[Rhodes22-list] RE: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 410, Issue 2

[Michael Meltzer]

if this is an emerangcy, please dial 911,
For evertthing else we could use some more information. Like help with what?

MJM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Info" <info at roadworksauto.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 4:44 PM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] RE: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 410, Issue 2


> help
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of
> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 4:33 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 410, Issue 2
> 
> 
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam (Steve)
>    2. Re: Weather Forecasting (Richard Smith)
>    3. Re: Steve's winning fishing boat  (Steve)
>    4. Re: Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam  (Wally Buck)
>    5. RE: Weather Forecasting (Bob Weber)
>    6. RE: Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam
>       (jbconnolly at comcast.net)
>    7. Re: Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam
>       (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
>    8. RE: Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam (Steve)
>    9. Re: Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam (Steve)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:31:57 -0800 (PST)
> From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad
> nauseam
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <20040218143157.91709.qmail at web14911.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Yeah Rob, those boat & motor companies who sponser
> those tournament are the ones that push these big
> motors.  I have also heard that why they now have the
> guys come back & weight in thier catches a couple
> times a day as oppose to just at the end of the day
> like it use to be.  But if you show up early for the
> tournment & find a few good fishing holes; there is no
> need for that shotgun start.
> 
> Whats funny, is how dangerous it is to push those
> boats that fast where the boat is almost entirely out
> of the water.  All it would take is hitting one log &
> that boat would flip.  But I would also say that no
> one should ever stand in the way of someone doing
> somthing so stupid that they get themself killed -
> It's thier Constitutional Right, you know:-)
> Steve
> 
> 
> --- Rob Lowe <rlowe at vt.edu> wrote:
> > Last year when we were headed back to the marina
> > just before dusk, we
> > noticed a bunch of boats gathered around the
> > entrance.  All of a sudden, all
> > of them shot out of there like (pick your favorite
> > metaphor).  As they
> > scattered to all parts of the lake the noise and the
> > waves were hard to
> > describe.  Mark, who happened to be with us, said it
> > was a shot gun start
> > fishing tournament.  So, we figured the 200 hp motor
> > is so they can get to
> > their favorite fishing hole before the other guy.
> > Nothing like a little
> > "speed fishing".  Of course, as Steve suggests, a
> > big motor don't catch no
> > fish.
> >
> > Rob Lowe
> > S/V Getaway
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:05 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > cycle smoke: ad nauseam
> >
> >
> > > Now Jim.
> > > Look at the pictures.  Seriously, does that not
> > look
> > > stupid.  That boat need a 200 hp motor like I need
> > a
> > > hole in my head:-)  That guy is trying to impress
> > > someone but it not happening with me.  That 200 hp
> > > motor does nothing for helping his fishing.  There
> > was
> > > a fishing tournament back in October.  There were
> > pics
> > > in the paper of all these overpowered bass boats;
> > but
> > > what got me was the pic of the guy that won the
> > > tournment - Proudly holding up this big bass (your
> > > gonna love this) standing next to his 14 foot
> > tri-hull
> > > with a 50 hp motor:-)
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:36:23 -0500
> From: "Richard Smith" <sailnut at worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Weather Forecasting
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <001201c3f62c$969ef6a0$2f8e4b0c at evereadyinsurance.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> If you stand with your back to the wind low pressure will lie to your left.
> 
> In a similar fashion high pressure will lie to your right.
> 
> Why this is so can be easily visualized.  In the northern hemisphere
> circulation around an area of low pressure is always counter clockwise.
> Therefore if you face away from the prevailing wind the center of a nearby
> area of low pressure will always lie to your left.   Sketch it out...
> 
> For this phenomena to be true one must be within the circulation associated
> with the depression.  That's what barometers are for!  If the pressure is
> falling you are in a cyclonic circulation. A rising barometer implies the
> approach of a high pressure system (anti-cyclonic)
> 
> Now what does this have to do with weather forecasting;  Severe weather is
> always associated with low pressure because a low pressure (cyclonic)
> circulation also features vertical (rising motions).  These rising motions
> are responsible for cloudiness and precipitation.. bad weather.
> 
> High pressure (anti-cyclonic) circulation features descending  motions and
> is associated with clear weather.
> 
> It follows then that by knowing the location of the storms center the
> prudent mariner can take steps to avoid it.
> 
> What I have written here is greatly simplified but I think it gets the
> concept across.
> 
> Richard Smith
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:42:17 -0800 (PST)
> From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve's winning fishing boat
> To: kroposki at innova.net, The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <20040218144217.59121.qmail at web14910.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Excellent, Ed.  Wouldn't that have chap those bass
> fishermen:-) Although that 14 foot tri-hull probably
> had those boys talking.  Let see, If I remember right
> those bass boats with those big motor are probably in
> the 30k to 40k range - compared to the winner with his
> less than 1k boat:-)
> 
> Those big boat do nothing for fishing.  When I was a
> kid, I could catch more fish with a cane pole in Black
> River compared to all the fancy poles I have now.
> Shoot - most of the time when I go fishing now, I only
> take 1 pole and I have over 6.  I even have 1 pole
> that the last foot on the end of the pole glows in the
> dark.  What funny is that I don't fish at night & I
> don't have a clue why I brought that pole:-)  I guess
> everybody does stupid stuff.  I know I paid to much
> for that pole.
> Steve
> 
> --- Kroposki <kroposki at innova.net> wrote:
> > Steve,
> > And I thought you would say see his 12 foot jon
> > boat with 2 hp
> > motor.
> >                          Ed K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > Behalf Of Steve
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:05 AM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > cycle smoke: ad nauseam
> >
> > Now Jim.
> > Look at the pictures.  Seriously, does that not look
> > stupid.  That boat need a 200 hp motor like I need a
> > hole in my head:-)  That guy is trying to impress
> > someone but it not happening with me.  That 200 hp
> > motor does nothing for helping his fishing.  There
> > was
> > a fishing tournament back in October.  There were
> > pics
> > in the paper of all these overpowered bass boats;
> > but
> > what got me was the pic of the guy that won the
> > tournment - Proudly holding up this big bass (your
> > gonna love this) standing next to his 14 foot
> > tri-hull
> > with a 50 hp motor:-)
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > Maybe on widdle lakes.  Not on the mighty ocean.
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, sometimes even on little lakes.  See attached
> > >
> > > Jim Connolly
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Steve
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:39 AM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad nauseam
> > >
> > > I don't know if you guys know this but If you have
> > a
> > > motor on a fishing boat
> > > & its your main motor but it will not throttle
> > down
> > > enough to move from one
> > > fishing hole to the next - You have the wrong
> > motor
> > > on your
> > > boat:-)Especially when you would have a DC
> > trolling
> > > motor in the water that
> > > you will have to pull up; go to the back of you
> > boat
> > > & put the kicker in the
> > > water because your main motor doesn't idle.
> > > Hummmmmm, But on a bright note;
> > > this is the first time I have seen the 4 stroke
> > > justified like this.  There
> > > is an old sayings around here - Some folks have
> > more
> > > Dollars than Sence.  If
> > > you are wanting to throw money away - then this
> > make
> > > perfectly good sence.
> > > However, you may want to add a 3rd motor on the
> > back
> > > of that boat for when
> > > both the 4 stroke break down:-)  It only money,
> > and
> > > it not mine:-) Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > Also, on my old Grady White I had a Yamaha 250
> > v-6
> > > > 2- stroke.  Kicker was a
> > > > Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke for the very reason Russ
> > > Miller said.  Advantage
> > > > of mixing the two types of engine (in this case)
> > > was the 250 had
> > > > automatic oil mixing.  Fuel in tanks was not
> > > mixed, so the 9.9 ran off
> > > > the same fuel tanks as the 250.
> > > >
> > > > FWIW
> > > >
> > > > Jim Connolly
> > > > s/v Inisheer
> > > > 1985 recycled 2003
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Russell
> > > > Miller
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 6:22 PM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad
> > > > nauseam
> > > >
> > > > They need the smaller motor for troling, etc.
> > The
> > > big one does not
> > > > throttle down enough.
> > > >
> > > > Russ
> > > > s/v Bulldog
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:48 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad
> > > > nauseam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > One thing that I would add.  When you go to
> > buy
> > > a
> > > > new motor; pop off
> > > > > the cover and ask yourself - What would I do
> > if
> > > it
> > > > stop working far
> > > > > from shore?  Make you think!!!  FYI- Has
> > > everyone
> > > > seen these Big Bass
> > > > > Boats with those big 4 stroke motor - Have you
> > > > notice they all are
> > > > > carrying nowadays a 9.9 or 25 hp 2 stroke
> > > > > Kicker:-)  Wonder why???????????????
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > It manufactors make the 2 stroke meet
> > > standards;
> > > > how can you say
> > > > > > they will become a thing of the past?  I
> > don't
> > > > know anyone that like
> > > > > > a 4 stroke who has brought one.  Their heavy
> > > and
> > > > most folks can work
> > > > > > on them themselfs.  When you are out on the
> > > > water & your motor goes
> > > > > > out; being able to work on it yourself is
> > more
> > > > important than
> > > > > > polluting the air and/or water.
> > > > > > Besides, it is a well know fact that boat
> > > motors
> > > > are not the big
> > > > > > factor that pollute water.  That like saying
> > > > that smoking is the #1
> > > > > > health problem of people.  Everyone know
> > that
> > > > being FAT is the #1
> > > > > > health problem.  2 stroke will not be done
> > > away
> > > > with except on small
> > > > > > bodies of water (that if the facts were
> > known
> > > > are poluted by things
> > > > > > other that oil)  & Calaforia (where all the
> > > > crazy enviromentists
> > > > > > live).  The reasons most manufactors push 4
> > > > strokes are that they
> > > > > > get all the repair business.  Why fall into
> > > that
> > > > game.
> > > > > >  If you want to throw away your money; give
> > it
> > > > to me; I'll make good
> > > > > > use of it and buy some Bourbon:-) Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Jim White <jdwhite at panam.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    The 2 stroke 4 stroke debate is one
> > that
> > > no
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > in sailors circles,
> > > > > > >    but motorboat circles and generates
> > > > spirited
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > lively debate- it's
> > > > > > >    akin to arguing religion or politics.
> > As
> > > a
> > > > > > former
> > > > > > > mechanic turned
> > > > > > >    biologist (marine), I work hand in hand
> > > > with outboards, and
> > > > > > > repair
> > > > > > >    shops at our facility each day. We
> > > probably
> > > > log more water time
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > >    the average individual (I would guess).
> > > > Here
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > some of the things
> > > > > > >    that I have become aware of over the
> > past
> > > > > > several
> > > > > > > years:
> > > > > > >    1. Two stroke engines will very well
> > soon
> > > > be a thing of the
> > > > > > > past.
> > > > > > >    Pressure at the federal level to reduce
> > > > > > emissions
> > > > > > > in the water, as
> > > > > > >    well as the air will cause the death of
> > > the
> > > > 2-stroke. Common
> > > > > > > sense
> > > > > > >    then tells us that it will become
> > > > increasingly difficult to
> > > > > > > obtain
> > > > > > >    parts for those out of manufacture
> > > engines.
> > > > Yes all engines
> > > > > > > pollute,
> > > > > > >    and modern two strokes pollute much
> > less
> > > > than older ones. There
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > >    real fears out there like folks who mix
> > > > their
> > > > > > oil
> > > > > > > in the field (i.e.
> > > > > > >    in the parking lot or out on the water,
> > > and
> > > > > > spill
> > > > > > > directly, or older 2
> > > > > > >    strokes that mix into the gas tank by
> > > human
> > > > addition of the
> > > > > > > oil,
> > > > > > >    running around rich and smokey ("smoke
> > > > pots").....these are all
> > > > > > > well
> > > > > > >    founded fears that the regulators & and
> > > > environmentalists
> > > > > > > (especially)
> > > > > > >    justify in pushing out the good ol' 2
> > > > stroke
> > > > > > >    2. Four stroke engines  are inherently
> > > > heavier than two strokes
> > > > > > > to a
> > > > > > >    certain point in horsepower rating
> > (about
> > > > 90 or so), at which
> > > > > > > time the
> > > > > > >    weight becomes a non-issue. This makes
> > a
> > > > great deal of
> > > > > > > difference to
> > > > > > >    the small engine/small boat owner,
> > > > especially ones like
> > > > > > >    us....Manufacturers are working on
> > > cutting
> > > > the weight of those
> > > > > > > smaller
> > > > > > >    engines though, and the gap is closing
> > > > there.
