[Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
Wally Buck
tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Sat Aug 27 13:27:06 EDT 2005
Bill, I have no idea what you are talking about? I thought your crazy scheme
had Stan selling the Chinese parts? Are you still talking about cushions?
Anne and others gave the GB cushions 2 thumbs up. I have already gotten
pricing from Stan and I am considering purchase verse homemade. Are you
suggesting that one should not make their own replacement cushions.....Are
you the riddler? :-) Serioulsy Bill you have lost me.
Stan and GB have no worries from me. Not much chance i will be making R22
cushions for resale.
Wally
>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:04:30 -0400
>
>Wally,
>
>I interpreted Stan's Lament as a plea to get something for his troubles
>(read "intellectual property"). When it came to selling the boat off-list,
>everyone said sure, they thought other people should send Stan 5%.
>
>What about copying his designs? Should Stan get 5% of his list price when
>people use his designs as a template and make them for themselves?
>
>I think we know each other well enough for you to know I do not intend this
>as a personal attack on you. (Nor did I intend to attack Todd, Lou, Roger,
>Alan, or any of the other people on this list who have used Stan's designs
>as a template and not compensated Stan.)
>
>I ask you this question as an honest inquiry to a lament posted by Stan,
>and I ask you to think about it.
>
>This is not an easy questions, and I am not "Mr. Clean" on this issue. I
>steal intellectual property from others--just not from Stan.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>Wally Buck wrote:
>
>>Bill, Thanks for your response. To clarify. I have cushions in cockpit now
>>but they are shot. I do like the folding chairs but I would rather put
>>that money toward new cushions.
>>
>>I was wondering if you added all of these other seating devices because
>>the cushions were uncomfortable. Your first description of seating
>>arrangements didn't mention comfort of cockpit cushions alone. Your
>>solution would have me purchasing 2 Captains Chairs, 2 bean bag chairs,
>>and 2 folding chairs from West along with all new cockpit cushions. That
>>is not an option.
>>
>>i like an uncluttered cockpit as well as uncluttered cabin. Anne says her
>>GB cushions are comfortable so that answered my question. :-)
>>
>>Wally
>>
>>Lawn is mowed - NOW I am off to lake!
>>
>>
>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
>>>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:49:00 -0400
>>>
>>>Wally,
>>>
>>>I guess I never even considered sailing without cushions on the
>>>fiberglass benches. Even though I frequently sail single handed, and
>>>always sail from Captain's Seats, I always put out Stan's cushions--every
>>>single time. They are part of the boat, as far as I'm concerned. I
>>>think the proportions of everything are better for sailing when the
>>>cushions are in place. Also, as noted previously, I don't bang myself up
>>>as much with the cushions protecting me from harder surfaces.
>>>
>>>I only sit on the cushions when hove-to, or at anchor, and I guess they
>>>are comfortable, enough. But they are not as comfortable as the cushions
>>>with bean bag chairs on top of them, or the cushions with "Elton's"
>>>folding seats on top of them. (I never put the bean bag chairs or
>>>folding seats directly on the fiberglass benches--that is not as
>>>comfortable as Stan's cushions alone.)
>>>
>>>When guests come aboard my boat they always marvel at how comfortable
>>>they all are--not just the person who grabs the other Captain's seat. My
>>>boat has 6 comfortable seats while sailing. They are all based on
>>>putting Stan's cockpit cushions over the hard benches. Since I sail the
>>>boat upright, people do not shift back and forth every time I tack. They
>>>find a comfortable seat, and stay in it for the entire ride.
>>>
>>>My cockpit, with Stan's cushions and my additional seats, is more
>>>comfortable for all of the passengers and crew than any other boat I've
>>>ever been in.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>Wally Buck wrote:
>>>
>>>>I would be using Stan's cockpit cushions for seating. Are they
>>>>confortable?
>>>>
>>>>Wally
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
>>>>>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:37:29 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>Wally,
>>>>>
>>>>>I have Stan's cockpit cushions. I almost never sit directly on them.
>>>>>I generally sit in a captain's chair, with my feet on the cushions. I
>>>>>also have 2 folding seats (available from West for around $50), and 2
>>>>>beanbag chairs purchased from the beanbag lady at a boat show for
>>>>>around $75 each. All 6 seats can be comfortably deployed
>>>>>simultaneously. Each seat is more comfortable than any seat that comes
>>>>>standard in any sailboat I've ever been on.
>>>>>
>>>>>Stan's cushions fit perfectly, and have proved very durable. They are
>>>>>7 years old and still look brand new. I store them (along with all
>>>>>the other seats) on the settee when not in use. I put them out
>>>>>immediately every time I go on board. This takes around 14 seconds. I
>>>>>like them for kneeling when I am pulling in anchors or putting out
>>>>>fenders. Every now and again I kneel to do something after I have put
>>>>>away the cushions. Boy those seats are hard!
