[Rhodes22-list] US Energy Supply & Demand

Tue May 4 19:26:51 EDT 2004

Another Thing Steve,

That is not my data and projections.  The data were taken from the United
States Dept. of Energy Outlook, 2004.  In other words, it represents the US
DOE's best & most current forecast combined with historical data on the
supply/demand situation for crude oil & natural gas.  It is NOT simply a
projection of current trends; but, rather a sophisticated econometric model
prepared by the US governmental agency charged with being the leading expert
on such matters.  If you aren't willing to believe the US DOE; then, we
probably have no basis for discussion & you need to go stick your head back
in the sand.

Roger

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] US Energy Supply & Demand

> Steve,
>
> You need to look at my charts.  There hasn't been a nuclear power plant
> built in this country since before Three Mile Island & there are currently
> none on the drawing board.  Wind energy, solar, & biomass can each make
> their contributions; but, the decimal point is in the wrong place.  i.e.
> these energy sources are factors of 10X, 100X or more too small to make up
> the energy deficit.
>
> If you think that additional exploration & drilling are going to double
our
> production of crude oil; then, you're dreaming.  There are legitimate
> environmental concerns for not allowing oil exploration in some locations,
> like the ANWR.  I personally think the ANWR oil reserves should be
tapped -
> under the most stringent environmental standards achievable by best
> available technology & with contractual obligation & perhaps liabilility
> insurance up front to restore the sites to pristine condition once the oil
> has been extracted.  You've vastly oversimplified the democrats vs.
> republicans role in this issue.
>
> This country will never see domestic crude oil production that matches
> domestic demand ever again.  You can take that to the bank!
>
> Roger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] US Energy Supply & Demand
>
>
> > Roger
> > Just analyze your charts.  Your projecting out useage
> > without factoring in the Changes that are being made
> > in the US - past & present.  Those assumptions are
> > incorrect.
> > Steve
> >
> > --- Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Roger
> > > Did you not read the data I sent.  Also, check out
> > > the
> > > link.  Looks like your research is incomplete.
> > > There
> > > is only one thing stoping this country from being
> > > seft
> > > relieance; and that Democrat stopping us from
> > > drilling. You should support the President plan; go
> > > to
> > > the white house web site and read thier energy
> > > policy.
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > The two attachments give the data re the United
> > > > States supply & demand for
> > > > crude oil & natural gas.  I just happen to have
> > > > these two plots because I
> > > > needed to generate them for the business plan in
> > > my
> > > > MSTP531 Entrepreneurship
> > > > Seminar last week.  Take a look at the data
> > > because
> > > > its pretty alarming!
> > > > Your statement re being able to make up the
> > > current
> > > > shortfall in crude oil &
> > > > natural gas production are simply not correct.  I
> > > > know because I just spent
> > > > most of last semester researching the subject.  Do
> > > > you remember the 1973
> > > > OPEC oil embargo?  We currently import almost
> > > twice
> > > > as much crude oil as in
> > > > 1973.  OPEC can hurt us real bad any time they
> > > > choose.  Perhaps in a couple
> > > > of years, with massive exploration + widespread
> > > > application of secondary &
> > > > tertiary oil recovery techniques, we could make a
> > > > substantial dent in our
> > > > oil imports.  But, do you you know how long an
> > > > average supertanker of crude
> > > > oil will run the US economy?  About 2-3 days!  The
> > > > famous strategic
> > > > petroleum reserve is only for the military.  It
> > > > would only run our economy
> > > > for a couple of months.  We literally run the US
> > > > energy economy on a
> > > > just-in-time supply basis!
> > > >
> > > > Frankly, the US needs a better energy policy than
> > > > the one we've got - or is
> > > > it the one we don't got!
> > > >
> > > > Roger Pihlaja
> > > > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:00 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] reply to Wally's
> > > > Politics
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Roger - you shouldn' unset poor Wally like that.
> > >
> > > > War
> > > > > is for Oil; Wally is lible to start believing
> > > > that:-)
> > > > >
> > > > > For the record, the US is the 3rd largest
> > > producer
> > > > of
> > > > > Oil in the World.  Yes, we import a lot of oil
> > > and
> > > > > natrual gas but those are the only two.  All
> > > other
> > > > > energy sources, the US is self reliant.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also for the record, we don't need the middle
> > > east
> > > > > oil.  We have the cability to produce our own
> > > > > stockpiles there in the US.  The fact that we
> > > > don't;
> > > > > just thank your Democrats & Enviormentalist.
