have to
> run over on every
> > revolution.  Finally, there can be corrosion
> issues with moist salt
> > crystals
> > in long-term contact with the aluminum pump
> housing in this scenario.
> > In
> > salt water, it's considered good practice to fresh
> water flush the
> > cooling
> > system after every use & certainly before
> long-term storage.  After
> > long-term storage, it wouldn't hurt to fresh water
> flush the cooling
> > system
> > prior to start-up.  As part of my outboard
> winterizing proceedure, I
> > flush
> > propylene gylcol potable antifreeze (RV "red pop")
> thru the cooling
> > systems
> > of my outboards.  propylene glycol will prevent
> the build-up of salt
> > crystals in-between the vanes and the water pump
> housing.  During the
> > boating season, on every start-up, I gently pull
> the outboard thru with
> > the
> > pull cord prior to starting it to break the water
> pump impellor free &
> > give
> > the engine several minutes of low speed warm-up.
> >
> > The result, the only water pump I've ever had fail
> on any of my
> > outboards in
> > 25+ years of boating was the time when my younger
> son Gary ran the
> > inflatable dingy & Honda 9.9 hp outboard up on the
> beach with the engine
> > at
> > full throttle.  The water pump impellor was burnt
> to a crisp!
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Meltzer" <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Yamaha 9.9 Water Pump
> Replacement
> >
> >
> > > sounds like overkill and make work, maybe the
> impeller very 4 years,
> > but
> > the complete pump, nah. you are only putting 25-50
> hours on
> > > the motor every year, one thing you do have to
> watch is salt on the
> > thermostat(and blow the pelages, clean the pee tub
> yearly), is
> > > one of the few parts on the engine that is not
> rust proof, time will
> > get
> > it and they need to be replace every two years,
> luckily it
> > > is also a simple job that you can do yourself.
> > >
> > > MJM
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jay Friedland" <a.jayf at verizon.net>
> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 11:25 AM
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Yamaha 9.9 Water Pump
> Replacement
> > >
> > >
> > > > Folks,
> > > > My ob service guy says Yam recommends
> replacing the water pump
> > assembly
> > > > every year. The motor is 2001 with this the
> first year in service.
> > I'm
> > > > in salt water 9-10 months, occasionally flush
> with ear muffs (once a
> > > > month), and end of season run it in a barrel
> of fresh water for 1/2
> > > > hour (alos to burn off deposits, etc.).
> > > >
> > > > Anybody offer best suggestions on proceeding
> with this replacement
> > or
> > > > any other winter routine?
> > > >   Thanks, Jay
> > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
www.rhodes22.org/list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
__________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list