[Rhodes22-list] Outboards

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Fri Sep 24 12:13:24 EDT 2004 

Michael,

Does your diesel put more or less into the water than a 2-stroke?  Do you know?

What about the little generators like the one Brad has?  Those can't be 4-stroke engines, can they?  Have they been banned, too?

bill


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael Meltzer 
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards


I thing you are right, everyone should have a diesel like me :-) 30% more effectent and with my better proping 1/3 a gallion at hull 
speed or 21 mile mph(flat water) BTW motor cycles are closer to the subject and the EPA outlawed them too.

MJM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Walker" <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards


> To all,
>
> This thread is getting almost as annoying as the the tank in the lazarette.
> Its simple,  if two stroke engines are so good, why don't we see them in the
> other major power/weight requirement useage - automobiles?   The answer is
> they are inefficient and they pollute.
>
> Can we end this?  I'm sick of deleting 30 emails a day without reading them.
>
> David Walker
> davidwalkerphotography.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve" <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
>
>
>> Roger
>> 2 cycles have always been totally realiable.  You
>> can't say that about 4 cycles. 2 cycles can be worked
>> on by anybody with a screwdriver, plier and socket
>> set. Again, you can't say that about 4 cycles.
>>
>> 4 cycles do NOT have any proven history behind them.
>> Only a lot of owners taking them to the shop to have
>> them worked on.
>>
>> 2 cycles usually only need a new spark plug every few
>> years.  As for the noice, turn the radio up or hoist
>> your sails.  As for the gas mileges, I only burn 1 six
>> gallon tank a year.  What better mileges do I need.
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Bill,
>> >
>> > One defective engine from Nissan  has nothing to do
>> > with average emissions
>> > from 4-cycle vs. 2-cycle engines.
>> >
>> > Bill, for every one of your amusing anecdotes about
>> > people having troubles
>> > with their 4-cycle outboards, I can cite you four
>> > other stories about
>> > 4-cycle owners that are happy with 2X better fuel
>> > economy, less noise, no
>> > smoke, not having to mix oil with the gas, etc.  You
>> > know, I've talked with
>> > mechanics at local marinas, did a search on the
>> > internet, looked in Consumer
>> > Reports, looked in the Consumer Product Recall
>> > archieves.  I can't find any
>> > hard evidence about the problems you keep harping
>> > about regarding 4-cycle
>> > reliability.  In my FAQ which I sent to you, I cited
>> > the emission &
>> > toxicology studies that led up to the current
>> > emssion regulations.  You
>> > rejected it all as "glurge".  If the 4-cycle
>> > outboards were really having
>> > the sorts of problems you claim on a widespread
>> > basis; then, shouldn't there
>> > be
>> > some hard data somewhere?  Well, now its your turn
>> > sir, I challenge you
>> > to cite us some hard data on this issue - a service
>> > bulletin from one of the
>> > outboard manufacturers, a consumer product safety
>> > commision report, a
>> > reputable survey - something other than your own
>> > experience.
>> >
>> > By the way, even if your claims about having to mix
>> > additives with 4-cycle
>> > fuel were true, which I dispute, the 4-cycle engine
>> > emission data shows it
>> > emits about 1/10 the unburned hydrocarbons of a
>> > 2-cycle engine.  So, even if
>> > these additives were required in 4-cycle fuel, the
>> > 4-cycle engine would
>> > still do a much better job of incinerating them than
>> > 2-cycle engines do.
>> >
>> > Bill, it's time to put up or shut up.  I say you
>> > don't know what you are
>> > talking about.  Show us the data to prove that you
>> > do.  Until you can
>> > show us this data, I'm going to bring this issue up
>> > every time you say
>> > anything about 2-cycle vs. 4-cycle engines.
>> >
>> > Roger Pihlaja
>> > S/V dynamic Equilibrium
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:34 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
>> >
>> >
>> > > That's "abated breath" I hit the send key when
>> > aiming for the save key.
>> > >
>> > > Keep us posted on the Nissan.  I don't know if
>> > anyone else has a Nissan
>> > 4-stroke.  I was considering them, also.  Is it
>> > quiet?
>> > >
>> > > Roger, not to go round on this again, but my
>> > consistent point has been
>> > that Ron with his supposedly environmentally sound
>> > engine has just dumped
>> > more oil into the environment in 2 hours than I have
>> > dumped into the
>> > environment with my 2 stroke in 2 years.  The dealer
>> > reports this was not an
>> > isolated case.  Many people on the list with
>> > 4-strokes are dumping oil into
>> > their gas tanks to ensure proper lubrication of
>> > their engines.
>> > >
>> > > As everyone knows, I can go off on a right-wing
>> > screed on this issue, but
>> > I am trying to restrain myself.
>> > >
>> > > I know everyone is trying to do the right thing.
>> > Sometimes that impulse
>> > leads to bad policy, bad laws, and bad decisions.
>> > What does Ron do now?
>> > They're not going to give him a new engine.  And
>> > maybe a new one would be
>> > just as bad as the one he's got.
>> > >
>> > > What do I do now?  I was thinking of getting a
>> > 4-stroke, too, but I wanted
>> > to see what happened with Ron.
>> > >
>> > > I WAS waiting with 'bated breath.
>> > >
>> > > Bill Effros
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: Bill Effros
>> > > To: Ronald Lipton ; The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:21 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I believe it's a contraction for "abated breth"
>> > 'bated breath.
>> > >
>> > > Bill Effros
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: Ronald Lipton
>> > > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 6:09 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Outboards
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > For those of you waiting with baited beath (does
>> > this means worms
>> > > hanging out of your mouth?).  I ended up buying
>> > the Nissan 6 four
>> > > cycle.   I could not find a reasonably priced used
>> > 2 cycle long shaft.
>> > > The Monroe Harbormaster was very accomodating
>> > ferrying me out
>> > > to the boat and helping me remove the old engine
>> > and install the new
>> > > one.
>> > >
>> > > The story does not yet have a happy ending ... the
>> > new Nissan
>> > > is burning oil, having emptied it's resovoir after
>> > about 2 hours of
>> > > running and with a thick cloud of smoke on
>> > startup.  I was told by
>> > > the dealer that some of the engines "do that"
>> > until they are broken
>> > > in - but I am sceptical.  Hopefully I can keep it
>> > running well
>> > > enough to allow me to finish the season before it
>> > is serviced, but
>> > > I still have the outboard blues.
>> > >
>> > > for Stan:
>> > >
>> > > Go IU, beat Purdue. ( It might happen someday)
>> > >
>> > > Ron
>> > > __________________________________________________
>> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> > > __________________________________________________
>> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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>> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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