> > > > > > >    3. Two stroke engines by virtue of
> > > > operation
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > a higher low end
> > > > > > >    torque which can be useful if you're
> > > > powering a boat that needs
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >    "get out of the hole"
> > quickly....usually
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > apply to sailcraft.
> > > > > > >    However newer 4 strokes are quickly
> > > closing
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > gap also.
> > > > > > >    4. According to our shops, four stroke
> > > > engines have fewer
> > > > > > > problems,
> > > > > > >    and see far less down time and many of
> > > our
> > > > > > former
> > > > > > > two stroke engine
> > > > > > >    fishing guides, eco-tour operators, and
> > > > especially sailboat
> > > > > > > owners are
> > > > > > >    now turning to the 4 stroke with this
> > > fact
> > > > as a major selling
> > > > > > > point.
> > > > > > >    However, when a four stroke breaks, it
> > > can
> > > > be a more costly
> > > > > > > repair
> > > > > > >    than a comparable two stroke, but
> > again,
> > > > with design changes in
> > > > > > > both
> > > > > > >    engines, the gap narrows here too.....
> > > > > > >    In any event, our facility has now
> > > plunged
> > > > into the 4 stroke
> > > > > > > world
> > > > > > >    along with the tide of others. BTW I
> > have
> > > a
> > > > > > 2002
> > > > > > > 9.9 Honda 4stroke as
> > > > > > >    auxiliary (notice the previous word)
> > > power
> > > > for
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > newly acquired
> > > > > > >    Rhodes 22, Le Menagerie.
> > > > > > >    Cheers (and sorry for the lengthy
> > > > diatribe/dissertation...
> > > > > > >    JDWHITE
> > > > > > >    At 05:57 AM 02/13/2004 -0800, you
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      Wally
> > > > > > >      I can't remember where I read the
> > > article
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > >      strokes meeting standards; one of my
> > > sail
> > > > mag
> > > > > > >      probably.  But I would think you are
> > > > right.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >      smaller motors don't already; its
> > just
> > > a
> > > > > > matter
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > >      time.
> > > > > > >      Steve
> > > > > > >      --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >      > I had heard that the new cleaner 2
> > > > strokes were only
> > > > > > >      > coming out in the
> > > > > > >      > larger motors. Is this true? I got
> > to
> > > > think that the
> > > > > > >      > technolgy will trickly
> > > > > > >      > down to the smaller motors as well
> > > but
> > > > you never
> > > > > > >      > know.....
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >      > Wally
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >      > >From: "Kroposki"
> > > <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > >      > >Reply-To: kroposki at innova.net,The
> > > > Rhodes
> > > > > > 22
> > > > > > > mail
> > > > > > >      > list
> > > > > > >      > ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > > > > >      > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2
> > > cycle
> > > > vs
> > > > > > 4
> > > > > > > cycle
> > > > > > >      > smoke
> > > > > > >      > >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:42:21
> > > -0500
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >Steve,
> > > > > > >      > >     The issue is that new 2 cycle
> > > > engines
> > > > > > > are not
> > > > > > >      > smoke pots.  They
> > > > > > >      > >more than comply with the current
> > > > environmental
> > > > > > >      > standards and they will
> > > > > > >      > >comply with the new impending
> > > > standards.
> > > > > > >      > >     As for using oil, all gas
> > > motors
> > > > use
> > > > > > > oil and some
> > > > > > >      > of that
> > > > > > >      > >lubricating oil is combusted.  The
> > > > issue
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > >      > much of that oil and gas
> > > > > > >      > >is wasted directly into the
> > > > environment.
> > > > > > > The old 2
> > > > > > >      > cycle engines did
> > > > > > >      > >not care.  However, the EPA
> > > standards
> > > > got the
> > > > > > >      > manufacturers attention
> > > > > > >      > >and the new engines do not
> > > > statistically pollute
> > > > > > >      > the environment more
> > > > > > >      > >than 4 cycle engines which also
> > spew
> > > > pollutants.
> > > > > > >      > All gas engines
> > > > > > >      > >pollute.  It is a matter of
> > degree.
> > > > When that
> > > > > > >      > degree is evaluated
> > > > > > >      > >statistically is the difference
> > > > > > significant?
> > > > > > >      > Simply put, will the
> > > > > > >      > >impact difference between the two
> > > > types of motors
> > > > > > >      > on the environment
> > > > > > >      > >really matter?  A few years ago
> > the
> > > > answer was yes,
> > > > > > >      > however, with design
> > > > > > >      > >changes the effects are no longer
> > > > statistically
> > > > > > >      > significant.  They both
> > > > > > >      > >pollute.
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >
> >
> > >
> > > > Ed
> > > > > > K
> > > > > > >      > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >      > >From:
> > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >[[1]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]
> > On
> > > > > > >      > Behalf Of Steve
> > > > > > >      > >Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004
> > > 9:01
> > > > AM
> > > > > > >      > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > >      > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 2
> > cycle
> > > > vs 4 cycle
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >I thought the reason they came out
> > > > with 4 strocks
> > > > > > >      > were
> > > > > > >      > >to satify the Non-smoking folks:-)
> > > You
> > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > >      > have
> > > > > > >      > >a smoking part of a Restaurant;
> > and
> > > a
> > > > non-smoking
> > > > > > >      > >part.  You can now have a smoking
> > > part
> > > > of
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > lake; &
> > > > > > >      > a
> > > > > > >      > >non-smoking part:-)You see, the
> > more
> > > > folks that go
> > > > > > >      > 4
> > > > > > >      > >stoke; that means the more folks
> > > that
> > > > can
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > >      > stoke.
> > > > > > >      > >And the enviroment only get
> > poluted
> > > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > >      > >that we have always done for
> > > > > > years:-)Beside,
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > >      > need a
> > > > > > >      > >little more Globle warming.  Temps
> > > > here
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > in the
> > > > > > >      > >40s.  That evendent that we need
> > to
> > > > polute quite a
> > > > > > >      > bit
> > > > > > >      > >more.  Arkansas need to be warm up
> > > so
> > > > are winter
> > > > > > >      > stay
> > > > > > >      > >above 50 degrees:-)What are you
> > > > thinking,
> > > > > > >      > Michael:-)
> > > > > > >      > >Steve
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >--- Michael Meltzer
> > > > > > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >      > > > Well lets try a differ tack for
> > > the
> > > > sessions
> > > > > > >      > version
> > > > > > >      > > > of the question, "So how much
> > > harm
> > > > are you
> > > > > > >      > willing
> > > > > > >      > > > to cause, like: frogs
> > > > > > >      > > > killed, fish unfit to eat,
> > woman
> > > > miscarry,
> > > > > > >      > children
> > > > > > >      > > > born with birth defects, men
> > > going
> > > > impememnt,
> > > > > > >      > etc..
> > > > > > >      > > > so you can selflessy use
> > > > > > >      > > > your 2 stoke". BTW did you beat
> > > > your
> > > > > > wife
> > > > > > > to day
> > > > > > >      > :-)
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > MJM
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >      > > > From: "Kroposki"
> > > > <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > >      > > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> > > 2004
> > > > 9:12 AM
> > > > > > >      > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] 2
> > cycle
> > > vs
> > > > 4 cycle
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > Rummy,
> > > > > > >      > > > > Here we go again.  I know
> > > better
> > > > than question
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > technical
> > > > > > >      > > > > accuracy and efficacy of
> > > Roger's
> > > > eloquent
> > > > > > >      > > > discussion, but I can lift my
> > > > > > >      > > > > 2 cycle when I have to by
> > > myself.
> > > > > > > Roger
> > > > > > >      > forgets
> > > > > > >      > > > that not everybody has
> > > > > > >      > > > > two robust sons to help.  It
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > > old
> > > > > > >      > problem of
> > > > > > >      > > > being able to see a
> > > > > > >      > > > > tree when you are in a
> > forest.
> > > > > > >      > > > > Ed K
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >      > > > > From:
> > > > > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > [[2]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]
> > > > On
> > > > > > >      > > > Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > >      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > 7:52
> > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > >      > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > >      > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > Yamaha
> > > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > Jay,
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > The usual problem with the
> > > water
> > > > pump
> > > > > > >      > impellors on
> > > > > > >      > > > small outboards is
> > > > > > >      > > > > that
> > > > > > >      > > > > they are made from some sort
> > of
> > > > > > rubber.
> > > > > > >  It's
> > > > > > >      > > > really a rather clever
> > > > > > >      > > > > design.
> > > > > > >      > > > > At low speed & at start-up,
> > the
> > > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > vanes
> > > > > > >      > on
> > > > > > >      > > > the impellor touch the
> > > > > > >      > > > > water
> > > > > > >      > > > > pump housing, thus making the
> > > > pump
> > > > > > > positive
> > > > > > >      > > > displacement & self-priming.
> > > > > > >      > > > > At
> > > > > > >      > > > > high speed, the rubber vanes
> > > > deflect
> > > > > > > out of
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > way & ride on top of a
> > > > > > >      > > > > boundary layer of water on
> > the
> > > > wetted
> > > > > > > surface
> > > > > > >      > of
> > > > > > >      > > > the water pump housing.
> > > > > > >      > > > > At
> > > > > > >      > > > > high speed, the vanes don't
> > > > > > experience
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > >      > wear
> > > > > > >      > > > because they are not
> > > > > > >      > > > > touching the pump housing.
> > > This
> > > > > > design
> > > > > > > makes
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > water pump capable of
> > > > > > >      > > > > automatically switching from
> > > > positive
> > > > > > >      > displacement
> > > > > > >      > > > mode to centrifugal
> > > > > > >      > > > > mode
> > > > > > >      > > > > for delivering the high
> > volume
> > > of cooling
> > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > >      > > > required by high speed
> > > > > > >      > > > > operation.
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > So what goes wrong?  Well, if
> > > the
> > > > > > water
> > > > > > > pump
> > > > > > >      > ever
> > > > > > >      > > > runs dry, the rubber
> > > > > > >      > > > > impellor will lose the
> > > > lubrication &
> > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > provided by the water,
> > > > > > >      > > > > overheat, & destroy itself
> > very
> > > quickly, like
> > > > > > >      > in a
> > > > > > >      > > > few seconds!
> > > > > > >      > > > > Exposure to
> > > > > > >      > > > > oil & gasoline in the water
> > > (like
> > > > the
> > > > > > > oil film
> > > > > > >      > > > that laid down by 2-cycle
> > > > > > >      > > > > outboards) will gradually
> > break
> > > > down
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > rubber
> > > > > > >      > > > polymer molecules in the
> > > > > > >      > > > > impellor; leading to
> > > > embrittlement,
> > > > > > > cracking,
> > > > > > >      > and
> > > > > > >      > > > failure.  This is
> > > > > > >      > > > > probably
> > > > > > >      > > > > the single biggest long-term
> > > > failure
> > > > > > >      > mechanism.
