[Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions

Bill Effros bill at effros.com
Sat Aug 27 13:04:30 EDT 2005


Wally,

I interpreted Stan's Lament as a plea to get something for his troubles 
(read "intellectual property").  When it came to selling the boat 
off-list, everyone said sure, they thought other people should send Stan 5%.

What about copying his designs?  Should Stan get 5% of his list price 
when people use his designs as a template and make them for themselves?

I think we know each other well enough for you to know I do not intend 
this as a personal attack on you.  (Nor did I intend to attack Todd, 
Lou, Roger, Alan, or any of the other people on this list who have used 
Stan's designs as a template and not compensated Stan.)

I ask you this question as an honest inquiry to a lament posted by Stan, 
and I ask you to think about it.

This is not an easy questions, and I am not "Mr. Clean" on this issue.  
I steal intellectual property from others--just not from Stan.

Bill Effros

Wally Buck wrote:

> Bill, Thanks for your response. To clarify. I have cushions in cockpit 
> now but they are shot. I do like the folding chairs but I would rather 
> put that money toward new cushions.
>
> I was wondering if you added all of these other seating devices 
> because the cushions were uncomfortable. Your first description of 
> seating arrangements didn't mention comfort of cockpit cushions alone. 
> Your solution would have me purchasing 2 Captains Chairs, 2 bean bag 
> chairs, and 2 folding chairs from West along with all new cockpit 
> cushions. That is not an option.
>
> i like an uncluttered cockpit as well as uncluttered cabin. Anne says 
> her GB cushions are comfortable so that answered my question. :-)
>
> Wally
>
> Lawn is mowed - NOW I am off to lake!
>
>
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
>> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:49:00 -0400
>>
>> Wally,
>>
>> I guess I never even considered sailing without cushions on the 
>> fiberglass benches.  Even though I frequently sail single handed, and 
>> always sail from Captain's Seats, I always put out Stan's 
>> cushions--every single time.  They are part of the boat, as far as 
>> I'm concerned.  I think the proportions of everything are better for 
>> sailing when the cushions are in place.  Also, as noted previously, I 
>> don't bang myself up as much with the cushions protecting me from 
>> harder surfaces.
>>
>> I only sit on the cushions when hove-to, or at anchor, and I guess 
>> they are comfortable, enough.  But they are not as comfortable as the 
>> cushions with bean bag chairs on top of them, or the cushions with 
>> "Elton's" folding seats on top of them.  (I never put the bean bag 
>> chairs or folding seats directly on the fiberglass benches--that is 
>> not as comfortable as Stan's cushions alone.)
>>
>> When guests come aboard my boat they always marvel at how comfortable 
>> they all are--not just the person who grabs the other Captain's 
>> seat.  My boat has 6 comfortable seats while sailing.  They are all 
>> based on putting Stan's cockpit cushions over the hard benches.  
>> Since I sail the boat upright, people do not shift back and forth 
>> every time I tack.  They find a comfortable seat, and stay in it for 
>> the entire ride.
>>
>> My cockpit, with Stan's cushions and my additional seats, is more 
>> comfortable for all of the passengers and crew than any other boat 
>> I've ever been in.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>
>>> I would be using Stan's cockpit cushions for seating. Are they 
>>> confortable?
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Cockpit Cushions
>>>> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:37:29 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Wally,
>>>>
>>>> I have Stan's cockpit cushions.  I almost never sit directly on 
>>>> them.  I generally sit in a captain's chair, with my feet on the 
>>>> cushions.  I also have 2 folding seats (available from West for 
>>>> around $50), and 2 beanbag chairs purchased from the beanbag lady 
>>>> at a boat show for around $75 each.  All 6 seats can be comfortably 
>>>> deployed simultaneously.  Each seat is more comfortable than any 
>>>> seat that comes standard in any sailboat I've ever been on.
>>>>
>>>> Stan's cushions fit perfectly, and have proved very durable.  They 
>>>> are 7 years old and still look brand new.  I store them  (along 
>>>> with all the other seats) on the settee when not in use.  I put 
>>>> them out immediately every time I go on board.  This takes around 
>>>> 14 seconds.  I like them for kneeling when I am pulling in anchors 
>>>> or putting out fenders.  Every now and again I kneel to do 
>>>> something after I have put away the cushions.  Boy those seats are 
>>>> hard!
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bill, It is hard to guess what I would want to spend. You need to 
>>>>> determine production and shipping costs. From there add the 
>>>>> desired mark up. That is the price. I am sure GB does not want to 
>>>>> carry large cost for inventory. I would suspect that prices could 
>>>>> be quoted for different sizes. Get quotes for 5, 10 25, each.  I 
>>>>> have no idea who to go to for "quotes" in China but it sounds like 
>>>>> there might be folks on this list that do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Initially I would want new cockpit cushions with fill in. Also 
>>>>> cabin cushions. I am considering doing this myself. I am also 
>>>>> getting price locally. One drawbck to doing them myself is the 
>>>>> most likely will look like crap. Having them done locally means I 
>>>>> can test foam and not pay shipping. Ordering from GB means they 