>>>>>
>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bill, It is hard to guess what I would want to spend. You need to
>>>>>>determine production and shipping costs. From there add the desired
>>>>>>mark up. That is the price. I am sure GB does not want to carry large
>>>>>>cost for inventory. I would suspect that prices could be quoted for
>>>>>>different sizes. Get quotes for 5, 10 25, each. I have no idea who to
>>>>>>go to for "quotes" in China but it sounds like there might be folks on
>>>>>>this list that do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Initially I would want new cockpit cushions with fill in. Also cabin
>>>>>>cushions. I am considering doing this myself. I am also getting price
>>>>>>locally. One drawbck to doing them myself is the most likely will look
>>>>>>like crap. Having them done locally means I can test foam and not pay
>>>>>>shipping. Ordering from GB means they will fit right but I don't want
>>>>>>standard foam. In the cabin I want to go with 3 inches of foam with 1
>>>>>>inch of memory foam glued on top side. I have seen cushions made this
>>>>>>way and they are great for sleeping and sitting. I am still working on
>>>>>>best foam for cockpit (with fill in).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wally
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>>>>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:02:44 -0400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wally,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Can you put numbers on your desires? I mean this quite seriously. I
>>>>>>>know you use your boat, and I know you want to be fair to Stan. At
>>>>>>>what price would you buy various items from Stan? Which items would
>>>>>>>you be most interested in? What would you be willing to pay? You
>>>>>>>will not be held to any of this--it is just part of an exercise to
>>>>>>>see if what we all want can be done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If you are asking me if I have a problem purchasing Chinese made
>>>>>>>>boat parts from Stan ....If I place my order and send payment to
>>>>>>>>Stan the source doesn't concern me too much. I would prefer to buy
>>>>>>>>"USA" but I have owned many imported cars.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You also asked if price is holding me back from purchasing boat
>>>>>>>>goodies from GB. The answer is yes. I would love to have new cabin
>>>>>>>>cushions, new cockpit cushions, cokcpit fill-in cushions, pop-top
>>>>>>>>enclosure, bimini. The boom room really doesn't interest me. We
>>>>>>>>overnight quite a bit. If it is stormy we go in cabin. If it is nice
>>>>>>>>we like the view from cockpit. We also swim and fish. I am trying
>>>>>>>>to decide if I should spend the money on my R22 or perhaps sell and
>>>>>>>>use the cash from all of those upgrades for .......
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I forgot, add the battened IMF to my wish list as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Wally
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>To: R22 List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>>>>>>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:21:37 -0400
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Brad Haslett emailed me off-list regarding our discussion of boom
>>>>>>>>>rooms, etc. which he has been following while vacationing in China.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Brad asked if anyone would have an interest in his exploring
>>>>>>>>>Chinese manufacture of Boom Rooms, Sails, Pop-Top Enclosures,
>>>>>>>>>Cockpit and Cabin Cushions, Cockpit Fill in Boards, -- all the
>>>>>>>>>little stuff the Chinese can make for a fraction of what it costs
>>>>>>>>>to manufacture in the US.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have not asked Stan about this, and I don't think Brad has
>>>>>>>>>either, however it goes without saying that if Stan doesn't like
>>>>>>>>>the idea, Brad is not going to do it. Stan would make money on
>>>>>>>>>every item made in China, and whatever he says is his cut, that's
>>>>>>>>>what he'll get. There will be no negotiation on this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>But before he even begins the project, Brad wants to know how the
>>>>>>>>>ultimate consumers feel about this idea. If Brad can set up
>>>>>>>>>manufacturing in China with Stan's approval, would Rhodes owners
>>>>>>>>>buy the Chinese made products?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Stan would have to provide the original patterns and
>>>>>>>>>specifications, but that is all Stan would have to do. Brad
>>>>>>>>>believes he can set up a reliable manufacturing operation in China
>>>>>>>>>that will produce any of these products to Stan's satisfaction at a
>>>>>>>>>lower cost than Stan can get them produced in the US.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>5 of us indicated an interest in Boom Rooms. Me, Chris, Dave,
>>>>>>>>>Bruce, and maybe Bob. (Did I miss anyone?) I would be willing to
>>>>>>>>>be the guinea pig on this. How do the rest of you feel? Bob, if we
>>>>>>>>>could bring the price down, at what price would you be a player?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What about people who want Pop Top Enclosures, or Battened IMF
>>>>>>>>>sails, or cockpit fill in cushions? Is there a price for these
>>>>>>>>>items that would prompt you to take money out of your pocket and
>>>>>>>>>put it on the table?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Look at Stan's options prices on his web site
>>>>>>>>>(http://www.rhodes22.com/super_options.html). Is there something
>>>>>>>>>you would actually buy if the price were lower? If so, what would
>>>>>>>>>the price have to be?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Brad is returning to the US shortly, and doesn't have much time to
>>>>>>>>>see if he can set up something like this. If you think this is a
>>>>>>>>>terrible idea, please speak up quickly so we all know where we
>>>>>>>>>stand.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I think this is an interesting idea if Brad can actually do it. It
>>>>>>>>>is something we can all do to put more money in Stan's pocket right
>>>>>>>>>away, while buying parts for our boats at a lower cost. It's a
>>>>>>>>>win-win...if Brad can pull it off.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Please note. Brad is a commercial airline pilot who no longer owns
>>>>>>>>>a Rhodes 22. There is nothing in this deal for him. He will
>>>>>>>>>always make more money flying an airplane than getting involved in
>>>>>>>>>a crazy sailboat spare parts Chinese manufacturing scheme. He just
>>>>>>>>>happens to be in China right now, saw Stan's Lament, and asked if
>>>>>>>>>there was anything he could do to help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
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