[Rhodes22-list] reply to Wally's Politics

Steve rhodes2282 at yahoo.com
Mon May 3 10:03:41 EDT 2004 

Wally is from NYC.  Now that explains alot.  

BTW: Wally, you should support the troop; not worry
about them.  They are for the war, they know all the
good things that this will do.  They support the
President.  I guess maybe unless their from NYC:-)
Steve

--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ed,
> 
> Both of my parents were born and raised in NYC. I am
> an ex-New Yorker and I 
> have a bunch of family in the area including brother
> and sister. I lived in 
> NYC and LI for many years. I am not sure what your
> point is. I haven't 
> forgotten about the twin towers. The guys that blew
> up the twin towers were 
> Saudis not Iraquis.
> 
> If we had strong evidence proving otherwise it would
> have been revealed by 
> now. If there is a link wouldn't it have made more
> sense to have our ducks 
> in a row before attacking? Why couldn't we confirm
> the link first making 
> sure we had a storng case then attacking?
> 
> I am all for taking the fight to terrorist. I was ok
> with going into 
> Afghanastan. I think we rushed into Iraq with no
> long term plan and we are 
> now paying for it.  Bush pushed for this war, I
> don't have to like it. If 
> you are happy with it more power to you. I am more
> worried about the safety 
> our our troops in Iraq than I am about myself here
> in TN.
> 
> Wally
> >From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] reply to Wally's Politics
> >Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 10:48:36 -0400
> >
> >Wally:
> >
> >	For those with no connection to New York City, nor
> ever having seen
> >the twin towers, it appears easy to forget the part
> of the equation that
> >deals with terrorist.  Many say Iraq had no
> connection.  I beg your pardon.
> >One terrorist wanted for questioning fled to Iraq
> and was given asylum and
> >sanctuary by Sadaam.
> >	Loud voices say no weapons of mass destruction
> were found. Just two
> >weeks ago in Jordan a plot to use chemical weapons
> was stopped in Jordan.
> >Analyst determined the weapons came to Jordan thru
> Syria.  The chemicals
> >were determined to have been made in Iraq in what
> the news media called a
> >fertilizer factory.
> >	I say it is better to take the fight to terrorist
> where they come
> >from and not allow them to do their dirty tricks in
> America.  Maybe you
> >think the middle of Tennessee is safe.  But where
> is Oak Ridge?  Are you
> >willing to let terrorist get inside and control of
> the plant?  I imagine
> >that they could made a bang there.
> >	This problem is not only about oil.
> >	Humpf!
> >                Ed K
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> Behalf Of Wally Buck
> >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 7:59 AM
> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> >
> >Roger,
> >
> >I would have much more respect for the war
> supporters if they all admited
> >that it was about oil. If you listen to folks like
> Steve one can see they
> >are blinded by party line. To me their viewpoint is
> the one that is naive.
> >They are buying into all of the other reasons like
> freedon, WMD, and so on.
> >Your post supports my belief, that oil is blood and
> we are the ones
> >attacking over it. Some just need to wrap their
> arms around that!
> >
> >Wally
> >
> >
> > >From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > >Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:20:27 -0400
> > >
> > >Gentlemen,
> > >
> > >The world population is currently at about 6.2
> billion people & 
> >continuing
> > >to grow exponentially.  Depending upon which
> study you believe, that's
> > >about
> > >2X - 3X the size of the population that could be
> supported W/O modern
> > >technology.  Like it or not, that means
> transportation, energy systems,
> > >infrastructure, & products that run on crude oil.
>  If the civilized world
> > >does not take steps to assure the uninterrupted
> flow of crude oil from 
> >the
> > >Middle East; then, more people are going to have
> to die off than have 
> >died
> > >in all of the wars and all of the plagues
> throughout human history
> > >combined!
> > >Please keep that in mind as you go on & on about
> how there should be no
> > >blood for oil.  The plain, unvarnished,
> irrefutable, inescapable truth is
> > >that OIL IS BLOOD!  Wrap your arms around that
> concept & learn to deal 
> >with
> > >it.  Any other attitude is so naive that it must
> be considered childish.
> > >For everything else that G.W. Bush has done
> wrong, he clearly understands
> > >that basic truth.
> > >
> > >Roger Pihlaja
> > >S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> > >To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:40 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > >
> > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't call Bush's taking us to war over
> false hoods a "minor
> > >lapse".
> > > > Talk about understatement!
> > > >
> > > > I agree that the French and Russians were on
> the take. At least when 
> >the
> > > > French and Russian's were on the take no
> Americans were getting 
> >killed.
> > >I
> > > > have said all along this war is about oil and
> Paul's post supports my
> > >view
> > > > point. WMD, human rights, freedom and so on
> all sound good but if 
> >there
> > > > wasn't a drop of oil in the area the US,
> France, and Russia wouldn't
> > >give
> > >a
> > > > flip.So now we are at "war " and the US
> controls the oil. I don't see
> > >how
> > > > this is a big improvement.
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > > >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >Very interesting, Paul.  You know, I figured
> it was
> > > > >only a matter of time before this came out. 
> A country
> > > > >such a French putting monetary issue before
> the safety
> > > > >of the world.  We should all get down on our
> knees &
> > > > >thank God that we have our President (and a
> GREAT
> > > > >President at that) & Tony Blair over in
> England that
> > > > >was willing to take a stand for whats
> right!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > >Where me a flag; I feel like saluting it:-)
> > > > >Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> > > > > > Forgive me if you receive this twice.  I
> > > > > > accidentally left out the subject
> > > > > > on the first try. - Paul