> > > > > > >      > > > Pump impellors should
> > > > > > >      > > > > be
> > > > > > >      > > > > routinely replaced every 4
> > > years
> > > > due
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > >      > cause
> > > > > > >      > > > alone.  There is also
> > > > > > >      > > > > another common failure
> > > mechanism related to
> > > > > > >      > > > storage.  When the lower leg
> > > > > > >      > > > > is
> > > > > > >      > > > > lifted free of the water, the
> > > > entire
> > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > system drains down.  This
> > > > > > >      > > > > is
> > > > > > >      > > > > why the water pump needs to
> > be
> > > self-priming at
> > > > > > >      > > > start-up.  Even fresh
> > > > > > >      > > > > water &
> > > > > > >      > > > > especially ocean water, has a
> > > > certain
> > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > >      > of
> > > > > > >      > > > dissolved mineral salts
> > > > > > >      > > > > in
> > > > > > >      > > > > it.  When the cooling system
> > > > drains
> > > > > > > down, a
> > > > > > >      > small
> > > > > > >      > > > amount of water is
> > > > > > >      > > > > left
> > > > > > >      > > > > trapped in between the ends
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > vanes on
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > water pump impellor &
> > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > > > > aluminum pump housing.  When
> > > this
> > > > > > water
> > > > > > >      > eventually
> > > > > > >      > > > evaporates in
> > > > > > >      > > > > storage,
> > > > > > >      > > > > the impellor vanes can be
> > > bonded
> > > > by
> > > > > > > salt
> > > > > > >      > crystals
> > > > > > >      > > > to the pump housing.
> > > > > > >      > > > > Depending upon how strong
> > this
> > > > bond
> > > > > > is,
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > rubber
> > > > > > >      > > > impellor can be
> > > > > > >      > > > > damaged
> > > > > > >      > > > > the next time the engine is
> > > > started
> > > > > > > when the
> > > > > > >      > vanes
> > > > > > >      > > > are ripped free of
> > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > > > > salt crystals.  In addition,
> > > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > 1st few
> > > > > > >      > > > minutes of operation,
> > > > > > >      > > > > before
> > > > > > >      > > > > the salt crystals dissolve,
> > > they
> > > > form
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > >      > relatively
> > > > > > >      > > > rough surface on the
> > > > > > >      > > > > water pump housing that the
> > > > rubber
> > > > > > > vanes have
> > > > > > >      > to
> > > > > > >      > > > run over on every
> > > > > > >      > > > > revolution.  Finally, there
> > can
> > > > be
> > > > > > > corrosion
> > > > > > >      > > > issues with moist salt
> > > > > > >      > > > > crystals
> > > > > > >      > > > > in long-term contact with the
> > > > > > aluminum
> > > > > > > pump
> > > > > > >      > > > housing in this scenario.
> > > > > > >      > > > > In
> > > > > > >      > > > > salt water, it's considered
> > > good practice to
> > > > > > >      > fresh
> > > > > > >      > > > water flush the
> > > > > > >      > > > > cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > > system after every use &
> > > > certainly
> > > > > > > before
> > > > > > >      > > > long-term storage.  After
> > > > > > >      > > > > long-term storage, it
> > wouldn't
> > > > hurt
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > fresh
> > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > >      > > > flush the cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > > system
> > > > > > >      > > > > prior to start-up.  As part
> > of
> > > my outboard
> > > > > > >      > > > winterizing proceedure, I
> > > > > > >      > > > > flush
> > > > > > >      > > > > propylene gylcol potable
> > > > antifreeze
> > > > > > (RV
> > > > > > > "red
> > > > > > >      > pop")
> > > > > > >      > > > thru the cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > > systems
> > > > > > >      > > > > of my outboards.  propylene
> > > > glycol
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > >      > prevent
> > > > > > >      > > > the build-up of salt
> > > > > > >      > > > > crystals in-between the vanes
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > water
> > > > > > >      > pump
> > > > > > >      > > > housing.  During the
> > > > > > >      > > > > boating season, on every
> > > > start-up, I
> > > > > > > gently
> > > > > > >      > pull
> > > > > > >      > > > the outboard thru with
> > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > > > > pull cord prior to starting
> > it
> > > to
> > > > > > break
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > >      > > > pump impellor free &
> > > > > > >      > > > > give
> > > > > > >      > > > > the engine several minutes of
> > > low
> > > > > > speed
> > > > > > >      > warm-up.
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > The result, the only water
> > pump
> > > > I've
> > > > > > > ever had
> > > > > > >      > fail
> > > > > > >      > > > on any of my
> > > > > > >      > > > > outboards in
> > > > > > >      > > > > 25+ years of boating was the
> > > time
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > >      > younger
> > > > > > >      > > > son Gary ran the
> > > > > > >      > > > > inflatable dingy & Honda 9.9
> > hp
> > > outboard up on
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > beach with the engine
> > > > > > >      > > > > at
> > > > > > >      > > > > full throttle.  The water
> > pump
> > > > > > impellor
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > >      > burnt
> > > > > > >      > > > to a crisp!
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > >      > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > > >      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >      > > > > From: "Michael Meltzer"
> > > > > > >      > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > >      > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > 2:25
> > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > >      > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > Yamaha
> > > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > sounds like overkill and
> > make
> > > > work,
> > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > impeller very 4 years,
> > > > > > >      > > > > but
> > > > > > >      > > > > the complete pump, nah. you
> > are
> > > > only
> > > > > > > putting
> > > > > > >      > 25-50
> > > > > > >      > > > hours on
> > > > > > >      > > > > > the motor every year, one
> > > thing
> > > > you
> > > > > > > do have
> > > > > > >      > to
> > > > > > >      > > > watch is salt on the
> > > > > > >      > > > > thermostat(and blow the
> > > pelages,
> > > > > > clean
> > > > > > > the pee
> > > > > > >      > tub
> > > > > > >      > > > yearly), is
> > > > > > >      > > > > > one of the few parts on the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > > that is
> > > > > > >      > not
> > > > > > >      > > > rust proof, time will
> > > > > > >      > > > > get
> > > > > > >      > > > > it and they need to be
> > replace
> > > > every
> > > > > > > two
> > > > > > >      > years,
> > > > > > >      > > > luckily it
> > > > > > >      > > > > > is also a simple job that
> > you
> > > > can
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > >      > yourself.
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > MJM
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > ----- Original Message
> > -----
> > > > > > >      > > > > > From: "Jay Friedland"
> > > > > > > <a.jayf at verizon.net>
> > > > > > >      > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail
> > list"
> > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > > 11:25 AM
> > > > > > >      > > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list]
> > > Yamaha
> > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > Folks,
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > My ob service guy says
> > Yam
> > > recommends
> > > > > > >      > > > replacing the water pump
> > > > > > >      > > > > assembly
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > every year. The motor is
> > > 2001
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > first year in service.
> > > > > > >      > > > > I'm
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > in salt water 9-10
> > months,
> > > occasionally
> > > > > > >      > flush
> > > > > > >      > > > with ear muffs (once a
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > month), and end of season
> > > run
> > > > it
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > >      > barrel
> > > > > > >      > > > of fresh water for 1/2
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > hour (alos to burn off
> > > > deposits,
> > > > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > Anybody offer best
> > > > suggestions on
> > > > > > >      > proceeding
> > > > > > >      > > > with this replacement
> > > > > > >      > > > > or
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > any other winter routine?
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >   Thanks, Jay
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > Use
> > > > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > > > [3]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > > > Use
> > > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > > > [4]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > > Use
> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > > > [5]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > > Use
> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > > > [6]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
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> >
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> > > > > > >      > Keep up with high-tech trends here
> > at
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> > [11]http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
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> > > > > > >    3. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >    4. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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> > > > > > >    6. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >    7. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >    8. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > >    9. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >   10. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >   11.
> > > > > >
> > http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > > > >   12. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >   13. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > >   14. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > __________________________________________________
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> > > > Name: 03pg10_Lund2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size:
> > 87545
> > > bytes Desc: not available
> > > Url:
> > >
> >
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200402/17/03pg10_L
> > und2.jpg
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:26:26 -0500
> From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad
> nauseam
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Message-ID: <Sea1-F48mdexI32f4QU00065bab at hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> 
> I see the high speed bass boats all the time. I find it amusing that just
> going fishing  is so dangerous you need to wear full helmets. :-)
> 
> A while back a train wrecked near the river leaking something that created
> toxic fumes. I can't remember what but I think it was chlorine.  Anyway they
> had to evacuate an area of several square miles. Most of the fumes stretched
> out across the river. Both TVA and TWRA had boats out and "closed" the
> river. This all took place during a Bass Tournament and a couple of the
> boats were caught on the wrong side of the fumes. When they tried to return
> for the weigh in the could not get through. One boat decided that toxic
> fumes be damned, we got some big fish in the well. They went right through
> the fumes at high speed and out ran the blockade.
> 
> They made it back to the weigh in and actualy won the $35,000 bass boat that
> was first prize. They were later arrested at the weigh in site and they were
> denied their prize. They wound up filing a law suit of course.  I think they
> lost the suit and had to pay several hundred dollars in fines.
> 
> I use the cheap Walmart rod and reel combos that cost about $15 dollars. I
> keep one on the boat year round with a small tackle box. I fish from both my
> sail boat and my kayak.
> 
> Fair Winds!
> 
> 
> >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad nauseam
> >Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:31:57 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Yeah Rob, those boat & motor companies who sponser
> >those tournament are the ones that push these big
> >motors.  I have also heard that why they now have the
> >guys come back & weight in thier catches a couple
> >times a day as oppose to just at the end of the day
> >like it use to be.  But if you show up early for the
> >tournment & find a few good fishing holes; there is no
> >need for that shotgun start.
> >
> >Whats funny, is how dangerous it is to push those
> >boats that fast where the boat is almost entirely out
> >of the water.  All it would take is hitting one log &
> >that boat would flip.  But I would also say that no
> >one should ever stand in the way of someone doing
> >somthing so stupid that they get themself killed -
> >It's thier Constitutional Right, you know:-)
> >Steve
> >
> >
> >--- Rob Lowe <rlowe at vt.edu> wrote:
> > > Last year when we were headed back to the marina
> > > just before dusk, we
> > > noticed a bunch of boats gathered around the
> > > entrance.  All of a sudden, all
> > > of them shot out of there like (pick your favorite
> > > metaphor).  As they
> > > scattered to all parts of the lake the noise and the
> > > waves were hard to
> > > describe.  Mark, who happened to be with us, said it
> > > was a shot gun start
> > > fishing tournament.  So, we figured the 200 hp motor
> > > is so they can get to
> > > their favorite fishing hole before the other guy.
> > > Nothing like a little
> > > "speed fishing".  Of course, as Steve suggests, a
> > > big motor don't catch no
> > > fish.
> > >
> > > Rob Lowe
> > > S/V Getaway
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:05 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad nauseam
> > >
> > >
> > > > Now Jim.
> > > > Look at the pictures.  Seriously, does that not
> > > look
> > > > stupid.  That boat need a 200 hp motor like I need
> > > a
> > > > hole in my head:-)  That guy is trying to impress
> > > > someone but it not happening with me.  That 200 hp
> > > > motor does nothing for helping his fishing.  There
> > > was
> > > > a fishing tournament back in October.  There were
> > > pics
> > > > in the paper of all these overpowered bass boats;
> > > but
> > > > what got me was the pic of the guy that won the
> > > > tournment - Proudly holding up this big bass (your
> > > > gonna love this) standing next to his 14 foot
> > > tri-hull
> > > > with a 50 hp motor:-)
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> >www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
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> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:50:18 -0600
> From: "Bob Weber" <ruba1811 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Weather Forecasting
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Message-ID: <Law11-F92vdp1NR1AN600020c88 at hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> 
> Slim, To find the center of a Low you put your back to the wind and put your
> LEFT arm out.  That should point to the center of the low.  If your
> barometer reads greater than 29.92 use the same trick with your right hand
> and that should point to the High.  We are currently getting nice south west
> winds from a low which is centered in the NW corner of missouri.  Havent
> checked the pressure but it may still indicate the high which has dominated.
