[Rhodes22-list] reply to Wally's Politics

Wally Buck tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Mon May 3 12:43:43 EDT 2004 

Ed,

Both of my parents were born and raised in NYC. I am an ex-New Yorker and I 
have a bunch of family in the area including brother and sister. I lived in 
NYC and LI for many years. I am not sure what your point is. I haven't 
forgotten about the twin towers. The guys that blew up the twin towers were 
Saudis not Iraquis.

If we had strong evidence proving otherwise it would have been revealed by 
now. If there is a link wouldn't it have made more sense to have our ducks 
in a row before attacking? Why couldn't we confirm the link first making 
sure we had a storng case then attacking?

I am all for taking the fight to terrorist. I was ok with going into 
Afghanastan. I think we rushed into Iraq with no long term plan and we are 
now paying for it.  Bush pushed for this war, I don't have to like it. If 
you are happy with it more power to you. I am more worried about the safety 
our our troops in Iraq than I am about myself here in TN.

Wally
>From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] reply to Wally's Politics
>Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:48:36 -0400
>
>Wally:
>
>	For those with no connection to New York City, nor ever having seen
>the twin towers, it appears easy to forget the part of the equation that
>deals with terrorist.  Many say Iraq had no connection.  I beg your pardon.
>One terrorist wanted for questioning fled to Iraq and was given asylum and
>sanctuary by Sadaam.
>	Loud voices say no weapons of mass destruction were found. Just two
>weeks ago in Jordan a plot to use chemical weapons was stopped in Jordan.
>Analyst determined the weapons came to Jordan thru Syria.  The chemicals
>were determined to have been made in Iraq in what the news media called a
>fertilizer factory.
>	I say it is better to take the fight to terrorist where they come
>from and not allow them to do their dirty tricks in America.  Maybe you
>think the middle of Tennessee is safe.  But where is Oak Ridge?  Are you
>willing to let terrorist get inside and control of the plant?  I imagine
>that they could made a bang there.
>	This problem is not only about oil.
>	Humpf!
>                Ed K
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Wally Buck
>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 7:59 AM
>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
>
>Roger,
>
>I would have much more respect for the war supporters if they all admited
>that it was about oil. If you listen to folks like Steve one can see they
>are blinded by party line. To me their viewpoint is the one that is naive.
>They are buying into all of the other reasons like freedon, WMD, and so on.
>Your post supports my belief, that oil is blood and we are the ones
>attacking over it. Some just need to wrap their arms around that!
>
>Wally
>
>
> >From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> >Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:20:27 -0400
> >
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> >The world population is currently at about 6.2 billion people & 
>continuing
> >to grow exponentially.  Depending upon which study you believe, that's
> >about
> >2X - 3X the size of the population that could be supported W/O modern
> >technology.  Like it or not, that means transportation, energy systems,
> >infrastructure, & products that run on crude oil.  If the civilized world
> >does not take steps to assure the uninterrupted flow of crude oil from 
>the
> >Middle East; then, more people are going to have to die off than have 
>died
> >in all of the wars and all of the plagues throughout human history
> >combined!
> >Please keep that in mind as you go on & on about how there should be no
> >blood for oil.  The plain, unvarnished, irrefutable, inescapable truth is
> >that OIL IS BLOOD!  Wrap your arms around that concept & learn to deal 
>with
> >it.  Any other attitude is so naive that it must be considered childish.
> >For everything else that G.W. Bush has done wrong, he clearly understands
> >that basic truth.
> >
> >Roger Pihlaja
> >S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> >To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:40 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> >
> >
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > I wouldn't call Bush's taking us to war over false hoods a "minor
> >lapse".
> > > Talk about understatement!
> > >
> > > I agree that the French and Russians were on the take. At least when 
>the
> > > French and Russian's were on the take no Americans were getting 
>killed.
> >I
> > > have said all along this war is about oil and Paul's post supports my
> >view
> > > point. WMD, human rights, freedom and so on all sound good but if 
>there
> > > wasn't a drop of oil in the area the US, France, and Russia wouldn't
> >give
> >a
> > > flip.So now we are at "war " and the US controls the oil. I don't see
> >how
> > > this is a big improvement.
> > >
> > > Wally
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Very interesting, Paul.  You know, I figured it was
> > > >only a matter of time before this came out.  A country
> > > >such a French putting monetary issue before the safety
> > > >of the world.  We should all get down on our knees &
> > > >thank God that we have our President (and a GREAT
> > > >President at that) & Tony Blair over in England that
> > > >was willing to take a stand for whats right!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >Where me a flag; I feel like saluting it:-)
> > > >Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> > > > > Forgive me if you receive this twice.  I
> > > > > accidentally left out the subject
> > > > > on the first try. - Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > April 28, 2004 -- ANYONE who pines for genuine