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > April 28, 2004 -- ANYONE who pines for
> genuine
> > > > > > international
> > > > > > multilateralism would do well to follow
> the bribes
> > > > > > now being uncovered in
> > > > > > the United Nations' Oil-for- Food scandal.
> > > > > > Why did France and Russia oppose efforts
> to topple
> > > > > > Saddam Hussein's regime?
> > > > > > And why did they press constantly,
> throughout the
> > > > > > '90s, for an expansion of
> > > > > > Iraqi oil sales? Was it their empathy for
> the
> > > > > > starving children of that
> > > > > > impoverished nation? Their desire to stop
> the United
> > > > > > States from arrogantly
> > > > > > imposing its vision upon the Middle East?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It now looks like they it was simply
> because they
> > > > > > were on the take. Saddam
> > > > > > was their cash cow. If President Bush has
> suffered
> > > > > > some discredit over his
> > > > > > apparently false - but not disingenuous -
> claims of
> > > > > > Iraqi weapons of mass
> > > > > > destruction, the lapse is minor compared
> to the
> > > > > > outright personal
> > > > > > selfishness and criminality that appears
> to have
> > > > > > motivated many of those
> > > > > > who opposed his efforts to rid the world
> of one of
> > > > > > its worst dictators.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Throughout the '90s, France and Russia
> badgered the
> > > > > > United States and
> > > > > > Britain to increase Iraqi oil production.
> President
> > > > > > Bill Clinton and Prime
> > > > > > Minister Tony Blair fought them at each
> step, but
> > > > > > then reluctantly gave
> > > > > > way. First Iraq was allowed to sell
> 500,000 barrels
> > > > > > daily. Then, on Franco-
> > > > > > Russian insistence, it was raised to 1
> million, then
> > > > > > to 2 million and,
> > > > > > finally, to 3 million barrels a day.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Each time, America and Britain - the
> nations now
> > > > > > accused of coveting Iraqi
> > > > > > oil - resisted the increases in Iraqi
> production and
> > > > > > urged tighter controls
> > > > > > over the program. Each time, the French
> and the
> > > > > > Russians prattled on about
> > > > > > the rights of Iraqi sovereignty and the
> need to feed
> > > > > > the children.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now we know why the French and Russians
> were so
> > > > > > insistent. Iraqi government
> > > > > > documents (leaked to the Baghdad newspaper
> Al Mada)
> > > > > > list at least 270
> > > > > > individuals and entities who got vouchers
> allowing
> > > > > > them to sell Iraqi oil -
> > > > > > and to keep much of the money. These
> vouchers, and
> > > > > > the promise of instant
> > > > > > great wealth they carried with them,
> bought vital
> > > > > > support in the United
> > > > > > Nations to let Saddam stay in power.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The list of those receiving these bribes
> includes
> > > > > > France's former French
> > > > > > Interior Minister Charles Pasqua (who's a
> leader of
> > > > > > Chirac's party) and
> > > > > > Patrick Maugein, the head of the French
> Oil firm
> > > > > > Soco International.
> > > > > > France's former U.N. ambassador,
> Jean-Bernard
> > > > > > Merimee, got vouchers to sell
> > > > > > 11 million barrels.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Russia, the payoff chain reached right
> into the
> > > > > > "office of the Russian
> > > > > > president." President Vladimir Putin's
> Peace and
> > > > > > Unity Party also got
> > > > > > vouchers, as did the Soviet-era Prime
> Minister
> > > > > > Nikolai Ryzhkov and the
> > > > > > Russian Orthodox Church. Nationalist
> leader Vladimir
> > > > > > Zhirinovsky shared in
> > > > > > the largesse.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not to be left behind, the Rev. Jean Marie
> Benjamin
> > > > > > of the Vatican got the
> > > > > > rights to sell 4.5 million barrels as
> recompense for
> > > > > > setting up a meeting
> > > > > > between Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz
> and the
> > > > > > pope.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Indeed, the list indicates that Benon
> Sevan, the
> > > > > > United Nations official in
> > > > > > charge of the Oil-for-Food program.
> received
> > > > > > vouchers. He denies the
> > > > > > charge, but has decided to retire next
> month anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At the start of the Oil-for-Food program,
> America
> > > > > > and Britain proposed that
> > > > > > the money flow only to accounts entirely
> controlled
> > > > > > by the United Nations.
> > > > > > Soon this standard was lowered to include
> accounts
> > > > > > not actually controlled
> > > > > > by the United Nations, but only monitored
> by it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then-Sen. Frank Murkowski (R-Alaska)
> warned that
> > > > > > "oil is fungible" and
> > > > > > noted that once Iraq was allowed to pump
> and sell
> > > > > > it, Saddam could sell all
> > > > > > he wanted outside of officially sanctioned
> channels
> > > > > > and nobody could tell
> > > > > > which black liquid was legal and which
> not. But
> > > > > > nobody imagined that there
> > > > > > were actual bribes going to specific
> French, Russian
> > > > > > and U.N. officials as
> > > > > > part of the program.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now it appears that Secretary-General Kofi
> Annan's
> > > > > > sanctimonious posturing
> > > > > > may have concealed oil bribes which
> reached high up
> > > > > > in the ranks of the
> > > > > > U.N. organization itself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The defect of international coalitions is
> that they
> > > > > > include the just and
> > > > > > the unjust, the bribed and the honest, the
> > > > > > democratic and the autocratic.
> > > > > > And their members cannot be trusted
> equally. The
> > > > > > group that stood up and
> > > > > > backed the invasion of Iraq was nicknamed
> "the
> > > > > > Coalition of the Willing."
> > > > > > Now it appears it was also "the Coalition
> of the
> > > > > > Honest."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> __________________________________________________
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