[Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals

Mon Sep 27 10:43:32 EDT 2004

Heck Brad I guess the snake handlers are Pentacostal. They still get bit. 
Maybe the snakes are Batist. ;-)

Great weekend here sailing! We got 25 plus miles on the GPS both days.

Wally

>From: brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals
>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 06:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Wally & Bill,
>
>Time to pack so here's a quick link to an old sailor
>discussing democracy in Iraq and some of the issues
>you mention.
>
>http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/wfb200409241328.asp
>
>Wally, Baptist snake handlers?  I thought they were
>Pentecostal.  Do you realize how many Baptist churches
>there are in Memphis.  Now I have something else to
>worry about.
>
>Brad
>
>
>
>--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> > Wally,
> >
> > I agree on VC.  My point was that they started out
> > with nothing to fight with, and were able to hold us
> > off until our real enemies reinforced them.  The
> > Iraqis started out with huge ammo dumps all over the
> > country and we didn't have enough guys to even guard
> > the ammo or blow it up.  Too late now.  And we are
> > talking about major weapons, here, not sharpened
> > bamboo sticks.
> >
> > There are a billion with a "B" Muslims out there.
> > If each one contributes just 1 bullet to fight
> > against us, we've got a problem that won't ever go
> > away.
> >
> > As to the Kurds, there are as many of them as there
> > are Iraqis.  They are not Arabs.  They are not
> > Turks.  They are not Iranians.  But they are large
> > minorities in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey.  They are
> > trying to carve their own homeland out of all 3
> > countries.  For the Arabs it's another Israel.  Only
> > there are 3 times as many Kurds as there are Jews.
> > It's one of the few things Iraq, Iran and Turkey can
> > agree on--no independence for Kurds.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > (PS -- The boundaries the Kurds are fighting for are
> > extremely oil-rich which just might have something
> > to do with why we back them so strongly.)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wally Buck
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 8:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals
> >
> >
> > Brad & Bill
> >
> > Bill is right here. Iraq was ruled by the Bathist
> > (sic?) party made up of
> > Sunnis. If it comes down to a vote most likely a
> > Shite will win. The Shites
> > are the fundamental extremists. Shites do not
> > believe in seperation of
> > church and state. Shites are like our Baptist snake
> > handlers, The are "old
> > school' muslims and they hate our guts. Take a look
> > at Iran if you want an
> > example. Religous differences are one of the reasons
> > Bin Laden was not a fan
> > of Iraq.
> >
> > Bill the VC may had started with bamboo spears but
> > they were well armed by
> > the USSR and China. I do agree that we have created
> > a mess in Iraq with no
> > easy solutions. Knee jerk reactions usually have a
> > bad ending. Terror
> > tactics are designed to create terror. Scared and
> > angry people make poor
> > decisions. In our case the country was attacked by
> > Saudi Arabian terrorists
> > so we attacked Iraq, Now the Chechnan (sic?)
> > terrorists have killed Russian
> > school children will Russia attack Iran?
> >
> > And what about the Kurds? Why do they all hate the
> > Kurds? There are no easy
> > answers.
> >
> > Wally
> >
> > >From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals
> > >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:37:52 -0400
> > >
> > >Brad,
> > >
> > >What are you talking about?:
> > >
> > >"The defeat of radical Islam is our goal. Iraq is
> > but one battle."
> > >
> > >Iraq wasn't a radical Islamic state, it was
> > secular, and we spent a lot of
> > >money on Saddam Hussein to keep it that way.
> > Granted he was not a nice
> > >man, but by overthrowing him we have created a
> > radical Islamic state--just
> > >the opposite of what you state as "our" goal.
> > >
> > >If we let the Iraqis vote, the radical Islamists
> > win.  If we don't let them
> > >vote, we create a civil war that will determine who
> > gets the oil and then
> > >they will create 1 or more radical Islamic states.
> > >
> > >All of this costs us a fortune in people and
> > taxpayer dollars.  It's a
> > >lose-lose-lose-lose.  I can't see a winning
> > scenario, can you?
> > >
> > >We can't afford any more battles like this one, and
> > no matter who wins the
> > >election in the United States we're eventually
> > going to head back to
> > >isolationism for a generation to make sure there
> > are no more battles like
> > >this one.  I don't think that's right either, but I
> > can't see any other
> > >realistic scenario, can you?
> > >
> > >We are running out of soldiers, plain and simple.
> > This country is not
> > >going to go for a Vietnam era style draft, and
> > planeloads full of body
> > >bags.
> > >
> > >The population of South Vietnam was substantially
> > less than the current
> > >population of Iraq.  They started by fighting us
> > with sharpened bamboo
> > >sticks.  We were never able to "pacify" or
> > "Vietnamize" that country--even
> > >though we inserted 4 times as many troops as we now
> > have in Iraq.
> > >
> > >We are not going to do that again, and we are not
> > going to do this again.
> > >The only question is how will we extricate
> > ourselves from the current mess
> > >with the least long term damage.  No matter how you
> > slice it, the least
> > >long term damage is going to be a lot of damage.
> > >
> > >Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: brad haslett
> > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > >Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:49 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Goals
> > >
> > >
> > >Bob,
> > >
> > >After posting early this morning,  I began
> > searching
> > >through my library for "Sleeping With the Devil:How
> > >Washington Sold Our Soul for Crude", by Robert Baer
> > >for a reference.  It seems this book has developed
> > >"feet", or perhaps it was loaned, or my 2 1/2 year
> > old
> > >re-shelved it for me.  Anyway, I stumbled across a
> > >different  book that is a collection of essays
> > written
> > >shortly after 9/11.  The author of "An Autum of
> > War",
> > >Victor Hanson, is a professor of Classical Studies
> > at
> > >California State University - Fresno.  Professor
> > >Hanson stated in an essay written December 2001
> > what I
> > >think is the essense of my argument supporting the
> > war
> > >in Iraq.
> > >
> > >"Nearly all the promised utopias of the
> > past-facism,
> > >communism, third-world liberationist kleptocracy,
> > and
> > >Islamic theocracy-have now had their day and failed
> > >miserably before the eyes of billions.  A
> > Westernized
> > >and secular minority in the Middle East knows that
> > the
> > >future lies only with freedom and democracy.  While
> > >hostile in a variety of ways to America, it is
> > perhaps
> > >still the only hope of millions.  America must
> > stand
> > >ready to go to war with any country of the region
> > that
> > >kills our citizens, and stand aloof from all the
> > >illegitimate governments of the Middle East
> > Bloc..."
> > >
> > >As President Bush stated last week to the UN, " For
> > >too long, many nations, including my own,
> > tolerated,
> >
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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