>   This probably is intended for strom conditiions where you are very close
> to the center.  Hope it helps.  Bob
> 
> 
> >From: Steve Alm <salm at mn.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: Rhodes <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Weather Forecasting
> >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:40:24 -0600
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I once read an old, sort of folksy way to evaluate/predict the weather,
> >where you stand with your back to the wind or the approaching front or
> >something, and then on your left will be...something.  Obviously I don't
> >remember how it goes.  Does anybody know this one?  It can't be any worse
> >than the meteorologists.  8-)
> >
> >Slim
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:03:24 +0000
> From: jbconnolly at comcast.net
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad
> nauseam
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <021820042003.9516.f5c at comcast.net>
> 
> I do not claim to understand the lake fisherman mentality.  ;-)
> 
> OTOH, if you are going 50+ miles offshore, it's nice to have 2 motors, and
> they don't both have to produce 250 HP and cost $13,000.  In addition to
> providing "get home" backup, you get a lot better control at slow speed for
> station keeping, less plug fouling on the big 2-stroke, and better fuel
> economy loitering over fishing spots.  For further details, ask a real
> fisherman, I usually just drove the boat.  Fuel economy is a consideration,
> even when you jave more than 150 gallons onboard, you can burn that in 6-8
> yours with the big motor.
> 
> Last year, I burned less than 3 gallons of gasoline all summer in my
> 2-stroke 8 HP Tohatsu.  Life was good.
> 
> I think we can all agree on that.
> 
> Jim Connolly
> > Now Jim.
> > Look at the pictures.  Seriously, does that not look
> > stupid.  That boat need a 200 hp motor like I need a
> > hole in my head:-)  That guy is trying to impress
> > someone but it not happening with me.  That 200 hp
> > motor does nothing for helping his fishing.  There was
> > a fishing tournament back in October.  There were pics
> > in the paper of all these overpowered bass boats; but
> > what got me was the pic of the guy that won the
> > tournment - Proudly holding up this big bass (your
> > gonna love this) standing next to his 14 foot tri-hull
> > with a 50 hp motor:-)
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > Maybe on widdle lakes.  Not on the mighty ocean.
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, sometimes even on little lakes.  See attached
> > >
> > > Jim Connolly
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Steve
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:39 AM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> 
> > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad nauseam
> > >
> > > I don't know if you guys know this but If you have a
> > > motor on a fishing boat
> > > & its your main motor but it will not throttle down
> > > enough to move from one
> > > fishing hole to the next - You have the wrong motor
> > > on your
> > > boat:-)Especially when you would have a DC trolling
> > > motor in the water that
> > > you will have to pull up; go to the back of you boat
> > > & put the kicker in the
> > > water because your main motor doesn't idle.
> > > Hummmmmm, But on a bright note;
> > > this is the first time I have seen the 4 stroke
> > > justified like this.  There
> > > is an old sayings around here - Some folks have more
> > > Dollars than Sence.  If
> > > you are wanting to throw money away - then this make
> > > perfectly good sence.
> > > However, you may want to add a 3rd motor on the back
> > > of that boat for when
> > > both the 4 stroke break down:-)  It only money, and
> > > it not mine:-) Steve
> > >
> > >
> 
> > > --- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > Also, on my old Grady White I had a Yamaha 250 v-6
> > > > 2- stroke.  Kicker was a
> > > > Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke for the very reason Russ
> > > Miller said.  Advantage
> > > > of mixing the two types of engine (in this case)
> > > was the 250 had
> > > > automatic oil mixing.  Fuel in tanks was not
> > > mixed, so the 9.9 ran off
> > > > the same fuel tanks as the 250.
> > > >
> > > > FWIW
> > > >
> > > > Jim Connolly
> > > > s/v Inisheer
> > > > 1985 recycled 2003
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Russell
> > > > Miller
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 6:22 PM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad
> > > > nauseam
> > > >
> > > > They need the smaller motor for troling, etc.  The
> > > big one does not
> > > > throttle down enough.
> > > >
> > > > Russ
> > > > s/v Bulldog
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> 
> > > > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:48 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > cycle smoke: ad
> > > > nauseam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > One thing that I would add.  When you go to buy
> > > a
> > > > new motor; pop off
> > > > > the cover and ask yourself - What would I do if
> > > it
> > > > stop working far
> > > > > from shore?  Make you think!!!  FYI- Has
> > > everyone
> > > > seen these Big Bass
> > > > > Boats with those big 4 stroke motor - Have you
> > > > notice they all are
> > > > > carrying nowadays a 9.9 or 25 hp 2 stroke
> > > > > Kicker:-)  Wonder why???????????????
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > It manufactors make the 2 stroke meet
> > > standards;
> > > > how can you say
> > > > > > they will become a thing of the past?  I don't
> > > > know anyone that like
> > > > > > a 4 stroke who has brought one.  Their heavy
> > > and
> 
> > > > most folks can work
> > > > > > on them themselfs.  When you are out on the
> > > > water & your motor goes
> > > > > > out; being able to work on it yourself is more
> > > > important than
> > > > > > polluting the air and/or water.
> > > > > > Besides, it is a well know fact that boat
> > > motors
> > > > are not the big
> > > > > > factor that pollute water.  That like saying
> > > > that smoking is the #1
> > > > > > health problem of people.  Everyone know that
> > > > being FAT is the #1
> > > > > > health problem.  2 stroke will not be done
> > > away
> > > > with except on small
> > > > > > bodies of water (that if the facts were known
> > > > are poluted by things
> > > > > > other that oil)  & Calaforia (where all the
> > > > crazy enviromentists
> > > > > > live).  The reasons most manufactors push 4
> > > > strokes are that they
> > > > > > get all the repair business.  Why fall into
> > > that
> > > > game.
> > > > > >  If you want to throw away your money; give it
> > > > to me; I'll make good
> > > > > > use of it and buy some Bourbon:-) Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> 
> > > > > > --- Jim White <jdwhite at panam.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    The 2 stroke 4 stroke debate is one that
> > > no
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > in sailors circles,
> > > > > > >    but motorboat circles and generates
> > > > spirited
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > lively debate- it's
> > > > > > >    akin to arguing religion or politics. As
> > > a
> > > > > > former
> > > > > > > mechanic turned
> > > > > > >    biologist (marine), I work hand in hand
> > > > with outboards, and
> > > > > > > repair
> > > > > > >    shops at our facility each day. We
> > > probably
> > > > log more water time
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > >    the average individual (I would guess).
> > > > Here
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > some of the things
> > > > > > >    that I have become aware of over the past
> > > > > > several
> > > > > > > years:
> > > > > > >    1. Two stroke engines will very well soon
> > > > be a thing of the
> > > > > > > past.
> > > > > > >    Pressure at the federal level to reduce
> > > > > > emissions
> > > > > > > in the water, as
> 
> > > > > > >    well as the air will cause the death of
> > > the
> > > > 2-stroke. Common
> > > > > > > sense
> > > > > > >    then tells us that it will become
> > > > increasingly difficult to
> > > > > > > obtain
> > > > > > >    parts for those out of manufacture
> > > engines.
> > > > Yes all engines
> > > > > > > pollute,
> > > > > > >    and modern two strokes pollute much less
> > > > than older ones. There
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > >    real fears out there like folks who mix
> > > > their
> > > > > > oil
> > > > > > > in the field (i.e.
> > > > > > >    in the parking lot or out on the water,
> > > and
> > > > > > spill
> > > > > > > directly, or older 2
> > > > > > >    strokes that mix into the gas tank by
> > > human
> > > > addition of the
> > > > > > > oil,
> > > > > > >    running around rich and smokey ("smoke
> > > > pots").....these are all
> > > > > > > well
> > > > > > >    founded fears that the regulators & and
> > > > environmentalists
> > > > > > > (especially)
> > > > > > >    justify in pushing out the good ol' 2
> > > > stroke
> 
> > > > > > >    2. Four stroke engines  are inherently
> > > > heavier than two strokes
> > > > > > > to a
> > > > > > >    certain point in horsepower rating (about
> > > > 90 or so), at which
> > > > > > > time the
> > > > > > >    weight becomes a non-issue. This makes a
> > > > great deal of
> > > > > > > difference to
> > > > > > >    the small engine/small boat owner,
> > > > especially ones like
> > > > > > >    us....Manufacturers are working on
> > > cutting
> > > > the weight of those
> > > > > > > smaller
> > > > > > >    engines though, and the gap is closing
> > > > there.
> > > > > > >    3. Two stroke engines by virtue of
> > > > operation
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > a higher low end
> > > > > > >    torque which can be useful if you're
> > > > powering a boat that needs
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >    "get out of the hole" quickly....usually
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > apply to sailcraft.
> > > > > > >    However newer 4 strokes are quickly
> > > closing
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > gap also.
> > > > > > >    4. According to our shops, four stroke
> > > > engines have fewer
> 
> > > > > > > problems,
> > > > > > >    and see far less down time and many of
> > > our
> > > > > > former
> > > > > > > two stroke engine
> > > > > > >    fishing guides, eco-tour operators, and
> > > > especially sailboat
> > > > > > > owners are
> > > > > > >    now turning to the 4 stroke with this
> > > fact
> > > > as a major selling
> > > > > > > point.
> > > > > > >    However, when a four stroke breaks, it
> > > can
> > > > be a more costly
> > > > > > > repair
> > > > > > >    than a comparable two stroke, but again,
> > > > with design changes in
> > > > > > > both
> > > > > > >    engines, the gap narrows here too.....
> > > > > > >    In any event, our facility has now
> > > plunged
> > > > into the 4 stroke
> > > > > > > world
> > > > > > >    along with the tide of others. BTW I have
> > > a
> > > > > > 2002
> > > > > > > 9.9 Honda 4stroke as
> > > > > > >    auxiliary (notice the previous word)
> > > power
> > > > for
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > newly acquired
> > > > > > >    Rhodes 22, Le Menagerie.
> > > > > > >    Cheers (and sorry for the lengthy
> > > > diatribe/dissertation...
> 
> > > > > > >    JDWHITE
> > > > > > >    At 05:57 AM 02/13/2004 -0800, you wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      Wally
> > > > > > >      I can't remember where I read the
> > > article
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > >      strokes meeting standards; one of my
> > > sail
> > > > mag
> > > > > > >      probably.  But I would think you are
> > > > right.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >      smaller motors don't already; its just
> > > a
> > > > > > matter
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > >      time.
> > > > > > >      Steve
> > > > > > >      --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >      > I had heard that the new cleaner 2
> > > > strokes were only
> > > > > > >      > coming out in the
> > > > > > >      > larger motors. Is this true? I got to
> > > > think that the
> > > > > > >      > technolgy will trickly
> > > > > > >      > down to the smaller motors as well
> > > but
> > > > you never
> > > > > > >      > know.....
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >      > Wally
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >      > >From: "Kroposki"
> 
> > > <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > >      > >Reply-To: kroposki at innova.net,The
> > > > Rhodes
> > > > > > 22
> > > > > > > mail
> > > > > > >      > list
> > > > > > >      > ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > > > > >      > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2
> > > cycle
> > > > vs
> > > > > > 4
> > > > > > > cycle
> > > > > > >      > smoke
> > > > > > >      > >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:42:21
> > > -0500
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >Steve,
> > > > > > >      > >     The issue is that new 2 cycle
> > > > engines
> > > > > > > are not
> > > > > > >      > smoke pots.  They
> > > > > > >      > >more than comply with the current
> > > > environmental
> > > > > > >      > standards and they will
> > > > > > >      > >comply with the new impending
> > > > standards.
> > > > > > >      > >     As for using oil, all gas
> > > motors
> > > > use
> > > > > > > oil and some
> > > > > > >      > of that
> > > > > > >      > >lubricating oil is combusted.  The
> > > > issue
> > > > > > is
> 
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > >      > much of that oil and gas
> > > > > > >      > >is wasted directly into the
> > > > environment.
> > > > > > > The old 2
> > > > > > >      > cycle engines did
> > > > > > >      > >not care.  However, the EPA
> > > standards
> > > > got the
> > > > > > >      > manufacturers attention
> > > > > > >      > >and the new engines do not
> > > > statistically pollute
> > > > > > >      > the environment more
> > > > > > >      > >than 4 cycle engines which also spew
> > > > pollutants.
> > > > > > >      > All gas engines
> > > > > > >      > >pollute.  It is a matter of degree.
> > > > When that
> > > > > > >      > degree is evaluated
> > > > > > >      > >statistically is the difference
> > > > > > significant?