> > > > Also, we
> > > > > can produce enough energy to last 250 years if
> > > we
> > > > > swithch over to utilize Coal.
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- ed kroposki <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
> > > > > > Wally:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For those with no connection to New York City,
> > > > nor
> > > > > > ever having seen
> > > > > > the twin towers, it appears easy to forget the
> > > > part
> > > > > > of the equation that
> > > > > > deals with terrorist.  Many say Iraq had no
> > > > > > connection.  I beg your pardon.
> > > > > > One terrorist wanted for questioning fled to
> > > > Iraq
> > > > > > and was given asylum and
> > > > > > sanctuary by Sadaam.
> > > > > > Loud voices say no weapons of mass destruction
> > > > were
> > > > > > found. Just two
> > > > > > weeks ago in Jordan a plot to use chemical
> > > > weapons
> > > > > > was stopped in Jordan.
> > > > > > Analyst determined the weapons came to Jordan
> > > > thru
> > > > > > Syria.  The chemicals
> > > > > > were determined to have been made in Iraq in
> > > > what
> > > > > > the news media called a
> > > > > > fertilizer factory.
> > > > > > I say it is better to take the fight to
> > > > terrorist
> > > > > > where they come
> > > > > > from and not allow them to do their dirty
> > > tricks
> > > > in
> > > > > > America.  Maybe you
> > > > > > think the middle of Tennessee is safe.  But
> > > > where is
> > > > > > Oak Ridge?  Are you
> > > > > > willing to let terrorist get inside and
> > > control
> > > > of
> > > > > > the plant?  I imagine
> > > > > > that they could made a bang there.
> > > > > > This problem is not only about oil.
> > > > > > Humpf!
> > > > > >                Ed K
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Wally Buck
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 7:59 AM
> > > > > > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roger,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would have much more respect for the war
> > > > > > supporters if they all admited
> > > > > > that it was about oil. If you listen to folks
> > > > like
> > > > > > Steve one can see they
> > > > > > are blinded by party line. To me their
> > > viewpoint
> > > > is
> > > > > > the one that is naive.
> > > > > > They are buying into all of the other reasons
> > > > like
> > > > > > freedon, WMD, and so on.
> > > > > > Your post supports my belief, that oil is
> > > blood
> > > > and
> > > > > > we are the ones
> > > > > > attacking over it. Some just need to wrap
> > > their
> > > > arms
> > > > > > around that!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wally
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Roger Pihlaja"
> > > <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > > > > >Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:20:27 -0400
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Gentlemen,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The world population is currently at about
> > > 6.2
> > > > > > billion people & continuing
> > > > > > >to grow exponentially.  Depending upon which
> > > > study
> > > > > > you believe, that's
> > > > > > >about
> > > > > > >2X - 3X the size of the population that could
> > > > be
> > > > > > supported W/O modern
> > > > > > >technology.  Like it or not, that means
> > > > > > transportation, energy systems,
> > > > > > >infrastructure, & products that run on crude
> > > > oil.
> > > > > > If the civilized world
> > > > > > >does not take steps to assure the
> > > uninterrupted
> > > > > > flow of crude oil from the
> > > > > > >Middle East; then, more people are going to
> > > > have to
> > > > > > die off than have died
> > > > > > >in all of the wars and all of the plagues
> > > > > > throughout human history
> > > > > > >combined!
> > > > > > >Please keep that in mind as you go on & on
> > > > about
> > > > > > how there should be no
> > > > > > >blood for oil.  The plain, unvarnished,
> > > > > > irrefutable, inescapable truth is
> > > > > > >that OIL IS BLOOD!  Wrap your arms around
> > > that
> > > > > > concept & learn to deal with
> > > > > > >it.  Any other attitude is so naive that it
> > > > must be
> > > > > > considered childish.
> > > > > > >For everything else that G.W. Bush has done
> > > > wrong,
> > > > > > he clearly understands
> > > > > > >that basic truth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Roger Pihlaja
> > > > > > >S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >From: "Wally Buck" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> > > > > > >To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:40 AM
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More Politics
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Steve,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I wouldn't call Bush's taking us to war
> > > over
> > > > > > false hoods a "minor
> > > > > > >lapse".
> > > > > > > > Talk about understatement!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree that the French and Russians were
> > > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > take. At least when the
> > > > > > > > French and Russian's were on the take no
> > > > > > Americans were getting killed.