>>>>> will fit right but I don't want standard foam. In the cabin I want 
>>>>> to go with 3 inches of foam with 1 inch of memory foam glued on 
>>>>> top side. I have seen cushions made this way and they are great 
>>>>> for sleeping and sitting. I am still working on best foam for 
>>>>> cockpit (with fill in).
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:02:44 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you put numbers on your desires?  I mean this quite 
>>>>>> seriously.  I know you use your boat, and I know you want to be 
>>>>>> fair to Stan.  At what price would you buy various items from 
>>>>>> Stan?  Which items would you be most interested in?  What would 
>>>>>> you be willing to pay?  You will not be held to any of this--it 
>>>>>> is just part of an exercise to see if what we all want can be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are asking me if I have a problem purchasing Chinese made 
>>>>>>> boat parts from Stan ....If I place my order and send payment to 
>>>>>>> Stan the source doesn't concern me too much. I would prefer to 
>>>>>>> buy "USA" but I have owned many imported cars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You also asked if price is holding me back from purchasing boat 
>>>>>>> goodies from GB. The answer is yes. I would love to have new 
>>>>>>> cabin cushions, new cockpit cushions, cokcpit fill-in cushions, 
>>>>>>> pop-top enclosure, bimini. The boom room really doesn't interest 
>>>>>>> me. We overnight quite a bit. If it is stormy we go in cabin. If 
>>>>>>> it is nice we like the view from cockpit. We also swim and 
>>>>>>> fish.  I am trying to decide if I should spend the money on my 
>>>>>>> R22 or perhaps sell and use the cash from all of those upgrades 
>>>>>>> for .......
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I forgot, add the battened IMF to my wish  list as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> To: R22 List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:21:37 -0400
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett emailed me off-list regarding our discussion of 
>>>>>>>> boom rooms, etc. which he has been following while vacationing 
>>>>>>>> in China.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad asked if anyone would have an interest in his exploring 
>>>>>>>> Chinese manufacture of Boom Rooms, Sails, Pop-Top Enclosures, 
>>>>>>>> Cockpit and Cabin Cushions, Cockpit Fill in Boards, -- all the 
>>>>>>>> little stuff the Chinese can make for a fraction of what it 
>>>>>>>> costs to manufacture in the US.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have not asked Stan about this, and I don't think Brad has 
>>>>>>>> either, however it goes without saying that if Stan doesn't 
>>>>>>>> like the idea, Brad is not going to do it.  Stan would make 
>>>>>>>> money on every item made in China, and whatever he says is his 
>>>>>>>> cut, that's what he'll get.  There will be no negotiation on this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But before he even begins the project, Brad wants to know how 
>>>>>>>> the ultimate consumers feel about this idea.  If Brad can set 
>>>>>>>> up manufacturing in China with Stan's approval, would Rhodes 
>>>>>>>> owners buy the Chinese made products?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stan would have to provide the original patterns and 
>>>>>>>> specifications, but that is all Stan would have to do.  Brad 
>>>>>>>> believes he can set up a reliable manufacturing operation in 
>>>>>>>> China that will produce any of these products to Stan's 
>>>>>>>> satisfaction at a lower cost than Stan can get them produced in 
>>>>>>>> the US.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5 of us indicated an interest in Boom Rooms.  Me, Chris, Dave, 
>>>>>>>> Bruce, and maybe Bob.  (Did I miss anyone?)  I would be willing 
>>>>>>>> to be the guinea pig on this. How do the rest of you feel?  
>>>>>>>> Bob, if we could bring the price down, at what price would you 
>>>>>>>> be a player?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What about people who want Pop Top Enclosures, or Battened IMF 
>>>>>>>> sails, or cockpit fill in cushions?  Is there a price for these 
>>>>>>>> items that would prompt you to take money out of your pocket 
>>>>>>>> and put it on the table?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at Stan's options prices on his web site 
>>>>>>>> (http://www.rhodes22.com/super_options.html).  Is there 
>>>>>>>> something you would actually buy if the price were lower?  If 
>>>>>>>> so, what would the price have to be?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad is returning to the US shortly, and doesn't have much time 
>>>>>>>> to see if he can set up something like this.  If you think this 
>>>>>>>> is a terrible idea, please speak up quickly so we all know 
>>>>>>>> where we stand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think this is an interesting idea if Brad can actually do 
>>>>>>>> it.  It is something we can all do to put more money in Stan's 
>>>>>>>> pocket right away, while buying parts for our boats at a lower 
>>>>>>>> cost.  It's a win-win...if Brad can pull it off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please note.  Brad is a commercial airline pilot who no longer 
>>>>>>>> owns a Rhodes 22.  There is nothing in this deal for him.  He 
>>>>>>>> will always make more money flying an airplane than getting 
>>>>>>>> involved in a crazy sailboat spare parts Chinese manufacturing 
>>>>>>>> scheme.  He just happens to be in China right now, saw Stan's 
>>>>>>>> Lament, and asked if there was anything he could do to help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
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