> > > > > > >      > Simply put, will the
> > > > > > >      > >impact difference between the two
> > > > types of motors
> > > > > > >      > on the environment
> > > > > > >      > >really matter?  A few years ago the
> > > > answer was yes,
> > > > > > >      > however, with design
> > > > > > >      > >changes the effects are no longer
> 
> > > > statistically
> > > > > > >      > significant.  They both
> > > > > > >      > >pollute.
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >
> > >
> > > > Ed
> > > > > > K
> > > > > > >      > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >      > >From:
> > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >[[1]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > > > > >      > Behalf Of Steve
> > > > > > >      > >Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004
> > > 9:01
> > > > AM
> > > > > > >      > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > >      > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 2 cycle
> > > > vs 4 cycle
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >I thought the reason they came out
> > > > with 4 strocks
> > > > > > >      > were
> > > > > > >      > >to satify the Non-smoking folks:-)
> > > You
> > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > >      > have
> > > > > > >      > >a smoking part of a Restaurant; and
> > > a
> > > > non-smoking
> > > > > > >      > >part.  You can now have a smoking
> > > part
> > > > of
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > lake; &
> 
> > > > > > >      > a
> > > > > > >      > >non-smoking part:-)You see, the more
> > > > folks that go
> > > > > > >      > 4
> > > > > > >      > >stoke; that means the more folks
> > > that
> > > > can
> > > > > > go
> > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > >      > stoke.
> > > > > > >      > >And the enviroment only get poluted
> > > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > >      > >that we have always done for
> > > > > > years:-)Beside,
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > >      > need a
> > > > > > >      > >little more Globle warming.  Temps
> > > > here
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > in the
> > > > > > >      > >40s.  That evendent that we need to
> > > > polute quite a
> > > > > > >      > bit
> > > > > > >      > >more.  Arkansas need to be warm up
> > > so
> > > > are winter
> > > > > > >      > stay
> > > > > > >      > >above 50 degrees:-)What are you
> > > > thinking,
> > > > > > >      > Michael:-)
> > > > > > >      > >Steve
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >--- Michael Meltzer
> > > > > > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > Well lets try a differ tack for
> > > the
> > > > sessions
> > > > > > >      > version
> > > > > > >      > > > of the question, "So how much
> > > harm
> > > > are you
> > > > > > >      > willing
> > > > > > >      > > > to cause, like: frogs
> > > > > > >      > > > killed, fish unfit to eat, woman
> > > > miscarry,
> > > > > > >      > children
> > > > > > >      > > > born with birth defects, men
> > > going
> > > > impememnt,
> > > > > > >      > etc..
> > > > > > >      > > > so you can selflessy use
> > > > > > >      > > > your 2 stoke". BTW did you beat
> > > > your
> > > > > > wife
> > > > > > > to day
> > > > > > >      > :-)
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > MJM
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >      > > > From: "Kroposki"
> > > > <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > >      > > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> > > 2004
> > > > 9:12 AM
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] 2 cycle
> > > vs
> > > > 4 cycle
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > Rummy,
> > > > > > >      > > > > Here we go again.  I know
> > > better
> > > > than question
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > technical
> > > > > > >      > > > > accuracy and efficacy of
> > > Roger's
> > > > eloquent
> > > > > > >      > > > discussion, but I can lift my
> > > > > > >      > > > > 2 cycle when I have to by
> > > myself.
> > > > > > > Roger
> > > > > > >      > forgets
> > > > > > >      > > > that not everybody has
> > > > > > >      > > > > two robust sons to help.  It is
> > > > the
> > > > > > old
> > > > > > >      > problem of
> > > > > > >      > > > being able to see a
> > > > > > >      > > > > tree when you are in a forest.
> > > > > > >      > > > > Ed K
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >      > > > > From:
> > > > > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >
> 
> > > [[2]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]
> > > > On
> > > > > > >      > > > Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > >      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > 7:52
> > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > >      > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > >      > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > Yamaha
> > > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > Jay,
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > The usual problem with the
> > > water
> > > > pump
> > > > > > >      > impellors on
> > > > > > >      > > > small outboards is
> > > > > > >      > > > > that
> > > > > > >      > > > > they are made from some sort of
> > > > > > rubber.
> > > > > > >  It's
> > > > > > >      > > > really a rather clever
> > > > > > >      > > > > design.
> > > > > > >      > > > > At low speed & at start-up, the
> > > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > vanes
> > > > > > >      > on
> > > > > > >      > > > the impellor touch the
> > > > > > >      > > > > water
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > > pump housing, thus making the
> > > > pump
> > > > > > > positive
> > > > > > >      > > > displacement & self-priming.
> > > > > > >      > > > > At
> > > > > > >      > > > > high speed, the rubber vanes
> > > > deflect
> > > > > > > out of
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > way & ride on top of a
> > > > > > >      > > > > boundary layer of water on the
> > > > wetted
> > > > > > > surface
> > > > > > >      > of
> > > > > > >      > > > the water pump housing.
> > > > > > >      > > > > At
> > > > > > >      > > > > high speed, the vanes don't
> > > > > > experience
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > >      > wear
> > > > > > >      > > > because they are not
> > > > > > >      > > > > touching the pump housing.
> > > This
> > > > > > design
> > > > > > > makes
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > water pump capable of
> > > > > > >      > > > > automatically switching from
> > > > positive
> > > > > > >      > displacement
> > > > > > >      > > > mode to centrifugal
> > > > > > >      > > > > mode
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > > for delivering the high volume
> > > of cooling
> > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > >      > > > required by high speed
> > > > > > >      > > > > operation.
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > So what goes wrong?  Well, if
> > > the
> > > > > > water
> > > > > > > pump
> > > > > > >      > ever
> > > > > > >      > > > runs dry, the rubber
> > > > > > >      > > > > impellor will lose the
> > > > lubrication &
> > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > provided by the water,
> > > > > > >      > > > > overheat, & destroy itself very
> > > quickly, like
> > > > > > >      > in a
> > > > > > >      > > > few seconds!
> > > > > > >      > > > > Exposure to
> > > > > > >      > > > > oil & gasoline in the water
> > > (like
> > > > the
> > > > > > > oil film
> > > > > > >      > > > that laid down by 2-cycle
> > > > > > >      > > > > outboards) will gradually break
> > > > down
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > rubber
> > > > > > >      > > > polymer molecules in the
> > > > > > >      > > > > impellor; leading to
> > > > embrittlement,
> 
> > > > > > > cracking,
> > > > > > >      > and
> > > > > > >      > > > failure.  This is
> > > > > > >      > > > > probably
> > > > > > >      > > > > the single biggest long-term
> > > > failure
> > > > > > >      > mechanism.
> > > > > > >      > > > Pump impellors should
> > > > > > >      > > > > be
> > > > > > >      > > > > routinely replaced every 4
> > > years
> > > > due
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > >      > cause
> > > > > > >      > > > alone.  There is also
> > > > > > >      > > > > another common failure
> > > mechanism related to
> > > > > > >      > > > storage.  When the lower leg
> > > > > > >      > > > > is
> > > > > > >      > > > > lifted free of the water, the
> > > > entire
> > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > system drains down.  This
> > > > > > >      > > > > is
> > > > > > >      > > > > why the water pump needs to be
> > > self-priming at
> > > > > > >      > > > start-up.  Even fresh
> > > > > > >      > > > > water &
> > > > > > >      > > > > especially ocean water, has a
> > > > certain
> > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > >      > of
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > dissolved mineral salts
> > > > > > >      > > > > in
> > > > > > >      > > > > it.  When the cooling system
> > > > drains
> > > > > > > down, a
> > > > > > >      > small
> > > > > > >      > > > amount of water is
> > > > > > >      > > > > left
> > > > > > >      > > > > trapped in between the ends of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > vanes on
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > water pump impellor &
> > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > > > > aluminum pump housing.  When
> > > this
> > > > > > water
> > > > > > >      > eventually
> > > > > > >      > > > evaporates in
> > > > > > >      > > > > storage,
> > > > > > >      > > > > the impellor vanes can be
> > > bonded
> > > > by
> > > > > > > salt
> > > > > > >      > crystals
> > > > > > >      > > > to the pump housing.
> > > > > > >      > > > > Depending upon how strong this
> > > > bond
> > > > > > is,
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > rubber
> > > > > > >      > > > impellor can be
> > > > > > >      > > > > damaged
> > > > > > >      > > > > the next time the engine is
> > > > started
> 
> > > > > > > when the
> > > > > > >      > vanes
> > > > > > >      > > > are ripped free of
> > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > > > > salt crystals.  In addition,
> > > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > 1st few
> > > > > > >      > > > minutes of operation,
> > > > > > >      > > > > before
> > > > > > >      > > > > the salt crystals dissolve,
> > > they
> > > > form
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > >      > relatively
> > > > > > >      > > > rough surface on the
> > > > > > >      > > > > water pump housing that the
> > > > rubber
> > > > > > > vanes have
> > > > > > >      > to
> > > > > > >      > > > run over on every
> > > > > > >      > > > > revolution.  Finally, there can
> > > > be
> > > > > > > corrosion
> > > > > > >      > > > issues with moist salt
> > > > > > >      > > > > crystals
> > > > > > >      > > > > in long-term contact with the
> > > > > > aluminum
> > > > > > > pump
> > > > > > >      > > > housing in this scenario.
> > > > > > >      > > > > In
> > > > > > >      > > > > salt water, it's considered
> > > good practice to
> > > > > > >      > fresh
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > water flush the
> > > > > > >      > > > > cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > > system after every use &
> > > > certainly
> > > > > > > before
> > > > > > >      > > > long-term storage.  After
> > > > > > >      > > > > long-term storage, it wouldn't
> > > > hurt
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > fresh
> > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > >      > > > flush the cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > > system
> > > > > > >      > > > > prior to start-up.  As part of
> > > my outboard
> > > > > > >      > > > winterizing proceedure, I
> > > > > > >      > > > > flush
> > > > > > >      > > > > propylene gylcol potable
> > > > antifreeze
> > > > > > (RV
> > > > > > > "red
> > > > > > >      > pop")
> > > > > > >      > > > thru the cooling
> > > > > > >      > > > > systems
> > > > > > >      > > > > of my outboards.  propylene
> > > > glycol
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > >      > prevent
> > > > > > >      > > > the build-up of salt
> > > > > > >      > > > > crystals in-between the vanes
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > water
> > > > > > >      > pump
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > housing.  During the
> > > > > > >      > > > > boating season, on every
> > > > start-up, I
> > > > > > > gently
> > > > > > >      > pull
> > > > > > >      > > > the outboard thru with
> > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > > > > pull cord prior to starting it
> > > to
> > > > > > break
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > >      > > > pump impellor free &
> > > > > > >      > > > > give
> > > > > > >      > > > > the engine several minutes of
> > > low
> > > > > > speed
> > > > > > >      > warm-up.
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > The result, the only water pump
> > > > I've
> > > > > > > ever had
> > > > > > >      > fail
> > > > > > >      > > > on any of my
> > > > > > >      > > > > outboards in
> > > > > > >      > > > > 25+ years of boating was the
> > > time
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > >      > younger
> > > > > > >      > > > son Gary ran the
> > > > > > >      > > > > inflatable dingy & Honda 9.9 hp
> > > outboard up on
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > beach with the engine
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > > at
> > > > > > >      > > > > full throttle.  The water pump
> > > > > > impellor
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > >      > burnt
> > > > > > >      > > > to a crisp!
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > >      > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > > >      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >      > > > > From: "Michael Meltzer"
> > > > > > >      > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > >      > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > 2:25
> > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > >      > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > Yamaha
> > > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > sounds like overkill and make
> > > > work,
> > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > >      > the
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > impeller very 4 years,
> > > > > > >      > > > > but
> > > > > > >      > > > > the complete pump, nah. you are
> > > > only
> > > > > > > putting
> > > > > > >      > 25-50
> > > > > > >      > > > hours on
> > > > > > >      > > > > > the motor every year, one
> > > thing
> > > > you
> > > > > > > do have
> > > > > > >      > to
> > > > > > >      > > > watch is salt on the
> > > > > > >      > > > > thermostat(and blow the
> > > pelages,
> > > > > > clean
> > > > > > > the pee
> > > > > > >      > tub
> > > > > > >      > > > yearly), is
> > > > > > >      > > > > > one of the few parts on the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > > that is
> > > > > > >      > not
> > > > > > >      > > > rust proof, time will
> > > > > > >      > > > > get
> > > > > > >      > > > > it and they need to be replace
> > > > every
> > > > > > > two
> > > > > > >      > years,
> > > > > > >      > > > luckily it
> > > > > > >      > > > > > is also a simple job that you
> > > > can
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > >      > yourself.