> > > > > > >I
> > > > > > > > have said all along this war is about oil
> > > > and
> > > > > > Paul's post supports my
> > > > > > >view
> > > > > > > > point. WMD, human rights, freedom and so
> > > on
> > > > all
> > > > > > sound good but if there
> > > > > > > > wasn't a drop of oil in the area the US,
> > > > France,
> > > > > > and Russia wouldn't
> > > > > > >give
> > > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > flip.So now we are at "war " and the US
> > > > controls
> > > > > > the oil. I don't see
> > > > > > >how
> > > > > > > > this is a big improvement.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wally
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] More
> > > Politics
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:25:08 -0700
> > > (PDT)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Very interesting, Paul.  You know, I
> > > > figured it
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > >only a matter of time before this came
> > > out.
> > > >  A
> > > > > > country
> > > > > > > > >such a French putting monetary issue
> > > before
> > > > the
> > > > > > safety
> > > > > > > > >of the world.  We should all get down on
> > > > our
> > > > > > knees &
> > > > > > > > >thank God that we have our President (and
> > > a
> > > > > > GREAT
> > > > > > > > >President at that) & Tony Blair over in
> > > > England
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >was willing to take a stand for whats
> > > > > > right!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > > > > >Where me a flag; I feel like saluting
> > > it:-)
> > > > > > > > >Steve
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Forgive me if you receive this twice.
> > > I
> > > > > > > > > > accidentally left out the subject
> > > > > > > > > > on the first try. - Paul
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > April 28, 2004 -- ANYONE who pines for
> > > > > > genuine
> > > > > > > > > > international
> > > > > > > > > > multilateralism would do well to
> > > follow
> > > > the
> > > > > > bribes
> > > > > > > > > > now being uncovered in
> > > > > > > > > > the United Nations' Oil-for- Food
> > > > scandal.
> > > > > > > > > > Why did France and Russia oppose
> > > efforts
> > > > to
> > > > > > topple
> > > > > > > > > > Saddam Hussein's regime?
> > > > > > > > > > And why did they press constantly,
> > > > > > throughout the
> > > > > > > > > > '90s, for an expansion of
> > > > > > > > > > Iraqi oil sales? Was it their empathy
> > > > for
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > starving children of that
> > > > > > > > > > impoverished nation? Their desire to
> > > > stop
> > > > > > the United
> > > > > > > > > > States from arrogantly
> > > > > > > > > > imposing its vision upon the Middle
> > > > East?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It now looks like they it was simply
> > > > because
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > were on the take. Saddam
> > > > > > > > > > was their cash cow. If President Bush
> > > > has
> > > > > > suffered
> > > > > > > > > > some discredit over his
> > > > > > > > > > apparently false - but not
> > > disingenuous
> > > > -
> > > > > > claims of
> > > > > > > > > > Iraqi weapons of mass
> > > > > > > > > > destruction, the lapse is minor
> > > compared
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > outright personal
> > > > > > > > > > selfishness and criminality that
> > > appears
> > > > to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > motivated many of those
> > > > > > > > > > who opposed his efforts to rid the
> > > world
> > > > of
> > > > > > one of
> > > > > > > > > > its worst dictators.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Throughout the '90s, France and Russia
> > > > > > badgered the
> > > > > > > > > > United States and
> > > > > > > > > > Britain to increase Iraqi oil
> > > > production.
> > > > > > President
> > > > > > > > > > Bill Clinton and Prime
> > > > > > > > > > Minister Tony Blair fought them at
> > > each
> > > > > > step, but
> > > > > > > > > > then reluctantly gave
> > > > > > > > > > way. First Iraq was allowed to sell
> > > > 500,000
> > > > > > barrels
> > > > > > > > > > daily. Then, on Franco-
> > > > > > > > > > Russian insistence, it was raised to 1
> > > > > > million, then
> > > > > > > > > > to 2 million and,
> > > > > > > > > > finally, to 3 million barrels a day.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Each time, America and Britain - the
> > > > nations
> > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > > accused of coveting Iraqi
> > > > > > > > > > oil - resisted the increases in Iraqi
> > > > > > production and
> > > > > > > > > > urged tighter controls
> > > > > > > > > > over the program. Each time, the
> > > French
> > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Russians prattled on about
> > > > > > > > > > the rights of Iraqi sovereignty and
> > > the
> > > > need
> > > > > > to feed
> > > > > > > > > > the children.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Now we know why the French and
> > > Russians
> > > > were
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > insistent. Iraqi government
> > > > > > > > > > documents (leaked to the Baghdad
> > > > newspaper
> > > > > > Al Mada)
> > > > > > > > > > list at least 270
> > > > > > > > > > individuals and entities who got
> > > > vouchers
> > > > > > allowing
> > > > > > > > > > them to sell Iraqi oil -
> > > > > > > > > > and to keep much of the money. These
> > > > > > vouchers, and
> > > > > > > > > > the promise of instant
> > > > > > > > > > great wealth they carried with them,
> > > > bought
> > > > > > vital
> > > > > > > > > > support in the United
> > > > > > > > > > Nations to let Saddam stay in power.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The list of those receiving these
> > > bribes
> > > > > > includes
> > > > > > > > > > France's former French
> > > > > > > > > > Interior Minister Charles Pasqua
> > > (who's
> > > > a
> > > > > > leader of
> > > > > > > > > > Chirac's party) and
> > > > > > > > > > Patrick Maugein, the head of the
> > > French
> > > > Oil
> > > > > > firm
> > > > > > > > > > Soco International.