> > > > > international
> > > > > multilateralism would do well to follow the bribes
> > > > > now being uncovered in
> > > > > the United Nations' Oil-for- Food scandal.
> > > > > Why did France and Russia oppose efforts to topple
> > > > > Saddam Hussein's regime?
> > > > > And why did they press constantly, throughout the
> > > > > '90s, for an expansion of
> > > > > Iraqi oil sales? Was it their empathy for the
> > > > > starving children of that
> > > > > impoverished nation? Their desire to stop the United
> > > > > States from arrogantly
> > > > > imposing its vision upon the Middle East?
> > > > >
> > > > > It now looks like they it was simply because they
> > > > > were on the take. Saddam
> > > > > was their cash cow. If President Bush has suffered
> > > > > some discredit over his
> > > > > apparently false - but not disingenuous - claims of
> > > > > Iraqi weapons of mass
> > > > > destruction, the lapse is minor compared to the
> > > > > outright personal
> > > > > selfishness and criminality that appears to have
> > > > > motivated many of those
> > > > > who opposed his efforts to rid the world of one of
> > > > > its worst dictators.
> > > > >
> > > > > Throughout the '90s, France and Russia badgered the
> > > > > United States and
> > > > > Britain to increase Iraqi oil production. President
> > > > > Bill Clinton and Prime
> > > > > Minister Tony Blair fought them at each step, but
> > > > > then reluctantly gave
> > > > > way. First Iraq was allowed to sell 500,000 barrels
> > > > > daily. Then, on Franco-
> > > > > Russian insistence, it was raised to 1 million, then
> > > > > to 2 million and,
> > > > > finally, to 3 million barrels a day.
> > > > >
> > > > > Each time, America and Britain - the nations now
> > > > > accused of coveting Iraqi
> > > > > oil - resisted the increases in Iraqi production and
> > > > > urged tighter controls
> > > > > over the program. Each time, the French and the
> > > > > Russians prattled on about
> > > > > the rights of Iraqi sovereignty and the need to feed
> > > > > the children.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now we know why the French and Russians were so
> > > > > insistent. Iraqi government
> > > > > documents (leaked to the Baghdad newspaper Al Mada)
> > > > > list at least 270
> > > > > individuals and entities who got vouchers allowing
> > > > > them to sell Iraqi oil -
> > > > > and to keep much of the money. These vouchers, and
> > > > > the promise of instant
> > > > > great wealth they carried with them, bought vital
> > > > > support in the United
> > > > > Nations to let Saddam stay in power.
> > > > >
> > > > > The list of those receiving these bribes includes
> > > > > France's former French
> > > > > Interior Minister Charles Pasqua (who's a leader of
> > > > > Chirac's party) and
> > > > > Patrick Maugein, the head of the French Oil firm
> > > > > Soco International.
> > > > > France's former U.N. ambassador, Jean-Bernard
> > > > > Merimee, got vouchers to sell
> > > > > 11 million barrels.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In Russia, the payoff chain reached right into the
> > > > > "office of the Russian
> > > > > president." President Vladimir Putin's Peace and
> > > > > Unity Party also got
> > > > > vouchers, as did the Soviet-era Prime Minister
> > > > > Nikolai Ryzhkov and the
> > > > > Russian Orthodox Church. Nationalist leader Vladimir
> > > > > Zhirinovsky shared in
> > > > > the largesse.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not to be left behind, the Rev. Jean Marie Benjamin
> > > > > of the Vatican got the
> > > > > rights to sell 4.5 million barrels as recompense for
> > > > > setting up a meeting
> > > > > between Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz and the
> > > > > pope.
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed, the list indicates that Benon Sevan, the
> > > > > United Nations official in
> > > > > charge of the Oil-for-Food program. received
> > > > > vouchers. He denies the
> > > > > charge, but has decided to retire next month anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At the start of the Oil-for-Food program, America
> > > > > and Britain proposed that
> > > > > the money flow only to accounts entirely controlled
> > > > > by the United Nations.
> > > > > Soon this standard was lowered to include accounts
> > > > > not actually controlled
> > > > > by the United Nations, but only monitored by it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then-Sen. Frank Murkowski (R-Alaska) warned that
> > > > > "oil is fungible" and
> > > > > noted that once Iraq was allowed to pump and sell
> > > > > it, Saddam could sell all
> > > > > he wanted outside of officially sanctioned channels
> > > > > and nobody could tell
> > > > > which black liquid was legal and which not. But
> > > > > nobody imagined that there
> > > > > were actual bribes going to specific French, Russian
> > > > > and U.N. officials as
> > > > > part of the program.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now it appears that Secretary-General Kofi Annan's
> > > > > sanctimonious posturing
> > > > > may have concealed oil bribes which reached high up
> > > > > in the ranks of the
> > > > > U.N. organization itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > The defect of international coalitions is that they
> > > > > include the just and
> > > > > the unjust, the bribed and the honest, the
> > > > > democratic and the autocratic.
> > > > > And their members cannot be trusted equally. The
> > > > > group that stood up and
> > > > > backed the invasion of Iraq was nicknamed "the
> > > > > Coalition of the Willing."
> > > > > Now it appears it was also "the Coalition of the
> > > > > Honest."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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