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > MJM
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >      > > > > > From: "Jay Friedland"
> > > > > > > <a.jayf at verizon.net>
> > > > > > >      > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >      > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > > > 11:25 AM
> > > > > > >      > > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list]
> > > Yamaha
> > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > Folks,
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > My ob service guy says Yam
> > > recommends
> > > > > > >      > > > replacing the water pump
> > > > > > >      > > > > assembly
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > every year. The motor is
> > > 2001
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > >      > > > first year in service.
> > > > > > >      > > > > I'm
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > in salt water 9-10 months,
> > > occasionally
> > > > > > >      > flush
> 
> > > > > > >      > > > with ear muffs (once a
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > month), and end of season
> > > run
> > > > it
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > >      > barrel
> > > > > > >      > > > of fresh water for 1/2
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > hour (alos to burn off
> > > > deposits,
> > > > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > Anybody offer best
> > > > suggestions on
> > > > > > >      > proceeding
> > > > > > >      > > > with this replacement
> > > > > > >      > > > > or
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > any other winter routine?
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >   Thanks, Jay
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > > > > Use
> > > > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > > > [3]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> 
> > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > > > Use
> > > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > > > [4]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > > > [5]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > > > [6]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> 
> > > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > >[7]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >__________________________________
> > > > > > >      > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > >      > >Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast
> > > > by
> > > > > > > filing
> > > > > > >      > online.
> > > > > > >      >
> > > >[8]http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > [9]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > Help?
> > > > > > >      > [10]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > Keep up with high-tech trends here at
> > > > > > "Hook'd
> 
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > >      > Technology."
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > [11]http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > >      [12]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >      __________________________________
> > > > > > >      Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > >      Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by
> > > > > > filing
> > > > > > > online.
> > > > > > >      [13]http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > >      Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > > [14]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > References
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    1.
> > > > mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > >    2.
> > > > mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > >    3. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >    4. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
> > > > > > >    5. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >    6. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >    7. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >    8. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > >    9. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >   10. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >   11.
> > > > > > http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > > > >   12. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >   13. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > >   14. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> > > online.
> > > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> 
> > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> > > > online.
> > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> > > online.
> > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > Name: 03pg10_Lund2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size:
> > 87545
> > > bytes Desc: not available
> > > Url:
> > >
> 
> >
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200402/17/03pg10_Lund2
> jpg
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:18:24 EST
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad
> nauseam
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Message-ID: <7d.470ca201.2d6530a0 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> Steve,
> You are absolutely correct about the instability of the Bass Boats. My wife
> and I had the luxury of being out on our Hobie 16 one windless afternoon and
> we
> were getting bounced around pretty good by the large three foot rollers
> coming off of passing cruisers plowing thru the water. Sure enough, along
> comes one
> of those bass herders in a hurry to get to the perfect spot. One of my
> gripes
> about these guys is that few, if any, have any experience with a boat prior
> to owning their bats out of hell boats. Anywho, this guy and his partner hit
> one of these wakes broadside. The bass boat rolled up the wave and went
> completely over. A perfect barrel roll. Landed right side up. Nothing fell
> out of the
> boat, not even the fisherman. It happened so fast we couldn't believe what
> we
> had just seen. Those two sat there for a long time. No doubt cleaning out
> their shorts. When they left, it was at a considerably slower speed.
> 
> Rummy
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:26:22 -0800 (PST)
> From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad
> nauseam
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <20040218212622.1378.qmail at web14905.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Yeah, Jim, I concur with that.  I have a one 6 gallon
> tank on my boat & never use much over half.  That why
> I don't worry about fuel econcomy or would factor that
> into buying a new motor.  With my 4.5 hp Johnson, I
> spend less that 10 bucks a year on gas for my boat &
> that the pre-mix stuff I buy from the dock.  It would
> be cheaper if I would buy it myself & mix it but what
> the hell - a man got to splurge ones in a while:-)
> Also, the manager of our dock is always complaining
> that us sailboaters don't spend enough money at the
> marina.  So I guess it don't hurt for me to buy gas
> from him, ones a year:-)
> Steve
> 
> 
> --- jbconnolly at comcast.net wrote:
> > I do not claim to understand the lake fisherman
> > mentality.  ;-)
> >
> > OTOH, if you are going 50+ miles offshore, it's nice
> > to have 2 motors, and they don't both have to
> > produce 250 HP and cost $13,000.  In addition to
> > providing "get home" backup, you get a lot better
> > control at slow speed for station keeping, less plug
> > fouling on the big 2-stroke, and better fuel economy
> > loitering over fishing spots.  For further details,
> > ask a real fisherman, I usually just drove the boat.
> >  Fuel economy is a consideration, even when you jave
> > more than 150 gallons onboard, you can burn that in
> > 6-8 yours with the big motor.
> >
> > Last year, I burned less than 3 gallons of gasoline
> > all summer in my 2-stroke 8 HP Tohatsu.  Life was
> > good.
> >
> > I think we can all agree on that.
> >
> > Jim Connolly
> > > Now Jim.
> > > Look at the pictures.  Seriously, does that not
> > look
> > > stupid.  That boat need a 200 hp motor like I need
> > a
> > > hole in my head:-)  That guy is trying to impress
> > > someone but it not happening with me.  That 200 hp
> > > motor does nothing for helping his fishing.  There
> > was
> > > a fishing tournament back in October.  There were
> > pics
> > > in the paper of all these overpowered bass boats;
> > but
> > > what got me was the pic of the guy that won the
> > > tournment - Proudly holding up this big bass (your
> > > gonna love this) standing next to his 14 foot
> > tri-hull
> > > with a 50 hp motor:-)
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > Maybe on widdle lakes.  Not on the mighty ocean.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OK, sometimes even on little lakes.  See
> > attached
> > > >
> > > > Jim Connolly
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > > Behalf Of Steve
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:39 AM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >
> > > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4
> > > > cycle smoke: ad nauseam
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if you guys know this but If you
> > have a
> > > > motor on a fishing boat
> > > > & its your main motor but it will not throttle
> > down
> > > > enough to move from one
> > > > fishing hole to the next - You have the wrong
> > motor
> > > > on your
> > > > boat:-)Especially when you would have a DC
> > trolling
> > > > motor in the water that
> > > > you will have to pull up; go to the back of you
> > boat
> > > > & put the kicker in the
> > > > water because your main motor doesn't idle.
> > > > Hummmmmm, But on a bright note;
> > > > this is the first time I have seen the 4 stroke
> > > > justified like this.  There
> > > > is an old sayings around here - Some folks have
> > more
> > > > Dollars than Sence.  If
> > > > you are wanting to throw money away - then this
> > make
> > > > perfectly good sence.
> > > > However, you may want to add a 3rd motor on the
> > back
> > > > of that boat for when
> > > > both the 4 stroke break down:-)  It only money,
> > and
> > > > it not mine:-) Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > > --- Jim Connolly <jbconnolly at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > > Also, on my old Grady White I had a Yamaha 250
> > v-6
> > > > > 2- stroke.  Kicker was a
> > > > > Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke for the very reason Russ
> > > > Miller said.  Advantage
> > > > > of mixing the two types of engine (in this
> > case)
> > > > was the 250 had
> > > > > automatic oil mixing.  Fuel in tanks was not
> > > > mixed, so the 9.9 ran off
> > > > > the same fuel tanks as the 250.
> > > > >
> > > > > FWIW
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Connolly
> > > > > s/v Inisheer
> > > > > 1985 recycled 2003
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > > Behalf Of Russell
> > > > > Miller
> > > > > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 6:22 PM
> > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs
> > 4
> > > > cycle smoke: ad
> > > > > nauseam
> > > > >
> > > > > They need the smaller motor for troling, etc.
> > The
> > > > big one does not
> > > > > throttle down enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > Russ
> > > > > s/v Bulldog
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > > > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 10:48 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs
> > 4
> > > > cycle smoke: ad
> > > > > nauseam
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > One thing that I would add.  When you go to
> > buy
> > > > a
> > > > > new motor; pop off
> > > > > > the cover and ask yourself - What would I do
> > if
> > > > it
> > > > > stop working far
> > > > > > from shore?  Make you think!!!  FYI- Has
> > > > everyone
> > > > > seen these Big Bass
> > > > > > Boats with those big 4 stroke motor - Have
> > you
> > > > > notice they all are
> > > > > > carrying nowadays a 9.9 or 25 hp 2 stroke
> > > > > > Kicker:-)  Wonder why???????????????
> > > > > > Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > It manufactors make the 2 stroke meet
> > > > standards;
> > > > > how can you say
> > > > > > > they will become a thing of the past?  I
> > don't
> > > > > know anyone that like
> > > > > > > a 4 stroke who has brought one.  Their
> > heavy
> > > > and
> >
> > > > > most folks can work
> > > > > > > on them themselfs.  When you are out on
> > the
> > > > > water & your motor goes
> > > > > > > out; being able to work on it yourself is
> > more
> > > > > important than
> > > > > > > polluting the air and/or water.
> > > > > > > Besides, it is a well know fact that boat
> > > > motors
> > > > > are not the big
> > > > > > > factor that pollute water.  That like
> > saying
> > > > > that smoking is the #1
> > > > > > > health problem of people.  Everyone know
> > that
> > > > > being FAT is the #1
> > > > > > > health problem.  2 stroke will not be done
> > > > away
> > > > > with except on small
> > > > > > > bodies of water (that if the facts were
> > known
> > > > > are poluted by things
> > > > > > > other that oil)  & Calaforia (where all
> > the
> > > > > crazy enviromentists
> > > > > > > live).  The reasons most manufactors push
> > 4
> > > > > strokes are that they
> > > > > > > get all the repair business.  Why fall
> > into
> > > > that
> > > > > game.
> > > > > > >  If you want to throw away your money;
> > give it
> > > > > to me; I'll make good
> > > > > > > use of it and buy some Bourbon:-) Steve
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > --- Jim White <jdwhite at panam.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    The 2 stroke 4 stroke debate is one
> > that
> > > > no
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > in sailors circles,
> > > > > > > >    but motorboat circles and generates
> > > > > spirited
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > lively debate- it's
> > > > > > > >    akin to arguing religion or politics.
> > As
> > > > a
> > > > > > > former
> > > > > > > > mechanic turned
> > > > > > > >    biologist (marine), I work hand in
> > hand
> > > > > with outboards, and
> > > > > > > > repair
> > > > > > > >    shops at our facility each day. We
> > > > probably
> > > > > log more water time
> > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > >    the average individual (I would
> > guess).
> > > > > Here
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > some of the things
> > > > > > > >    that I have become aware of over the
> > past
> > > > > > > several
> > > > > > > > years:
> > > > > > > >    1. Two stroke engines will very well
> > soon
> > > > > be a thing of the
> > > > > > > > past.
> > > > > > > >    Pressure at the federal level to
> > reduce
> > > > > > > emissions
> > > > > > > > in the water, as
> >
> > > > > > > >    well as the air will cause the death
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > 2-stroke. Common
> > > > > > > > sense
> > > > > > > >    then tells us that it will become
> > > > > increasingly difficult to
> > > > > > > > obtain
> > > > > > > >    parts for those out of manufacture
> > > > engines.
> > > > > Yes all engines
> > > > > > > > pollute,
> > > > > > > >    and modern two strokes pollute much
> > less
> > > > > than older ones. There
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > >    real fears out there like folks who
> > mix
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > oil
> > > > > > > > in the field (i.e.