> > > > > > > > > > France's former U.N. ambassador,
> > > > > > Jean-Bernard
> > > > > > > > > > Merimee, got vouchers to sell
> > > > > > > > > > 11 million barrels.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In Russia, the payoff chain reached
> > > > right
> > > > > > into the
> > > > > > > > > > "office of the Russian
> > > > > > > > > > president." President Vladimir Putin's
> > > > Peace
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > Unity Party also got
> > > > > > > > > > vouchers, as did the Soviet-era Prime
> > > > > > Minister
> > > > > > > > > > Nikolai Ryzhkov and the
> > > > > > > > > > Russian Orthodox Church. Nationalist
> > > > leader
> > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > > Zhirinovsky shared in
> > > > > > > > > > the largesse.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Not to be left behind, the Rev. Jean
> > > > Marie
> > > > > > Benjamin
> > > > > > > > > > of the Vatican got the
> > > > > > > > > > rights to sell 4.5 million barrels as
> > > > > > recompense for
> > > > > > > > > > setting up a meeting
> > > > > > > > > > between Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq
> > > > Aziz
> > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > pope.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Indeed, the list indicates that Benon
> > > > Sevan,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > United Nations official in
> > > > > > > > > > charge of the Oil-for-Food program.
> > > > received
> > > > > > > > > > vouchers. He denies the
> > > > > > > > > > charge, but has decided to retire next
> > > > month
> > > > > > anyway.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > At the start of the Oil-for-Food
> > > > program,
> > > > > > America
> > > > > > > > > > and Britain proposed that
> > > > > > > > > > the money flow only to accounts
> > > entirely
> > > > > > controlled
> > > > > > > > > > by the United Nations.
> > > > > > > > > > Soon this standard was lowered to
> > > > include
> > > > > > accounts
> > > > > > > > > > not actually controlled
> > > > > > > > > > by the United Nations, but only
> > > > monitored by
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then-Sen. Frank Murkowski (R-Alaska)
> > > > warned
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > "oil is fungible" and
> > > > > > > > > > noted that once Iraq was allowed to
> > > pump
> > > > and
> > > > > > sell
> > > > > > > > > > it, Saddam could sell all
> > > > > > > > > > he wanted outside of officially
> > > > sanctioned
> > > > > > channels
> > > > > > > > > > and nobody could tell
> > > > > > > > > > which black liquid was legal and which
> > > > not.
> > > > > > But
> > > > > > > > > > nobody imagined that there
> > > > > > > > > > were actual bribes going to specific
> > > > French,
> > > > > > Russian
> > > > > > > > > > and U.N. officials as
> > > > > > > > > > part of the program.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Now it appears that Secretary-General
> > > > Kofi
> > > > > > Annan's
> > > > > > > > > > sanctimonious posturing
> > > > > > > > > > may have concealed oil bribes which
> > > > reached
> > > > > > high up
> > > > > > > > > > in the ranks of the
> > > > > > > > > > U.N. organization itself.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The defect of international coalitions
> > > > is
> > > > > > that they
> > > > > > > > > > include the just and
> > > > > > > > > > the unjust, the bribed and the honest,
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > democratic and the autocratic.
> > > > > > > > > > And their members cannot be trusted
> > > > equally.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > group that stood up and
> > > > > > > > > > backed the invasion of Iraq was
> > > > nicknamed
> > > > > > "the
> > > > > > > > > > Coalition of the Willing."
> > > > > > > > > > Now it appears it was also "the
> > > > Coalition of
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> > > > > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> > > > > www.rhodes22.org/list
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>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>