> > > > > > > >    in the parking lot or out on the
> > water,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > spill
> > > > > > > > directly, or older 2
> > > > > > > >    strokes that mix into the gas tank by
> > > > human
> > > > > addition of the
> > > > > > > > oil,
> > > > > > > >    running around rich and smokey
> > ("smoke
> > > > > pots").....these are all
> > > > > > > > well
> > > > > > > >    founded fears that the regulators &
> > and
> > > > > environmentalists
> > > > > > > > (especially)
> > > > > > > >    justify in pushing out the good ol' 2
> > > > > stroke
> >
> > > > > > > >    2. Four stroke engines  are
> > inherently
> > > > > heavier than two strokes
> > > > > > > > to a
> > > > > > > >    certain point in horsepower rating
> > (about
> > > > > 90 or so), at which
> > > > > > > > time the
> > > > > > > >    weight becomes a non-issue. This
> > makes a
> > > > > great deal of
> > > > > > > > difference to
> > > > > > > >    the small engine/small boat owner,
> > > > > especially ones like
> > > > > > > >    us....Manufacturers are working on
> > > > cutting
> > > > > the weight of those
> > > > > > > > smaller
> > > > > > > >    engines though, and the gap is
> > closing
> > > > > there.
> > > > > > > >    3. Two stroke engines by virtue of
> > > > > operation
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > a higher low end
> > > > > > > >    torque which can be useful if you're
> > > > > powering a boat that needs
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >    "get out of the hole"
> > quickly....usually
> > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > apply to sailcraft.
> > > > > > > >    However newer 4 strokes are quickly
> > > > closing
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > gap also.
> > > > > > > >    4. According to our shops, four
> > stroke
> > > > > engines have fewer
> >
> > > > > > > > problems,
> > > > > > > >    and see far less down time and many
> > of
> > > > our
> > > > > > > former
> > > > > > > > two stroke engine
> > > > > > > >    fishing guides, eco-tour operators,
> > and
> > > > > especially sailboat
> > > > > > > > owners are
> > > > > > > >    now turning to the 4 stroke with this
> > > > fact
> > > > > as a major selling
> > > > > > > > point.
> > > > > > > >    However, when a four stroke breaks,
> > it
> > > > can
> > > > > be a more costly
> > > > > > > > repair
> > > > > > > >    than a comparable two stroke, but
> > again,
> > > > > with design changes in
> > > > > > > > both
> > > > > > > >    engines, the gap narrows here
> > too.....
> > > > > > > >    In any event, our facility has now
> > > > plunged
> > > > > into the 4 stroke
> > > > > > > > world
> > > > > > > >    along with the tide of others. BTW I
> > have
> > > > a
> > > > > > > 2002
> > > > > > > > 9.9 Honda 4stroke as
> > > > > > > >    auxiliary (notice the previous word)
> > > > power
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > newly acquired
> > > > > > > >    Rhodes 22, Le Menagerie.
> > > > > > > >    Cheers (and sorry for the lengthy
> > > > > diatribe/dissertation...
> >
> > > > > > > >    JDWHITE
> > > > > > > >    At 05:57 AM 02/13/2004 -0800, you
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      Wally
> > > > > > > >      I can't remember where I read the
> > > > article
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > > >      strokes meeting standards; one of
> > my
> > > > sail
> > > > > mag
> > > > > > > >      probably.  But I would think you
> > are
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >      smaller motors don't already; its
> > just
> > > > a
> > > > > > > matter
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >      time.
> > > > > > > >      Steve
> > > > > > > >      --- Wally Buck
> > <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >      > I had heard that the new cleaner
> > 2
> > > > > strokes were only
> > > > > > > >      > coming out in the
> > > > > > > >      > larger motors. Is this true? I
> > got to
> > > > > think that the
> > > > > > > >      > technolgy will trickly
> > > > > > > >      > down to the smaller motors as
> > well
> > > > but
> > > > > you never
> > > > > > > >      > know.....
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >      > Wally
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >      > >From: "Kroposki"
> >
> > > > <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > > >      > >Reply-To:
> > kroposki at innova.net,The
> > > > > Rhodes
> > > > > > > 22
> > > > > > > > mail
> > > > > > > >      > list
> > > > > > > >      > ><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > >      > >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> > > > > > > >      > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > >      > >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2
> > > > cycle
> > > > > vs
> > > > > > > 4
> > > > > > > > cycle
> > > > > > > >      > smoke
> > > > > > > >      > >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:42:21
> > > > -0500
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      > >Steve,
> > > > > > > >      > >     The issue is that new 2
> > cycle
> > > > > engines
> > > > > > > > are not
> > > > > > > >      > smoke pots.  They
> > > > > > > >      > >more than comply with the
> > current
> > > > > environmental
> > > > > > > >      > standards and they will
> > > > > > > >      > >comply with the new impending
> > > > > standards.
> > > > > > > >      > >     As for using oil, all gas
> > > > motors
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > > oil and some
> > > > > > > >      > of that
> > > > > > > >      > >lubricating oil is combusted.
> > The
> > > > > issue
> > > > > > > is
> >
> > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > >      > much of that oil and gas
> > > > > > > >      > >is wasted directly into the
> > > > > environment.
> > > > > > > > The old 2
> > > > > > > >      > cycle engines did
> > > > > > > >      > >not care.  However, the EPA
> > > > standards
> > > > > got the
> > > > > > > >      > manufacturers attention
> > > > > > > >      > >and the new engines do not
> > > > > statistically pollute
> > > > > > > >      > the environment more
> > > > > > > >      > >than 4 cycle engines which also
> > spew
> > > > > pollutants.
> > > > > > > >      > All gas engines
> > > > > > > >      > >pollute.  It is a matter of
> > degree.
> > > > > When that
> > > > > > > >      > degree is evaluated
> > > > > > > >      > >statistically is the difference
> > > > > > > significant?
> > > > > > > >      > Simply put, will the
> > > > > > > >      > >impact difference between the
> > two
> > > > > types of motors
> > > > > > > >      > on the environment
> > > > > > > >      > >really matter?  A few years ago
> > the
> > > > > answer was yes,
> > > > > > > >      > however, with design
> > > > > > > >      > >changes the effects are no
> > longer
> >
> > > > > statistically
> > > > > > > >      > significant.  They both
> > > > > > > >      > >pollute.
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > > Ed
> > > > > > > K
> > > > > > > >      > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > >      > >From:
> > > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >[[1]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > > > > > >      > Behalf Of Steve
> > > > > > > >      > >Sent: Thursday, February 12,
> > 2004
> > > > 9:01
> > > > > AM
> > > > > > > >      > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > > >      > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] 2
> > cycle
> > > > > vs 4 cycle
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      > >I thought the reason they came
> > out
> > > > > with 4 strocks
> > > > > > > >      > were
> > > > > > > >      > >to satify the Non-smoking
> > folks:-)
> > > > You
> > > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > >      > have
> > > > > > > >      > >a smoking part of a Restaurant;
> > and
> > > > a
> > > > > non-smoking
> > > > > > > >      > >part.  You can now have a
> > smoking
> > > > part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > lake; &
> >
> > > > > > > >      > a
> > > > > > > >      > >non-smoking part:-)You see, the
> > more
> > > > > folks that go
> > > > > > > >      > 4
> > > > > > > >      > >stoke; that means the more folks
> > > > that
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > 2
> > > > > > > >      > stoke.
> > > > > > > >      > >And the enviroment only get
> > poluted
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > > >      > >that we have always done for
> > > > > > > years:-)Beside,
> > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > >      > need a
> > > > > > > >      > >little more Globle warming.
> > Temps
> > > > > here
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > in the
> > > > > > > >      > >40s.  That evendent that we need
> > to
> > > > > polute quite a
> > > > > > > >      > bit
> > > > > > > >      > >more.  Arkansas need to be warm
> > up
> > > > so
> > > > > are winter
> > > > > > > >      > stay
> > > > > > > >      > >above 50 degrees:-)What are you
> > > > > thinking,
> > > > > > > >      > Michael:-)
> > > > > > > >      > >Steve
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      > >--- Michael Meltzer
> > > > > > > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > Well lets try a differ tack
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > sessions
> > > > > > > >      > version
> > > > > > > >      > > > of the question, "So how much
> > > > harm
> > > > > are you
> > > > > > > >      > willing
> > > > > > > >      > > > to cause, like: frogs
> > > > > > > >      > > > killed, fish unfit to eat,
> > woman
> > > > > miscarry,
> > > > > > > >      > children
> > > > > > > >      > > > born with birth defects, men
> > > > going
> > > > > impememnt,
> > > > > > > >      > etc..
> > > > > > > >      > > > so you can selflessy use
> > > > > > > >      > > > your 2 stoke". BTW did you
> > beat
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > wife
> > > > > > > > to day
> > > > > > > >      > :-)
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > MJM
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >      > > > From: "Kroposki"
> > > > > <kroposki at innova.net>
> > > > > > > >      > > > To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail
> > list'"
> > > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > >      > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11,
> > > > 2004
> > > > > 9:12 AM
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] 2
> > cycle
> > > > vs
> > > > > 4 cycle
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Rummy,
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Here we go again.  I know
> > > > better
> > > > > than question
> > > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > technical
> > > > > > > >      > > > > accuracy and efficacy of
> > > > Roger's
> > > > > eloquent
> > > > > > > >      > > > discussion, but I can lift my
> > > > > > > >      > > > > 2 cycle when I have to by
> > > > myself.
> > > > > > > > Roger
> > > > > > > >      > forgets
> > > > > > > >      > > > that not everybody has
> > > > > > > >      > > > > two robust sons to help.
> > It is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > old
> > > > > > > >      > problem of
> > > > > > > >      > > > being able to see a
> > > > > > > >      > > > > tree when you are in a
> > forest.
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Ed K
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > >      > > > > From:
> > > > > > > > rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > > > [[2]mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]
> > > > > On
> > > > > > > >      > > > Behalf Of Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February
> > 11,
> > > > > 2004
> > > > > > > 7:52
> > > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > > >      > > > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Subject: Re:
> > [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > > Yamaha
> > > > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Jay,
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > The usual problem with the
> > > > water
> > > > > pump
> > > > > > > >      > impellors on
> > > > > > > >      > > > small outboards is
> > > > > > > >      > > > > that
> > > > > > > >      > > > > they are made from some
> > sort of
> > > > > > > rubber.
> > > > > > > >  It's
> > > > > > > >      > > > really a rather clever
> > > > > > > >      > > > > design.
> > > > > > > >      > > > > At low speed & at start-up,
> > the
> > > > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > > vanes
> > > > > > > >      > on
> > > > > > > >      > > > the impellor touch the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > water
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > pump housing, thus making
> > the
> > > > > pump
> > > > > > > > positive
> > > > > > > >      > > > displacement & self-priming.
> > > > > > > >      > > > > At
> > > > > > > >      > > > > high speed, the rubber
> > vanes
> > > > > deflect
> > > > > > > > out of
> > > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > way & ride on top of a
> > > > > > > >      > > > > boundary layer of water on
> > the
> > > > > wetted
> > > > > > > > surface
> > > > > > > >      > of
> > > > > > > >      > > > the water pump housing.
> > > > > > > >      > > > > At
> > > > > > > >      > > > > high speed, the vanes don't
> > > > > > > experience
> > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > >      > wear
> > > > > > > >      > > > because they are not
> > > > > > > >      > > > > touching the pump housing.
> > > > This
> > > > > > > design
> > > > > > > > makes
> > > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > water pump capable of
> > > > > > > >      > > > > automatically switching
> > from
> > > > > positive
> > > > > > > >      > displacement
> > > > > > > >      > > > mode to centrifugal
> > > > > > > >      > > > > mode
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > for delivering the high
> > volume
> > > > of cooling
> > > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > > >      > > > required by high speed
> > > > > > > >      > > > > operation.
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > So what goes wrong?  Well,
> > if
> > > > the
> > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > pump
> > > > > > > >      > ever
> > > > > > > >      > > > runs dry, the rubber
> > > > > > > >      > > > > impellor will lose the
> > > > > lubrication &
> > > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > > >      > > > provided by the water,
> > > > > > > >      > > > > overheat, & destroy itself
> > very
> > > > quickly, like
> > > > > > > >      > in a
> > > > > > > >      > > > few seconds!
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Exposure to
> > > > > > > >      > > > > oil & gasoline in the water
> > > > (like
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > oil film
> > > > > > > >      > > > that laid down by 2-cycle
> > > > > > > >      > > > > outboards) will gradually
> > break
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >      > rubber
> > > > > > > >      > > > polymer molecules in the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > impellor; leading to
> > > > > embrittlement,
> >
> > > > > > > > cracking,
> > > > > > > >      > and
> > > > > > > >      > > > failure.  This is
> > > > > > > >      > > > > probably
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the single biggest
> > long-term
> > > > > failure
> > > > > > > >      > mechanism.
> > > > > > > >      > > > Pump impellors should
> > > > > > > >      > > > > be
> > > > > > > >      > > > > routinely replaced every 4
> > > > years
> > > > > due
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > >      > cause
> > > > > > > >      > > > alone.  There is also
> > > > > > > >      > > > > another common failure
> > > > mechanism related to
> > > > > > > >      > > > storage.  When the lower leg
> > > > > > > >      > > > > is
> > > > > > > >      > > > > lifted free of the water,
> > the
> > > > > entire
> > > > > > > > cooling
> > > > > > > >      > > > system drains down.  This
> > > > > > > >      > > > > is
> > > > > > > >      > > > > why the water pump needs to
> > be
> > > > self-priming at
> > > > > > > >      > > > start-up.  Even fresh
> > > > > > > >      > > > > water &
> > > > > > > >      > > > > especially ocean water, has
> > a
> > > > > certain
> > > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > > >      > of
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > dissolved mineral salts
> > > > > > > >      > > > > in
> > > > > > > >      > > > > it.  When the cooling
> > system
> > > > > drains
> > > > > > > > down, a
> > > > > > > >      > small
> > > > > > > >      > > > amount of water is
> > > > > > > >      > > > > left
> > > > > > > >      > > > > trapped in between the ends
> > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > vanes on
> > > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > water pump impellor &
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > aluminum pump housing.
> > When
> > > > this
> > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > >      > eventually
> > > > > > > >      > > > evaporates in
> > > > > > > >      > > > > storage,
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the impellor vanes can be
> > > > bonded
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > > salt
> > > > > > > >      > crystals
> > > > > > > >      > > > to the pump housing.
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Depending upon how strong
> > this
> > > > > bond
> > > > > > > is,
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >      > rubber
> > > > > > > >      > > > impellor can be
> > > > > > > >      > > > > damaged
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the next time the engine is
> > > > > started
> >
> > > > > > > > when the
> > > > > > > >      > vanes
> > > > > > > >      > > > are ripped free of
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > salt crystals.  In
> > addition,
> > > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > 1st few
> > > > > > > >      > > > minutes of operation,
> > > > > > > >      > > > > before
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the salt crystals dissolve,
> > > > they
> > > > > form
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > >      > relatively
> > > > > > > >      > > > rough surface on the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > water pump housing that the
> > > > > rubber
> > > > > > > > vanes have
> > > > > > > >      > to
> > > > > > > >      > > > run over on every
> > > > > > > >      > > > > revolution.  Finally, there
> > can
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > corrosion
> > > > > > > >      > > > issues with moist salt
> > > > > > > >      > > > > crystals
> > > > > > > >      > > > > in long-term contact with
> > the
> > > > > > > aluminum
> > > > > > > > pump
> > > > > > > >      > > > housing in this scenario.
> > > > > > > >      > > > > In
> > > > > > > >      > > > > salt water, it's considered
> > > > good practice to
> > > > > > > >      > fresh
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > water flush the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > cooling
> > > > > > > >      > > > > system after every use &
> > > > > certainly
> > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > >      > > > long-term storage.  After
> > > > > > > >      > > > > long-term storage, it
> > wouldn't
> > > > > hurt
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > fresh
> > > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > > >      > > > flush the cooling
> > > > > > > >      > > > > system
> > > > > > > >      > > > > prior to start-up.  As part
> > of
> > > > my outboard
> > > > > > > >      > > > winterizing proceedure, I
> > > > > > > >      > > > > flush
> > > > > > > >      > > > > propylene gylcol potable
> > > > > antifreeze
> > > > > > > (RV
> > > > > > > > "red
> > > > > > > >      > pop")
> > > > > > > >      > > > thru the cooling
> > > > > > > >      > > > > systems
> > > > > > > >      > > > > of my outboards.  propylene
> > > > > glycol
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > >      > prevent
> > > > > > > >      > > > the build-up of salt
> > > > > > > >      > > > > crystals in-between the
> > vanes
> > > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > water
> > > > > > > >      > pump
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > housing.  During the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > boating season, on every
> > > > > start-up, I
> > > > > > > > gently
> > > > > > > >      > pull
> > > > > > > >      > > > the outboard thru with
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > pull cord prior to starting
> > it
> > > > to
> > > > > > > break
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >      > water
> > > > > > > >      > > > pump impellor free &
> > > > > > > >      > > > > give
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the engine several minutes
> > of
> > > > low
> > > > > > > speed
> > > > > > > >      > warm-up.
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > The result, the only water
> > pump
> > > > > I've
> > > > > > > > ever had
> > > > > > > >      > fail
> > > > > > > >      > > > on any of my
> > > > > > > >      > > > > outboards in
> > > > > > > >      > > > > 25+ years of boating was
> > the
> > > > time
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > >      > younger
> > > > > > > >      > > > son Gary ran the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > inflatable dingy & Honda
> > 9.9 hp
> > > > outboard up on
> > > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > beach with the engine
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > at
> > > > > > > >      > > > > full throttle.  The water
> > pump
> > > > > > > impellor
> > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > >      > burnt
> > > > > > > >      > > > to a crisp!
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > > >      > > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > > > >      > > > > ----- Original Message
> > -----
> > > > > > > >      > > > > From: "Michael Meltzer"
> > > > > > > >      > <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
> > > > > > > >      > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail
> > list"
> > > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February
> > 11,
> > > > > 2004
> > > > > > > 2:25
> > > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Subject: Re:
> > [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > > Yamaha
> > > > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > sounds like overkill and
> > make
> > > > > work,
> > > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > >      > the
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > impeller very 4 years,
> > > > > > > >      > > > > but
> > > > > > > >      > > > > the complete pump, nah. you
> > are
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > putting
> > > > > > > >      > 25-50
> > > > > > > >      > > > hours on
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > the motor every year, one
> > > > thing
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > do have
> > > > > > > >      > to
> > > > > > > >      > > > watch is salt on the
> > > > > > > >      > > > > thermostat(and blow the
> > > > pelages,
> > > > > > > clean
> > > > > > > > the pee
> > > > > > > >      > tub
> > > > > > > >      > > > yearly), is
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > one of the few parts on
> > the
> > > > > engine
> > > > > > > > that is
> > > > > > > >      > not
> > > > > > > >      > > > rust proof, time will
> > > > > > > >      > > > > get
> > > > > > > >      > > > > it and they need to be
> > replace
> > > > > every
> > > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > >      > years,
> > > > > > > >      > > > luckily it
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > is also a simple job that
> > you
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > >      > yourself.
> > > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > MJM
> > > > > > > >      > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > ----- Original Message
> > -----
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > From: "Jay Friedland"
> > > > > > > > <a.jayf at verizon.net>
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail
> > list"
> > > > > > > >      > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February
> > 10,
> > > > > 2004
> > > > > > > > 11:25 AM
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list]
> > > > Yamaha
> > > > > 9.9
> > > > > > > > Water
> > > > > > > >      > Pump
> > > > > > > >      > > > Replacement
> > > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > Folks,
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > My ob service guy says
> > Yam
> > > > recommends
> > > > > > > >      > > > replacing the water pump
> > > > > > > >      > > > > assembly
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > every year. The motor
> > is
> > > > 2001
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > >      > the
> > > > > > > >      > > > first year in service.
> > > > > > > >      > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > in salt water 9-10
> > months,
> > > > occasionally
> > > > > > > >      > flush
> >
> > > > > > > >      > > > with ear muffs (once a
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > month), and end of
> > season
> > > > run
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > >      > barrel
> > > > > > > >      > > > of fresh water for 1/2
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > hour (alos to burn off
> > > > > deposits,
> > > > > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > Anybody offer best
> > > > > suggestions on
> > > > > > > >      > proceeding
> > > > > > > >      > > > with this replacement
> > > > > > > >      > > > > or
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > any other winter
> > routine?
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > >   Thanks, Jay
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > > Use
> > > > > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > > > > Help?
> > > > > > > >      > > > [3]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      >
> >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > > > > > Use
> > > > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > > > Help?
> > > > > > > >      > > > [4]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Use
> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > Help?
> > > > > > > >      > > > [5]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > > > > Use
> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > > Help?
> > > > > > > >      > > > [6]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      > > >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > > > Use
> > Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> >
> > > > > Help?
> > > > > > > >      > >[7]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > >__________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > >      > >Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund
> > fast
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > > filing
> > > > > > > >      > online.
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > >[8]http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > Help?
> > > > > > > >      > [9]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      > >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > > > Help?
> > > > > > > >      > [10]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > Keep up with high-tech trends
> > here at
> > > > > > > "Hook'd
> >
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > >      > Technology."
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > [11]http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >      >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > Help?
> > > > > > > >      [12]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >      __________________________________
> > > > > > > >      Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > >      Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund
> > fast by
> > > > > > > filing
> > > > > > > > online.
> > > > > > > >
> > [13]http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >      Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org,
> > Help?
> > > > > > > > [14]www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > References
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    1.
> > > > > mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > >    2.
> > > > > mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > > >    3. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >    4. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > > > > > > >    5. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >    6. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >    7. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >    8. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > > >    9. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >   10. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >   11.
> > > > > > >
> > http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx
> > > > > > > >   12. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >   13. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > > >   14. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by
> > filing
> > > > online.
> > > > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by
> > filing
> > > > > online.
> > > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> > > > online.
> > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > Name: 03pg10_Lund2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size:
> > > 87545
> > > > bytes Desc: not available
> > > > Url:
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200402/17/03pg10_Lund2
> jpg
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> > >
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:33:24 -0800 (PST)
> From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Steve 2 cycle vs 4 cycle smoke: ad
> nauseam
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <20040218213324.8973.qmail at web14901.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Dammmmmmmmmm, Rummy.  I have heard about it but have
> never seen it. I would have laugh my ass off:-)  Those
> guys are just crazy not to mention being a real PINA.
> Excellent story; I bet they did crap their pants:-) It
> always grips me when were racing & it a low wind days
> (less that 4 mph wind) and we're barely able to keep
> the boat going forward and one of them shoot right
> thur the middle of the fleet - sail go to slapping,
> boat turns sideways.  They don't know much about
> seamanship.
> Steve
> 
> 
> --- R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
> > Steve,
> > You are absolutely correct about the instability of
> > the Bass Boats. My wife
> > and I had the luxury of being out on our Hobie 16
> > one windless afternoon and we
> > were getting bounced around pretty good by the large
> > three foot rollers
> > coming off of passing cruisers plowing thru the
> > water. Sure enough, along comes one
> > of those bass herders in a hurry to get to the
> > perfect spot. One of my gripes
> > about these guys is that few, if any, have any
> > experience with a boat prior
> > to owning their bats out of hell boats. Anywho, this
> > guy and his partner hit
> > one of these wakes broadside. The bass boat rolled
> > up the wave and went
> > completely over. A perfect barrel roll. Landed right
> > side up. Nothing fell out of the
> > boat, not even the fisherman. It happened so fast we
> > couldn't believe what we
> > had just seen. Those two sat there for a long time.
> > No doubt cleaning out
> > their shorts. When they left, it was at a
> > considerably slower speed.
> >
> > Rummy
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
> 
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> 
> End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 410, Issue 2
> *********************************************
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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>